Ice Dancing PCS Rules 2011-2012 | Golden Skate

Ice Dancing PCS Rules 2011-2012

dorispulaski

Wicked Yankee Girl
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Country
United-States
After reading all the different comments in the FD and SD threads for GPF, and also the thread where Maxim Trankov, long time pairs competitor, has trouble understanding his score, I thought it would be interesting to see whether I could put together a thread that would help all of us get a better feel for the scoring system, at least for Ice Dance. Even Scott Moir is slightly misinformed: nothing in PCS grades who is the best artist-the words artistry, and artistic are not mentioned (although some of the graded characteristics are also characteristics of artistry, some are not, and the word "artistic" is used to help define the word finesse).

I'm sorry to say, that I really don't follow the singles with the same fervor that I save for Ice Dance, so I'm going to do Ice Dance Rules. I hope some one of the singles' experts here will do the same for singles.

The recent Grand Prix Final was a superb chance to compare how a single panel of judges and a single tech panel graded both juniors and seniors, so that a larger range of scores can be examined. Furthermore, all the competitors' programs are on youtube.

So here we go. I hope you enjoy it. Feel free to chime in, because I'm just a fan, not a real expert. However, I would like to assume that the judges are experts!

It's Not Yer Father's Artistic Mark Any More: PCS in Ice Dance.

There are five categories. The first, and perhaps most important, is Skating Skills. People complain that all 5 program components are indexed off skating skills, and that skating skills is overwhelmingly measured by speed, power, and acceleration, even though the description of Skating Skills includes a lot more than just "Power/energy and acceleration". As an armchair judge, you are hampered in judging speed. However, if you concentrate a bit on how much the advertisements on the boards are blurring, when the skaters are skating straight down the ice and not at an angle to the boards, you will be able to make a decent guess about which teams are the fastest.

Skating Skills, and the other PCS components are judged by the judges after they have viewed the entire program.

Furthermore, you should remember that during the program, the judges have had to be concentrated more on the elements than anything else, because that is what they have been grading.

Here's what's included in Skating Skills:



Skating Skills, source Rule 611 b, i, ISU Communication 1677

Definition:

Overall Skating quality: edge control and flow over the ice surface demonstrated by a command of the skating
vocabulary (edges, steps, turns etc.), the clarity of technique and the use of effortless power to accelerate and
vary speed;
Criteria:
  • Balance, rhythmic knee action and precision of foot placement
  • Flow and effortless glide [V&M's strongest point]
  • Cleanness and sureness of deep edges, steps and turns
  • Power/energy and acceleration [D&W's strongest point]
  • Mastery of multi-directional skating
  • Mastery of one foot skating
  • Equal mastery of technique by both partners shown in unison

To qualify for Skating Skills between 9.0 and 10.0 [OUTSTANDING] as both D&W and V&M did, you need

  • deep, quiet, sure, seemingly effortless edges
  • deep/fluid knee action
  • elegant and precise steps/turns
  • seamless use of all directions
  • effortless acceleration
  • extensive skill range for both

The Shibutanis fell near to this range.

To qualify for Skating Skills between 7.0 and 7.75 [VERY GOOD], you need
  • strong, sure, confident edges
  • strong, flexible knee action
  • polished & clean steps/turns
  • very good use of multi directions
  • ability to accelerate easily
  • wide skill range 75% of time for both


This is the range that Zhulin seems to have claimed the Shibutanis deserved.

To qualify for Skating Skills between 4.0 and 4.75 [AVERAGE], you need:
  • shallow edges with variable edge quality and knee action
  • average range of steps/turns, multidirectional 50% of time
  • skill level similar abilities
  • consistent speed and flow 50% of time


To appreciate what "Skating Skills" actually grades, I thought it might be interesting to dig up some examples of teams that did not make the JGPF or the GPF. I included only one extra competition (Tailinn), so that it would minimize the number of judge panels involved.

Here's a program with 2.61 Skating Skills
Hanno Tammo & Geido Kapp of Estonia
21st at JGP Tailinn in the FD
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kp6MsCXF-m8

Here's a program with 3.32 Skating Skills
Natalia JANCOSEK / Petr SEKNICKA of Slovakia
17th at JGP Tailin in the FD
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=it3kPaXmChI

Here's a program with 4.64 Skating Skills:
Kalisak & Kalisak of Poland
10th at JGP Tailinn in the FD
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dDkpjoayHXk

Here's a program with 5.43 Skating Skills
Kaitlin HAWAYEK & Michael BRAMANTE of USA
8th at JGP Tailinn in the FD
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7VogSPyM6wU

========================================================
The following teams were at the JGPF. The Panel of judges is exactly the same as the panel of judges for the Senior GPF
Anastasi Galyeta & Alexei Shumski of Ukraine, Skating Skills 6.18
5th in the FD at the JGPF
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPO9jOHLTts

Victoria Sinitsina & Ruslan Zhiganshin of Russia, Skating Skills 7.61
1st in the FD at the JGPF
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96WOkIQTmdA

Now here are the Senior Grand Prix teams' free dances, arranged in increasing order of their skating skills:
Please watch them as if you are only comparing skating skills. You might even try turning off the sound, since skating skills does not include any references to the music.

S&S [Sun Valley Serenade soundtrack] 7.93
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=taTL0BGnFos
B&S {Faust] 8.04
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6B2QopWoSdA
W&P [Je suis malade] 8.32
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DW_2GiYw3V4
P&B [The Pharoah & his Mummy] 8.79
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M69Rhf7DsFA
D&W [Die Fledermaus] 9.57
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sj2k6cfD-cc
V&M [Funny Face] 9.61
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJXhEkhO1NU

So where would you place the Shibutani's?
 
Joined
Mar 14, 2006
Taking a step back - Doris, why are you giving so much attention to Zhulin's opinion as the Shibs didn't in fact get such low marks? Do you think his influence could cause them to get dumped by the judges in the future?

But as always, thank you for your valiant efforts to build up an educated audience (and group of posters) for ice dance! You deserve an award!
 

jcoates

Medalist
Joined
Mar 3, 2006
Thanks once again Doris for your diligent, comprehensive and sober work to educate us about ice dance. It's invaluable.
 

dorispulaski

Wicked Yankee Girl
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Country
United-States
TRANSITIONS AND LINKING MOVEMENTS

You know those things the judges were kind of not looking at while grading the elements? Well now they are supposed to give a grade for them.

In ice dance, Transitions & Linking Movements are the highest weighted PCS component, with a weight of 1.75. Skating Skills are weighted at 1.25, and the other 3 components are weighted at 1.0, so Transitions is a really big deal for dancers.


Transitions and Linking Movements Source Rule 611 b, ISU Communication 1677
Definition:
The varied and or intricate footwork, positions, movements and holds that link all elements and constitute the
distinct technical content of the dance;

Criteria:
• Variety
• Difficulty
• Intricacy
• Quality
• Balance of workload between partners
Variety of holds (not excessive side by side and hand in hand)

To qualify for a Transitions & Linking Movements mark between 9.00 and 10.00 [OUTSTANDING]
  • difficult, intriguing, varied network of edges, steps, turns, holds for both
  • one move flows seamlessly into the next
  • creative pattern and lobes
  • creative linking of Pattern Dance Elements and rest of the dance (SD): 100%

To qualify for a Transitions and linking steps mark of between 7.0 and 7.5 [VERY GOOD]
  • variety and complexity of pattern/steps/turns/holds for both
  • fluid and intentional movements from one move to another
  • varied use of holds with face to face positions
  • creative linking of Pattern Dance Elements and rest of the dance (SD): 100%


To qualify for a Transitions & Linking Movements mark between 4.0 and 4.75 [AVERAGE]

  • an equal proportion of simplicity and difficulty
  • one partner has some sections with simple workload
  • varied use of holds with several face to face positions
  • creative linking of Pattern Dance Elements and rest of the dance (SD): 50%

Note that the Transitions and Linking Footwork we are discussing is not what the skaters could do, but what they actually did do, on the day.

In fact, this was the PCS category where D&W did the best. The teams finish in the same order, as they did for skating skills, other than reversing the order of V&M and D&W. Note that a waltz fits more comfortably into the requirements for transitions and linking steps than a tap dance-staccato steps with the partners not in hold at all do not count much for transitions, however, difficult they are, at least if the judges follow the rules. Face to face holds with long gliding edges are preferred, apparently.

Note that the Shibutani's transition & linking movements score is significantly lower than their skating skills mark. The judges obviously found their program to be rather lacking in transitions.


And here's the grading of Transitions & Linking Footwork at the GPF:


6 S&S Sun Valley Serenade 7.68
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=taTL0BGnFos
5 B&S Faust 7.86
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6B2QopWoSdA
4 W&P Je suis Malade 8.14
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DW_2GiYw3V4
3 P&B The Pharoah and His Mummy 8.54
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M69Rhf7DsFA
2 V&M Funny Face 9.36
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJXhEkhO1NU
1 D&W Die Fledermaus 9.50
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sj2k6cfD-cc

And here's some transitions grades from the JGPF
Galyeta & Shumski had the lowest. (5.82)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPO9jOHLTts

Sinitsina & Zhiganshin had the highest. (7.25)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96WOkIQTmdA

Again, I suggest watching with the sound turned off. Watch for hand to hand skating, separations, posing sections where the skaters are performing but not skating, areas where the skaters are running around on flat edges. All the time they spend doing that does not significantly build their transition score.

As in singles, although it is not as explicit as I would wish, watch for interesting movements that lead into and out of elements. Those will perhaps influence the transition score positively.

The effect should be to weave the elements together with the non element transitions into a seamless whole.
 

dorispulaski

Wicked Yankee Girl
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Country
United-States
I'm focusing on the Shibutanis because they have received severe criticism from some experts, but also significant praise from others.

The rest of the arguing is whether D&W and V&M should be ahead. The judges don't seem to agree, so the argument devolves into skating's version of the "Great Taste" "Less Filling" beer commercial.

I think it leaves fans not very informed. It's like getting into an argument about which way is "up" or "down" on a flat road.

There is some room for actually applying the rules in the case of the Shibs, rather than avoiding applying the rules, as in the case of Plush & transitions or Evan and his skiddy axel, or just not knowing what to do, like the judges and D&W and V&M (IMO, because both teams are magnificent in different ways).
 

cjsk8fan

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 11, 2005
I just notice at least one thing, however minor, D/W out twizzle everyone. Their speed is amazing.
 

Tex

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 7, 2006
Wow, this is awesome!!! Thanks Dorispulaski for providing us with this information. It's extremely helpful!
 

shan

Rinkside
Joined
Nov 13, 2005
Since I first saw the video from Finlandia, Funny Face has come across as lacking in difficulty. For me, there's too much posing, side by side choreography. V/M fans endlessly argue that they just make it look too easy, that it is a very difficult program. Can someone with more of a clue than me, comment?
 

jcoates

Medalist
Joined
Mar 3, 2006
I think the complaints about the program lacking difficulty should be taken with a grain of salt and should be examined in context. Objectively, the program is far more difficult than any on the circuit this season except D/W's. It has very good speed, variety of tempo and rhythm, difficult (if somewhat awkwardly performed) lifts and good transitions. However when you compare it to both D/W's program and what the rules explicitly ask for, then there is room for just enough nitpicking to make a difference Relative to D/W, V/M have more stops, rests and posing sections. IMO, this should definitely affect their transitions mark and possibly their SS and CH marks. For a team of their caliber, there should be more continuous movement even in the rests and posing sections. On the other hand, D/W's program is a more natural fit for the current set of rules. It flows effortlessly. That is not to say that V/M can't pull ahead with a few well thought out tweaks to the areas I mentioned. If I know them, they will spend the next couple of weeks addressing those concerns and show up at nationals ready to take on the world. 4CC and Worlds will be tons of fun to watch.
 

icefan1005

Rinkside
Joined
Dec 18, 2011
idk I think the stops help with the characterization of Funny Face. Their FDs are very different so you can't really compare. One is music-driven while the other is character-driven.
 

jcoates

Medalist
Joined
Mar 3, 2006
^Yes but that is where people can muddy the waters when it comes to evaluating programs. Characterization is great and I agree that the pauses do aid the creation of an effective mood. But that is a separate thing entirely from the difficulty of the program. It's part of why I get so irritated at times when fans go on and on about the fantastic eye contact and connection V/M have. Yes it's true it exists and that it is superior to other teams, but ice dancers don't skate with their eyes or longing glances. Fans are too often willing to equate effective communication of mood with difficulty. As Doris pointed out at the beginning of the thread, the idea of so called artistry is a hold-over from 6.0. The word carries great emotional weight with fans and it neatly wraps up a particular concept of skating into one word. But the truth is, it no longer applies in the same sense to skating. Like it or not, but it is true. PCS now assesses distinct categories which all aim to see how any such design of a program works to actually enhance the skating itself as a primary goal. Mood, character, etc. are really secondary unless the skating itself is good. I'm not saying V/M's skating is not good. It's superb. It's just that I believe the system calls for more of it from them, rather than more posing.

BTW, I'll bet you that even though the rules may not assess a specific penalty for the amount of posing, the judges are likely still timing every pause in each program to help in grading PCS.
 

icefan1005

Rinkside
Joined
Dec 18, 2011
There are pauses too in D/W's FD, but the music doesn't stop so it kind of hides it. OTOH, V/M's pauses in the program coincides with the change of music which definitely highlights the pauses in FF. I think this is why Marina said that FF has the more complicated choreography. They need to work on the pauses to make it flow better.
 
Joined
Aug 16, 2009
Thanks for the class in Skating Rules 101, Doris! I still don't think I'll be able to follow the judges' reasoning, but now I know how to apply the rules they use.

It makes me realize how hard it is to be a judge these days. You can't just decide you like something. You really have to look at every iota of the program. And what does this say about the demands of being a choreographer!
 

shan

Rinkside
Joined
Nov 13, 2005
I think the pauses in D/W's FD are never full stops (please correct me if I'm wrong) and they get right back into the flow of skating. V/M stop, pose, usually do some sort of movement while standing still and then get back in to skating.

Thank you for the explanations. I think that losing the FD and GPF could be the best thing for V/M as it will force them to reevaluate their programs. They are good imo, but could be great. (I'm particularly referring to the FD, I think everyone's SD is a lost cause.)
 

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 27, 2009
So I only looked at the programs for skating skills. I would say that the Shibs should have been ahead of B/S and closer to W/P. When you turn off the music and just look at their blades, it's quite the revelation. I feel that B/S's dramatic music in a way actually covers up their relatively shallow edges.

That said, I am impressed with the improvements of both W/P and P/B. I know it's been a long road for the both of them, but I was impressed with how much they both have grown technically over the years. I really think those two will vie for bronze this year. Just looking at their edge quality, it was cool to see how much effort they've put in just that area alone.

And the Shibs definitely do not deserve 4s, at least in skating quality. I would say they should have been in the low 8s at least.
 

dorispulaski

Wicked Yankee Girl
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Country
United-States
Exactly. And that's why I was going on about the Shibs, rather than about D&W and V&M for this part of the exercise.


Now, after I finish up figuring out how to write it up, I'll ask you to turn on the music and look for the timing (and interpretation). Hopefully, I'll finish later this evening.
 

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 27, 2009
Exactly. And that's why I was going on about the Shibs, rather than about D&W and V&M for this part of the exercise.


Now, after I finish up figuring out how to write it up, I'll ask you to turn on the music and look for the timing (and interpretation). Hopefully, I'll finish later this evening.

OK, so this time I looked for the points of timing and interpretation. But not only did I listen to the program with the music turned off, I actually listened to the program with the music playing from my iTunes (I happen to have those songs). And by having the music coming from my own speakers as opposed to whatever sound the video feed was feeding it, really made a difference. It made it much more obvious whether their timing was right. In fact, it really highlighted how much they improved in the middle section. The first few rounds of the FD, they seem quite rushed through the dance. In fact, if you look at GPF vs their Finlandia showing (I just played them side by side), you will actually they changed the choreo slightly to slow them down during that section.

I think the judges were about right -- though I think it's reasonable that they could have been in the low 8s.
 
Joined
Mar 14, 2006
I'm just beginning to wrestle with skating skills in Ice Dance, but this is a wonderful idea, Doris, and the way you've presented examples is so helpful. This definitely helps me see what I'm looking at better. For example, in the 21st place junior couple, I particularly note the mismatch in that he is much more skilled than she is, with especially gorgeous knee action. He should consider shopping around for a new partner, IMO. In the 17th place couple, I notice increased speed and better unison, they're a better matched couple, but I don't see any other notable reasons for a higher finish. I guess those two teams were pretty close.

On a non-technical level, it strikes me that the wording difference between the 9-level and 7-level skating skill descriptions is almost negligible. It's almost a sheer matter of style whether one calls great edges "effortless" or "confident," or acceleration skills "easy" or "effortless."

This is fun. It will take time to plow through, but thank you!
 

dorispulaski

Wicked Yankee Girl
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Country
United-States
Interpretation and Timing

Before we get into the nuts and bolts of interpretation & timing, I think we should take a look at how marking is done:

Marking Source Rule 611 b, ii

Program Components are evaluated by Judges, after the completion of a program, on a scale from 0.25 to 10 with increments of 0.25.
Points given by the Judges correspond to the following degrees of the Components:
<1 - very poor, 1 - poor, 2 - weak, 3 - fair, 4 - average, 5 - above average, 6 - good, 7 very good, 8 - superior,
9-10 - outstanding. Increments are used for evaluation of performances containing some features of one degree and some of the next degree.

and from Communication 1677
The mark for each Program Component is established at a certain degree according to the majority of Characteristics of Program Component which are met. This mark is further adjusted, if necessary, according to the Adjustments to Program Component.

I'm quoting these sections here, because Interpretation and Timing have a lot of different requirements. A team only has to have (at least as far as the documents say) the Majority of those sections to be outstanding to rank in the 9 to 10 region for that component. I wonder whether, in fact, the judges really do that; I can't tell you, I'm not a judge. However, if a judge thinks that a team does a poor job of showing "Relationahip between the partners reflecting the character and content of the music," they can still give a mark in the 9 to 10 range if the team has really good timing, picks appropriate music, and skates to that music, and if their motions are in character for the dance they have chosen.

So when you're judging, if you think a team is lacking in one single area, you may well give them a mark in the 9 to 10 range. As Mr. or Ms. or Mrs. Judge, you can give them 9, 9.25, 9.5, 9.75 or 10. You don't have any other choices, once you have decided they must be in the 9 to 10 region.



Interpretation and Timing Source Rule 611 b, i

Definition:
The personal and creative translation of the rhythm and/or character and content of the music to movement on ice.
Criteria:
  • Effortless and correct movement in time to the music (Timing)
  • Expression of the music’s rhythm, character, content and style
  • Use of finesse[sup]1[/sup] to reflect the nuances of the music
  • Relationship between the partners reflecting the character and content of the music
  • Correctness of the rhythm(s) and/or range of tempo of the music chosen (Short Dance)
  • Appropriateness of the Music (Short Dance & Free Dance)
  • Skating primarily to the rhythmic beat for Short Dance and keeping a good balance between skating to the
  • beat and melody in the Free Dance


[sup]1[/sup]Finesse is the Skaters’ refined, artful manipulation of nuances. Nuances are the personal artistic ways of bringing variations to the intensity, tempo, and dynamics of the music made by the composer and/or musicians.

To qualify for a mark of between 9.00 and 10.00 in Interpretation and Timing, a team should:

  • skaters/music/nuances as one
  • motivation from “heart”
  • wide range of inspired movements, gestures
  • skaters stay “in character” for the whole program
  • exceptional ability to relate as one and to reflect music, theme
  • superb expression of the music’s style and character
  • timing: 100% correct expression of Rhythms

To qualify for a mark of between 8.00 and 8.75 in Interpretation and Timing, a team should:

  • skaters and music meld
  • internal motivation
  • very good range of interesting movements/gestures
  • excellent ability to relate as one to reflect music/theme
  • excellent expression of the music’s style and character
  • timing: 100% correct
  • expression of Rhythms (SD): 100% correct

To qualify for a mark between 7.00 and 7.75 in Interpretation and Timing, a team should:
  • skating/music integrated
  • very good internal motivation
  • skaters stay “in character” for over 75% of program
  • very good partner relationship
  • very good expression of the music’s style and character
  • timing: 100% correct
  • expression of Rhythms (SD): 100% correct

I'm deliberately not listing marks lower than 7.00, because no team at the Senior GPF got any mark in Interpretation and Timing that was below that range from any judge. Note that all three ranges have 100% perfect timing as a listed requirement. However, if the other stuff is okay, the "Majority" of requirements are satisfied, and a judge may decide to use the range.



And finally how the teams were ranked for interpretation & timing: as three pairs of teams, tied or nearly tied.

1 D&W 9.82
1 V&M 9.82
3 P&B 8.89
4 W&P 8.68
5 B&S 8.11
6 S&S 7.96

I probably will talk about the character of dances later in this thread, but at this point, watch the skaters again with the music on. For the last two items, you may well have concentrated most on their feet; now listen to the music and concentrate on the whole effect a team is going for, and whether every beat of the music is reflected in their skating. Are the crescendos highlighted? Do they end when the music ends? Are they one with the music, always dancing, even through the elements? You may also evaluate whether they are both relating to each other as they relate to the music. Do not however get involved in the story they are telling, if you can manage. This PCS bullet is about the music and their relationship to it, and there is no requirement here for a storyline. When they stumble, if they do, of course that oneness with the music is slightly interrupted. Perfect technique is needed before you can give them a perfect mark in this component.

I'm redoing the links to be British Eurosport because they usually do a good job of synching the audio to the video as any. I'm always rather hesitant to comment on timing "live" on TV because often the feed is not well synched. When you're being an armchair critic, keep in mind that some of your experience of the dancing is shaped by the TV. You are less aware of differences in speed than the judges are, and your perception of timing may be skewed by the poor quality of the feed, and whether the station broadcasting the feed has done anything to fix problems with it. Cup of China had a particularly poor feed this year.

You might want to hit the pause button at the end of each performance so that your judicial deliberations are not affected by British Eurosport guys. Or not; your choice. (If you're looking for British Eurosport coverage, always check out frida340's channel on youtube. She is not up as quick as NikaQuest who posts the Russian feed, but it is often worth the wait.)

Davis & White Die Fledermaus 9.82
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TvF5bIfB2kA
Virtue & Moir Funny face 9.82
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jb-rY-i7K94&feature=related
Pechalat & Bourzat Pharoah & His Mummy 8.89
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbngjuptYiQ&feature=related
Weaver & Poje Je Suis Malade 8.68
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPPNxEayioc&feature=related
Bobrova & Soloviev Faust 8.11
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E6GRdWygP5Y&feature=related
Shibutani & Shibutani Sun Valley Serenade 7.96
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xdXfuwoAz0&feature=related
 
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