Ice Dancing PCS Rules 2011-2012 | Page 2 | Golden Skate

Ice Dancing PCS Rules 2011-2012

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 27, 2009
Before we get into the nuts and bolts of interpretation & timing, I think we should take a look at how marking is done:

Marking Source Rule 611 b, ii



and from Communication 1677


I'm quoting these sections here, because Interpretation and Timing have a lot of different requirements. A team only has to have (at least as far as the documents say) the Majority of those sections to be outstanding to rank in the 9 to 10 region for that component. I wonder whether, in fact, the judges really do that; I can't tell you, I'm not a judge. However, if a judge thinks that a team does a poor job of showing "Relationahip between the partners reflecting the character and content of the music," they can still give a mark in the 9 to 10 range if the team has really good timing, picks appropriate music, and skates to that music, and if their motions are in character for the dance they have chosen.

So when you're judging, if you think a team is lacking in one single area, you may well give them a mark in the 9 to 10 range. As Mr. or Ms. or Mrs. Judge, you can give them 9, 9.25, 9.5, 9.75 or 10. You don't have any other choices, once you have decided they must be in the 9 to 10 region.



Interpretation and Timing Source Rule 611 b, i



To qualify for a mark of between 9.00 and 10.00 in Interpretation and Timing, a team should:



To qualify for a mark of between 8.00 and 8.75 in Interpretation and Timing, a team should:



To qualify for a mark between 7.00 and 7.75 in Interpretation and Timing, a team should:


I'm deliberately not listing marks lower than 7.00, because no team at the Senior GPF got any mark in Interpretation and Timing that was below that range from any judge. Note that all three ranges have 100% perfect timing as a listed requirement. However, if the other stuff is okay, the "Majority" of requirements are satisfied, and a judge may decide to use the range.



And finally how the teams were ranked for interpretation & timing: as three pairs of teams, tied or nearly tied.

1 D&W 9.82
1 V&M 9.82
3 P&B 8.89
4 W&P 8.68
5 B&S 8.11
6 S&S 7.96

I probably will talk about the character of dances later in this thread, but at this point, watch the skaters again with the music on. For the last two items, you may well have concentrated most on their feet; now listen to the music and concentrate on the whole effect a team is going for, and whether every beat of the music is reflected in their skating. Are the crescendos highlighted? Do they end when the music ends? Are they one with the music, always dancing, even through the elements? You may also evaluate whether they are both relating to each other as they relate to the music. Do not however get involved in the story they are telling, if you can manage. This PCS bullet is about the music and their relationship to it, and there is no requirement here for a storyline. When they stumble, if they do, of course that oneness with the music is slightly interrupted. Perfect technique is needed before you can give them a perfect mark in this component.

I'm redoing the links to be British Eurosport because they usually do a good job of synching the audio to the video as any. I'm always rather hesitant to comment on timing "live" on TV because often the feed is not well synched. When you're being an armchair critic, keep in mind that some of your experience of the dancing is shaped by the TV. You are less aware of differences in speed than the judges are, and your perception of timing may be skewed by the poor quality of the feed, and whether the station broadcasting the feed has done anything to fix problems with it. Cup of China had a particularly poor feed this year.

You might want to hit the pause button at the end of each performance so that your judicial deliberations are not affected by British Eurosport guys. Or not; your choice. (If you're looking for British Eurosport coverage, always check out frida340's channel on youtube. She is not up as quick as NikaQuest who posts the Russian feed, but it is often worth the wait.) frida340 did not put up the Shibutanis, so I have used the Universal Sports version for them.

Davis & White Die Fledermaus 9.82
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TvF5bIfB2kA
Virtue & Moir Funny face 9.82
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jb-rY-i7K94&feature=related
Pechalat & Bourzat Pharoah & His Mummy 8.89
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbngjuptYiQ&feature=related
Weaver & Poje Je Suis Malade 8.68
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPPNxEayioc&feature=related
Bobrova & Soloviev Faust 8.11
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E6GRdWygP5Y&feature=related
Shibutani & Shibutani Sun Valley Serenade 7.96
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sEj7qFr7wBg

Again, I would have switched B/S and S/S as far as this mark. S/S did a really good job relating to the music. Their moves are actual accents to the music (twizzles as transitions; lifts to end sections, etc.). I feel B/S's attempt to do that with Faust was shallow at best. In fact a bunch of the crescendos came during their twizzle sequence and I feel like they just twizzled through them with no mind of the music. For some reason the judges at CoC overscored those guys in PCS and it seems that the last two judging panels have not been so kind.

I think I would have put S/S in the low 8s, but not as high as W/P in the mid 8s as I feel they did not look at each other very much. I feel with a swing dance there needs to be a little more connection between the partners and I didn't quite feel like that with those two. It could be the nature of the elements, but at times I felt they were dancing two parts of a swing dance that happened to happen at the same time.

Actually, I think it would have been more interesting competition if C/L had made the final instead of B/S. C/L had the unfortunate chance of facing some tough competition at both their events making their inclusion in the final nearly impossible. I think unless B/S improves some things, I think C/L is more of a threat to the Shibs for top 5.
 

dorispulaski

Wicked Yankee Girl
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Country
United-States
Yes, I think B&S were perhaps overgraded in some spots, vis a vis the Shibutanis, but as overall, it didn't affect placing, I'm not overly disturbed about it. I agree that C&L are perhaps better than either of those two teams at this time, although I would like to see them in the same competition. C&L have a long time reputation for skating a step slower with a bit shallower edges than the top teams. This year, at least from TV, they look a lot better to me. I'm curious to know how whether it strikes those that saw them live this year the same way.

Meanwhile, it's on to the next to the last PCS component:

Composition and Choreography Source Rule 611 b, i, ISU Communication 1677

Definition:
An intentional, developed and/or original arrangement of all types of movements according to the principles of
proportion, unity, space, pattern, structure and phrasing.

Criteria:
  • Purpose (idea, concept, vision)
  • Proportion (equal weight of the parts)
  • Unity (purposeful threading)
  • Utilization of personal and public space
  • Pattern and ice coverage
  • Phrasing and form (movements and parts structured to match the phrasing of the music)
  • Originality of purpose, movement and design
  • Shared responsibility in achieving purpose by both
  • Conformity to pattern and stop requirements (Short Dance only)

As you read through the requirements for the different PCS levels, they might not sound as related as you'd think they should be, but they are. Consider all requirements for the lower levels should be met, but in spades, for the higher levels, if you feel there is a disconnect involved.

To qualify for a mark between 9.00 and 10.00 in Composition and Choreography, you need

  • wide range of steps, moves, and required elements superbly motivated by music
  • ingenious use of music,space, symmetry
  • memorable highlights distributed evenly
  • change of pace/tempo incorporated seamlessly
  • total utilization of personal and public space
  • choreography gives the feeling of a completely unified dance (SD): 100%

To qualify for a mark between 8.00 and 8.75 in Composition and Choreography, you need

  • superior choreography, clearly understandable
  • variety of innovative moves that develop theme
  • change of pace/tempo incorporated with ease
  • excellent use of music/space/symmetry
  • choreography gives the feeling of a completely unified dance (SD): 90%

To qualify for a mark between 7.00 and 7.75 in Composition and Choreography, you need

  • interesting moves derived from theme
  • very good use of music/space/symmetry
  • unity of skaters in use of music content
  • directed to all sides of the rink
  • choreography gives the feeling of a completely unified dance (SD): 80%

Again, no team at the senior GPF earned below a 7.00 in Composition and Choreography.

Here's how the teams ranked in composition & choreography

1 D&W 9.79
1 V&M 9.79
3 P&B 9.04
4 W&P 8.43
5 B&S 8.39
6 S&S 7.93

This time I'm linking the same videos as in timing & interpretation, but watch them in the order that the judges and commentators saw these videos. Instead of focusing on the music and the teams' interaction with it, or their physical links to each other, you should be looking at how the teams use the space of the rink (including how they use the vertical dimension--the lifts should not be at the same place in the rink for example) The step sequences should go to the boards, as nearly as possible. And the highlights should not be crammed together. They should be spaced throughout the routine so that there are no dead spots where you say to yourself, "Ah ha, resting, aren't they!"

And you should look to see that the skaters use the opportunities that the music provides them. Again, if there is a crescendo, is it reflected in the choreography? If there is a slow part, can you tell by what the team is doing?

It's almost worth running each routine with the sound off (to concentrate of their use of space and time) and with the sound on (to concentrate on their use of the music), but if you've watched these several times already, I won't inflict that on you again. B&S are up first because of their problems with the SD. When you watch the Shibutanis, did you feel they used the space worse than B&S? The judges did. Faster skaters tend to use more of the rink than slower skaters; it's legitimate for this component to tend to be lower for slower skaters, all things considered.

Note that it is under Choreography & Composition that the following deductions are taken:

1. There are no deductions for full stops, unless the full stop is longer than 5 seconds in duration. There are no deductions for an excessive amount of full stops. However, each full stop in the body of the program which is longer than 5 seconds in duration earns a deduction of -.5 per stop.
2. Excessive separations are also given a deduction. During a legal full stop (under 5 seconds during the program, under 10 seconds during the introduction and conclusion of the program), separations are permitted without regard to how far apart the skaters get. However, if the skaters have separated to perform difficult footwork, not only must the time of separation be 5 seconds or less, they must remain within 2 armlengths of each other.

Note that subsequent to ISU Communication 1686, that the "Uplifting Music" deduction is taken globally, rather than as part of one of the components.

THE MUSIC DOES NOT HAVE AN UPLIFTING EFFECT: - 1.0 TO - 2.0 [points]
Note: violation of music restrictions mentioned in Rule 609, paragraph
1.c) are not penalized under Interpretation/Timing but as a specific
deduction (see Rule 353, paragraph 1.n) (ii))


While it is a great dance, worthy of the standing ovation it received, do you feel that Je Suis Malade has an uplifting effect.

(It did lift the audience out of their seats, though ;) )


Bobrova & Soloviev Faust 8.11
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E6GRdWygP5Y&feature=related

Shibutani & Shibutani Sun Valley Serenade 7.96
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xdXfuwoAz0&feature=related

Weaver & Poje Je Suis Malade 8.68
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPPNxEayioc&feature=related

Pechalat & Bourzat Pharoah & His Mummy 8.89
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbngjuptYiQ&feature=related

Virtue & Moir Funny face 9.82
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jb-rY-i7K94&feature=related

Davis & White Die Fledermaus 9.82
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TvF5bIfB2kA
 

dorispulaski

Wicked Yankee Girl
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Country
United-States
GENERAL REQUIREMENTS FOR THE FD

General Requirements for the Free Dance, source ISU Communication 1677, Rule 610, § 1

a) Free Dance is the skating by the Couple of a creative dance program blending with dance steps and movements expressing the character/rhythms(s) of the dance music chosen by the Couple;

The Free Dance must contain combinations of new or known dance steps and movements including Required Elements composed into a well balanced, whole unit displaying excellent skating technique and the personal creativity of the couple in concept, arrangement, and expression. The program including Required Elements must be skated in time and phase with the music. The couple should skate primarily in time to the rhythmic beat, and not to the melody alone. The choreography should clearly reflect the dance character, accents and nuances of the chosen dance music, demonstrating a close relationship between partners with obvious, distinct changes of mood and pace with variations in speed and tempo. The program must utilize the whole ice surface. The Free Dance must not have the concept of a Pair or show program;

b) The duration of the Novice Free Dance must be 3 minutes, the duration of Junior Free Dance must be 3 minutes 1/2 minutes and the duration of the Senior Free Dance - 4 minutes. The Couple is allowed to finish their program within ten seconds plus or minus the required time. The time must be reckoned from the moment when one of the Couple begins to move or skate until arriving at a complete stop at the end of the program;

c) The music for Free Dance must be suitable for Ice Dance as a sport discipline and must have the following characteristics:

i) The music must have an audible rhythmic beat and melody, or audible rhythmic beat alone, but not melody alone, and may be vocal. The music may be without an audible rhythmic beat for up to 10 seconds at the beginning or end of the program and up to 10 seconds during the program.

ii) The music must have at least one change of tempo and/or expression. This change may be gradual or immediate, but in either case it must be obvious.

iii) All music including classical music must be cut/edited, orchestrated or arranged in a way that it creates an interesting, colorful, entertaining dance program with different dance moods or a building effect.

iv) The music must be suitable for the couple's skating skills and technical ability. Free Dances that do not adhere to these guidelines will be severely penalized;

d) All steps and turns are permitted. Deep edges and intricate footwork displaying skating skill, difficulty, variety and originality that constitute the distinct technical content of the dance must be included in the program and performed by both partners. In the interest of the public in the arena, programs should be choreographed to all sides of the arena and not only focused to Judge’s side;

e) All elements and movements are permitted provided that they are appropriate to the character of the music and to the concept of a Well Balanced Program and are in accordance with the definitions in Rule 604;

f) Pair skating elements as defined in Rule 519 (excluding spirals, spins and step sequences) are not allowed;

g) The number of separations to execute intricate footwork is not restricted. The distance between partners should not exceed two arms lengths. The duration of each such separation must not exceed 5 seconds. The separations at the beginning and/or end of the Free Dance may be up to 10 seconds in duration without restrictions on the distance of separation;

h) All changes of hold are permitted. Many and varied holds increase the difficulty of the program and therefore, should be included. Skating face to face is considered to be more difficult than skating side by side, hand in hand, separately or one after the other;

i) Full stops (up to 5 seconds), in which the Couple remains stationary on the ice while performing body movements, twisting, posing and the like are permitted;

j) The program must be developed through skating quality rather than through non-skating actions such as sliding on one knee, or use of toe steps which should be used only to reflect the character of the dance and underlining rhythm and nuances of the chosen music. Touching the ice with the hand(s) is not permitted. Kneeling or sliding on two knees, or sitting on the ice is not allowed and it will be considered by the Technical Panel as a fall.

The reason I'm posting the general requirements for the FD is that they throw some light on what the components are supposed to reward:

When I see that free dance should not look like a pairs program or a show program, I think of Pechalat and Bourzat who have deliberately reworked an old show program into their Free Dance. How can judges not be reminded of this?

Here is their Mummies exhibition from 2009 Europeans. It amuses me to hear commentators say how creative the program is when they have repurposed the exhibition:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6JiH5nDSZvo

Furthermore, they do their handstand lift here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6JiH5nDSZvo#t=1m25s

It also is clear that toe steps, posing, and tap dancing are OK, but aren't really going to earn you any points for anything other than developing the character of the piece, and probably should be kept to a minimum. A team should be spending their program time doing things that would add to their transitions mark.

On the other hand, Bobrova & Soloviev's lift where he is in a knee slide, while legal, perhaps should not get top GOE, when I consider the disapproval in the general requirements for knee slides.

Both judges and commentators are not wholly consistent with what these documents say.

I wanted to get this in there before we discuss the last part of Free dance Program Component Score, Performance and Execution.
 

dorispulaski

Wicked Yankee Girl
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Country
United-States
c) The music for Free Dance must be suitable for Ice Dance as a sport discipline and must have the
following characteristics:
i) The music must have an audible rhythmic beat and melody, or audible rhythmic beat alone, but
not melody alone, and may be vocal. The music may be without an audible rhythmic beat for up
to 10 seconds at the beginning or end of the program and up to 10 seconds during the program.

The beat seems to start at about 10 secs from when they start moving (which is the beginning of the program), so they are OK on that one, I think?
 

dorispulaski

Wicked Yankee Girl
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Country
United-States
And so we come to the last of the Free dance Program component scores rules:

PERFORMANCE AND EXECUTION





Performance and Execution Source Rule 611 b, i

Definition:
Performance – The involvement of the Couple physically, emotionally and intellectually as they translate the intent of the music and the choreography.

Execution - The quality of movement and precision in delivery. This includes harmony of movement.

Criteria:
  • Physical, emotional and intellectual involvement;
  • Carriage
  • Style and individuality/personality
  • Clarity of movement
  • Variety and contrast
  • Projection
  • Unison and “oneness”
  • Balance in performance between partners
  • Spatial

To qualify for a mark between 9.00 and 10.00 in Performance and Execution, you need

  • move as one, superb matching
  • elegant /sophisticated style
  • refined line of body and limbs
  • precise execution of body movements
  • both spellbinding
  • projection exceptional (to audience or in themselves if music requires)

To qualify for a mark between 8.00 and 8.75 in Performance and Execution, you need

  • coordinated movements, excellent matching
  • superb carriage and lines
  • effortless change of difficult holds
  • project strongly

To qualify for a mark between 7.00 and 7.75 in Performance and Execution, you need

  • move as couple, matched with ease
  • easy use of change of all holds
  • excellent carriage/lines
  • both project most of time


Here's how the teams finished for Performance & Execution


1 D&W 9.75
1 V&M 9.68
3 P&B 8.82
4 W&P 8.57
5 B&S 8.14
6 S&S 7.93

Note that D&W scored higher than V&M in this component, although not by much. When you watch the videos, watch them in order, and this time listen to the commentary by British Eurosport. Listen to how the words they use of the couples reflects the language of this section.


Bobrova & Soloviev Faust 8.11
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E6GRdWygP5Y&feature=related

Shibutani & Shibutani Sun Valley Serenade 7.96
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xdXfuwoAz0&feature=related

Weaver & Poje Je Suis Malade 8.68
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPPNxEayioc&feature=related

Pechalat & Bourzat Pharoah & His Mummy 8.89
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbngjuptYiQ&feature=related

Virtue & Moir Funny face 9.82
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jb-rY-i7K94&feature=related

Davis & White Die Fledermaus 9.82
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TvF5bIfB2kA

So any questions class?

Would you have S&S ahead of B&S or the reverse on PCS?

How about Weaver and Poje vs. Pechalat and Bourzat?

And any words of wisdom to help Scott Moir understand PCS marks? His problem is not that he needs to be higher (they're getting 10's)..
 

Tex

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 7, 2006
Professor Dorispulaski you have taught me so much about PCS. Now if only the judges could be more informed. What does it take to be a judge? Are their continuing education ice dancing scoring classes? And if so, what and how do they learn about the scoring. If not, I elect you as Dean of Ice Dance Scoring.

You bring up great points like the GOE on the B/S's knee-slide lift should be lower because kneeling/sliding (on 2 knees not 1) is looked down on. Also, with B/S shouldn't their PCS in Execution and Performance be much lower based on her poor carriage???
 

dorispulaski

Wicked Yankee Girl
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Country
United-States
The question is whether they meet the other 3 bullets to get a majority of the bullets at the 8 to 8.75 level (with the understanding that they are fast enough to qualify for that level):

•coordinated movements, excellent matching
•superb carriage and lines
•effortless change of difficult holds
•project strongly

He is bent over to match her, so they match. They do project decently. However, the bent-overness impedes their efforts to do close & difficult holds effortlessly. So for me, they don't have a majority of the points at 8. I'd probably give them 7.75; maybe 7.50.

Here's what the different judges gave them:

The last item in each row is the average of the previous numbers.
Skating Skills
7.75 8.50 8.00 8.25 8.00 8.00 8.25 8.00 7.75 8.04​
Linking Footwork / Movement
7.75 8.50 7.75 8.25 7.25 8.25 7.75 7.75 7.50 7.86​
Performance
8.00 8.50 7.75 8.50 8.00 8.25 8.25 8.25 7.50 8.14​
Choreography
8.25 8.75 7.75 8.50 8.00 8.50 8.50 8.50 8.50 8.39​
Interpretation / Timing
8.00 8.75 7.75 8.00 7.75 8.25 8.25 8.00 8.50 8.11​
 

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 27, 2009
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xdXfuwoAz0&feature=related <---- Doris, turns out that poster did upload the Shibutanis' FD on Eurosport.

This is actually the one category where I would put B/S ahead of the Shibs. Despite the bad posture on her part, I think they do a good job meeting the other bullets and they do a good job performing this FD. I would lower their score to reflect some of the points you made Doris, but I would also lower the Shibs to reflect this adjustment.

I think the Shibs are doing too much of a textbook lesson swing dance rather than an actual "night on the town" swing dance. I agree with the Eurosport commentator that the Shibs, Alex in particular, is doing too much staging for the judges as opposed to dancing with Maia. Maia is a lot better at performing the dance,but she can improve here too. I think the relatively low PCS scores are a message from the judges "We love that you are polished and got the tech now, now work on the packaging!" And they have the basics already, it's just a matter of nuances at this point. They scored a 95 for this dance, just shy of their 96 at Worlds last year.

I think I would have W/P in front of P/B. I really feel that W/P is performing the heck out of this dance. I think their body language and expressions are so projected you can see it from the back row of the arena! I think P/B do a good job performing this FD, but I feel theme of the dance really limits their ability to project themselves to the audience. They do fulfill the bullets OK though, so I'd keep them in the mid 8s.

Let's face it, we're pulling hairs with D/W and V/M. But I think I agree with the slight nod for D/W here. While V/M does a GREAT GREAT GREAT job performing this dance, I'm not sure if they necessarily have the projection that D/W has. I think that D/W has moves (i.e. those amazing lifts) that really projects the character of the dance to the audience and the ease at getting into and out of those lifts are a bonus. V/M have a beautiful program in FF, but I just don't think the current choreo doesn't quite give that crispness that D/W is giving right now. Again, I'm really pulling hairs here.

So if I was going to score for just performance:

D/W 9.75
V/M 9.7
W/P 8.8
P/B 8.65
B/S 7.95
S/S 7.90

Thanks for this exercise, Doris. It was very educational and fun to review the dances with a fresh eye!
 

semosk8tfan

Medalist
Joined
Mar 29, 2009
Country
United-States
Yes, thanks Doris for this very informative thread. Kudos to the judges for being able to watch the performance and immediately give scores....it would take me 24 hours at least!
 

dorispulaski

Wicked Yankee Girl
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Country
United-States
The fact that the judges must give scores immediately probably affects the scores a lot. In the case of B&S, the difficulties they had with their last two lifts turned what was supposed to be an effective, exciting, explosive ending to a failed firecracker with a faint pop. That was the last thing the judges saw before they figured out the PCS scores for them.

It can't have helped.

The SD has a number of rules and regulations for PCS additional to what the FD has. At some point I'll probably kill some time writing about them, but in a thread about the SD, not here.

Mrs P, Tex & semosk8fan, thanks for following this all the way through!

Especial thanks to Mrs P for finding the Shib's FD. I guess frida340 has a misspelling in her tags, because the search box does not bring it up. I would give the FD to Meryl & Charlie at this event on PCS as well, but when you get to the elevated level of V&M and D&W, it's difficult, and the judges have a difficult job.

I started this project because of Scott Moir's interview.

I thought, if you don't know what the scores mean, how can the viewers? I think we should pick through them.

Both dances are excellent, and are getting enthusiastic audiences out of their seats to applaud. Both are performed at a high technical level. If I were a judge, how would I split them?

Meryl & Charlie's pluses are:

1. Effortless lifts, seamlessly integrated into the program, so that they do not seem to be elements. The whole segment around that amazing 2nd lift (rotational) is just fabulous. Tessa & Scott's lifts are still not entirely smooth yet, particularly the first curved lift, where the balance point is difficult, and they seem to be struggling. By the end of the season, I expect to see everything perfect, but it isn't yet. Plus by doing a combo lift, V&M give away 0.5 in technical score. (ETA that this difference was fixed for 2011 2012, but the judges' software was not fixed until after the GPF)
2. Music that almost everyone likes, and wants to clap along to (particularly in Russia!). I noticed the British Eurosport guys struggling to like the Funny Face music, and one telling the other you had to hear it a few times to get it. Fred Astaire programs are much beloved by North Americans, but they have sometimes been a bit less successful than they should have been internationally. I am particularly thinking of T&D 1994, and Blumberg & Siebert, not to mention Belbin & Agosto's That's Entertainment (not Astaire, but a similar genre). You could hear comments internationally about "dated" while in the US and Canada, Fred is "timeless".
3. They are faster than V&M.
4. Die Fledermaus, as choreographed, has fewer, shorter resting points and posing sections than Funny Face, simply because D&W don't need to stop and pose to create the mood change; the music does the work for them. This affects the transitions score.

Tessa and Scott have the following advantages over Meryl & Charlie.

1. Their unison is somewhat better. They skate a little closer. They extend their legs a little further at the end of the stroke. Consequently, they get a little better skating skills score. The difference is small, because D&W are faster. In a non tap dance program, this advantage could translate into better scores on the step sequences, if they are able to skate them with clean edges. This outing, they did really well, and got level 4's on both step sequences in the FD (D&W often have a little cleaner edges than V&M and get level 4's a hair more frequently). However, the trying to portray the staccato nature of tap dance blunts the impact of their lovely glide, so they didn't really get the advantage here that they might have with a different program.
2. They are significantly better actors than Meryl & Charlie, and they do a particularly good job of characterization in Funny Face. However, a review of PCS shows that the only positives for good story telling are indirect, because a good story involves the audience. The actual reference to story is a deduction: if it isn't simple & easy to understand, or if the music isn't uplifting, there is a deduction.
3. They do a better job of portraying a romantic interaction on ice than Meryl & Charlie. Again, there are very few points in the current PCS rules where this benefits them much.

So on balance, this time, I'd give it to Meryl & Charlie. But it is so close, that reasonable people can and do disagree.
 
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Joined
Aug 16, 2009
Thanks, Doris! That analysis really helps me understand what to look for when I'm watching the two of them. As you say, they're both so amazing that it's barely possible to give them anything but a tie, but your breakdown identifies the elements in which each couple is especially bullseye.
 

Tex

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 7, 2006
After just watching the FDs of D/W and V/M, I feel underwhelmed. If it was the 6.0 system for artistry, I would give my highest score to W/P. I felt connected to W/P in their FD and they were able to make me feel something. But things are different and there's a lot more than emotion involved. Looking at all the sections that make up PCS, I wouldn't know which I would rank higher V/M or D/W. Some of V/M lifts looks effortful (maybe too mechanical or thought out) and not as smooth as D/W, but practice will iron out those kinks. I think it's these programs I don't particularly like/connect with. My first thought was this is like watching the best dancers on SYTCD, executing a dance near perfect, but no emotional connection or lack of a story. D/W and V/M have technically difficult programs but the characters and story of their FDs are too simplistic for my liking. There speed and their flow from one thing to the next was amazing and I bet better in person. I wish story-telling had a little more factor into the scoring but then again, I don't know if that would change anything. I do miss some of the dramatic pieces like the one's from Drobiazko/Vanagas or out of the box ones like Delobel/Schoenfelder.

With the whole-uplifting requirement, I wish it change so that one year, if you do a dramatic FD, then the next you are required to do something more uplifting/upbeat (happy, funny, perky, hopeful, and so on). On dance shows like DWTS and SYTYCD, audiences repsond to both styles and with SYTYCD I would say even more so to dramatic pieces. It would challenge the skaters and give the viewers/audiences some more variety in the FDs.
 

cjsk8fan

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 11, 2005
Funny, I get a little tired of the forced romantic programs. W/P did nothing for me. I thought with the quality of their skating they should have been fifth.
 

dorispulaski

Wicked Yankee Girl
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Country
United-States
The audience really connected with Weaver/Poje during their FD, and I'll bet they will at Worlds in France, as well...

One odd thing about Weaver / Poje is the really ugly lift they do in the SD. They are very, very good at lifts, but that lift where she ends up in a pose, standing on a bent leg , and the other leg is bent too is really awkward looking, not sexy, and not Latin. So I don't know what they are thinking with it. I don't know why they don't alter the final pose. She could just stand, or she could drape around him...anything but this.

Here it is, at the end of their rhumba sequence:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFMGFyKCTN0#t=2m2s



And it's clear that the judges have scored that lift lower than their other lifts:

The base level for a short lift is 4.00, and if you do it perfectly, you can earn 5.50.
Their GOE for the ugly lift in the SD is 0.71 to 0.86.

Skate Canada 4.75
NHK 4.79
COR 4.86
GPF 4.71

Other lifts at GPF
RoLi4 5.07
CuLi4 5.14
RoLi4 5.36
SlLi3* They had a problem, as seen by the tech panel, but GOE was still 1.07, higher than the SD lift.

If they could creep a little closer to P&B during the SD, they could grab that bronze at Worlds.
 

mare

Rinkside
Joined
Feb 19, 2010
In this season, it's only fitting that my first post to the forum be one of thanks to dorispulaski and the countless others on this thread for contributing to my education about ice dance. I'm a long term fan with many opinions. Now, thanks to all of you, I'll have some facts to back them up.

My best to all for a happy holiday.
 

dorispulaski

Wicked Yankee Girl
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Country
United-States
mare, welcome to Golden Skate! We hope you will post long and often.

And thanks for the kind words!
 

Crossover

All Hail the Queen
Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 31, 2014
Wow, this educational thread is what I, a casual and always lazy ice dance fan was looking for! Because the pattern for the 2018 Olympics is Latin dance, I rewatched the 2011-12 SD and felt I need to brush off my memory and to memorize all rules for better understanding of protocols. Thanks for the great efforts and compilation, Doris!
 
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