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Thread: Opinion: Sato and Asada partnership is not working!

  1. #16
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    I strongly disagree that Tarasova did anything to improve Mao's skating. Everything went backwards under Tarasova and the programs were dreadful, failing to capitalize on Mao's greatest strength - the otherworldly, etherial aspect of her skating.

    I have enormous respect for Tarasova and consider her the greatest coach, if not in the history of the sport, then of the last 30 years. But her reputation has been made working closely with skaters who trained directly under her supervision. She has been less successful when she simply choreographs for skaters she doesn't otherwise work with. When TT works with a skaters as a coach, she gets to know them, their style and their strengths. Then she choreographs to their strengths, minimizes their weaknesses, and builds brilliant programs for them. Without that day to day interaction, she simply imposes her vision on the skaters, with less success.

  2. #17
    and... World Peace! Tonichelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by demarinis5 View Post
    We now know that Mao's Mom was seriously ill before her recent death. The stress, pressure and heartache Mao was enduring for the last couple of
    seasons is huge. IMO that is what has affected her skating and not her coaching situation. Time heals and I expect to see a markedly improved Mao
    next season.

    so glad this was brought up as I completely agree that this season is going extremely well for Asada considering everything she's been dealing with.

  3. #18
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    It seemed to me she was doing well, too. Then this thread appeared and made me very anxious. Well, I only have to clench my teeth for another six days or so. Go, Mao!

  4. #19
    Custom Title hurrah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Macassar88 View Post
    It's the fact that she spends so much of the jump set up on an outside edge and then turns in at the last second. It feels like she doesn't have enough control of her edge. Basically, I would prefer it if she got to the inside edge then picked in instead of getting to the inside edge while she is picking in.
    Well, it's not as if her rivals' flip technique is all that superior. Take a look at Carolina's flip technique:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_0MuZvJXtNY

    You can see Carolina skids on her outer edge before switching to the inside edge at the last minute, too. AND she takes forever setting herself up, alot longer than Mao does.

    But of course, she can still continue to improve. Reports are that Mao wants to do triple flip-triple loop this time so she may already have made some improvements.

  5. #20
    Custom Title macy's Avatar
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    between those two performances posted i noticed some things:

    with sato, she has more speed, better flow out of her jumps, faster spins, and seems to be enjoying it more. there are smiles the whole way through. there is more joy.

    but i have to agree, she looks very frail compared to 2008. she lost a lot of muscle mass in her legs. hopefully she will be stronger next season, i know she's had it rough for a while.

  6. #21
    Huge Scott Moir Fan Macassar88's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hurrah View Post
    Well, it's not as if her rivals' flip technique is all that superior. Take a look at Carolina's flip technique:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_0MuZvJXtNY

    You can see Carolina skids on her outer edge before switching to the inside edge at the last minute, too. AND she takes forever setting herself up, alot longer than Mao does.

    But of course, she can still continue to improve. Reports are that Mao wants to do triple flip-triple loop this time so she may already have made some improvements.
    Just because people do it a lot doesn't mean that I have to like it. For example, most men do the A spin, but I think it's really ugly.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by macy View Post
    between those two performances posted i noticed some things:

    with sato, she has more speed, better flow out of her jumps, faster spins, and seems to be enjoying it more. there are smiles the whole way through. there is more joy.

    but i have to agree, she looks very frail compared to 2008. she lost a lot of muscle mass in her legs. hopefully she will be stronger next season, i know she's had it rough for a while.
    Is this something that Mr. Sato would be likely to have some say in? Could she be urged to eat a different combination of foods, for instance, along with doing special exercises?

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonlady View Post
    I strongly disagree that Tarasova did anything to improve Mao's skating. Everything went backwards under Tarasova and the programs were dreadful, failing to capitalize on Mao's greatest strength - the otherworldly, etherial aspect of her skating.
    I could not agree more. Tarasova is obviously a great coach but her choreography was so wrong for Mao. And I think they made a costly error trying to fix the lutz; instead she should have improved her 3F/3T which she did a season (or two) before joining Tarasova. I think Tarasova is a technical purist but it probably would have been better to leave her (f)lutz as is and take the edge call, because under Tarasova she really had no lutz at all and lost her 3/3s. She had some magnificent, ethereal programs under Yamada and her LP this season looks like a move towards what worked for her before.

  9. #24
    Custom Title hurrah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Olympia View Post
    Is this something that Mr. Sato would be likely to have some say in? Could she be urged to eat a different combination of foods, for instance, along with doing special exercises?
    She was frightfully thin around this time last year when she must have been in private agony over her mother's sickness, but I think she is okay now. There was a clip released of her trainer and Mr. Sato in discussion at the beginning of the off season and the trainer is heard saying that 'fortunately, not much muscle had been lost' and Mr. Sato saying that there needed to be sufficient muscle to withstand the gravitational pull but that there should be no unnecessary muscle which would only weigh her down. One thing different between the two clips is that Mao has grown taller by as much as five centimeters since 2008. So she is not necessarily thinner but taller.

    When she was examined by a doctor when she was younger, the doctor predicted that she would grow to 172centimeters, so growth spurts during off season has been occuring even recently for her.

  10. #25
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    Mao is still a great skater but I miss her carefree etheral skating days. all her coaches have helped in some ways or at least helped maintained her talent but I agree Tat was not the right choreographer; not sure though Sato has improved for example her long program - thought it had a higher quality or ehteral quality last year.

  11. #26
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    My feeling about Mao Asada is that she has always had a magnificent talent for the ice. She has had a natural flow that is extraordinary, and a pure pleasure to watch. I have worried for some time about her striving for the triple axel, as I believe the focus on it has cost her dearly, overall. She does not need a triple axel to be a winner. I don't want that quest to hurt her career any more than I think it already has. I never spoke up about it before, but I just have to now. She is a wonderful skater, and she just has to believe in herself, and the rest should fall into place.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skater Boy View Post
    Mao is still a great skater but I miss her carefree etheral skating days. all her coaches have helped in some ways or at least helped maintained her talent but I agree Tat was not the right choreographer; not sure though Sato has improved for example her long program - thought it had a higher quality or ehteral quality last year.
    Mr. Sato is not her choreographer. She has returned to Lori Nichol for some of her choreography and I hope this collaberation continues.

  13. #28
    Custom Title Snoopy15's Avatar
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    Here's my take on it:

    Jumps: Mao's Salchow may not be as solid, but Mr. Sato has fixed her Flip. She might not have gotten an edge call in the past, but you can tell, before Mr. Sato, that her entrance into the Flip begins on a deep outside edge, and changes back to the inside edge before the take-off. Although there are no apparant problems with either technique, the current technique with her going straight back onto the inside edge is better. The first technique actually results in a loss of momentum going into the jump due to the changes in edge. Also, Mao's Lutz is still slightly flutzed, but at least it is more consistent. (However, it seems that Mr. Sato likes to teach the Lutz by having his students put both feet onto the ice before reaching back, like Kozuka. I wonder if a change in technique would yield a better result).

    Speed: Mao's speed has declined, but it's due to the re-construction of the jumps. At this point in re-habillitating her jumps, she must take things one step at a time.

    Spins: I believe the spins are better quality. I can see where the other opinions are coming from, but remember one very important detail: The 2008-2009 Mao competed under the COP where change of edge in spins were needed to gain levels. I believe some of you are confusing "Difficulty" with "Quality," particularly in comparison between the two systems.

  14. #29
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    It simply is not true that Mao's speed has declined. It has increased significantly. The person who put up this clip:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_Oqd...ure=plpp_video

    says that whereas Mao used to take 9~10 second from the other end of the rink to do her 3f-2l at the other end, she now takes 7 seconds, a reduction of 2-3 seconds. With the lutz, she still takes 9 seconds to go from end to end of the rink but she has changed her approach path so that the distance is longer. And with her double-axel-triple-toe, if you look at the jump width she achieves, she obviously has very good speed going into that jump.

    And I have already mentioned that she is now getting level-4 on her step sequence, and that is due to that fact that she can now maintain her speed to the very end (which was something that Shizuka said on television). If you look at the step sequence of other skaters, their steps often don't travel as much distance as Mao's and there is a reduction of speed in the middle of it.

    So Mao clearly has better speed. Mr. Sato has stated on several occasions that 'nothing is as attractive as speed' and it was the first thing that he started working on with Mao. (But Mao skates so effortlessly and floaty-like that when you watch her on TV, she actually seems to be skating slower than before.)
    Last edited by hurrah; 03-27-2012 at 11:48 PM.

  15. #30
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    Welcome to Golden Skate, Snoopy15!

    Post long and often!

    Your student Peppermint Patty was great
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yH_RlC6Ahe8

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