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Thread: The Short Dance & the Golden Waltz-SD Year 1

  1. #31
    Rinkside
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    Fantastic thread! Here are my thoughts:

    Bring back the CD! I find that the CDs are so important to mastering partnering skills and different steps and rhythyms. To place well in in the CD means you must be technically strong with superb edge quality, but the FD allows for more athleticism and expression. Both are incredibly important to ice dance, but can be difficult to both judge and focus on as a skater simulataneously. For this reason, we are going to see more athletic teams succeeding in both portions. For this reason, I fear that over time, the technical skill and edge quality of ice dancers is going to decrease as CDs become less and less important. Young dancers won't focus on the CDs as much because after novice, you've just got the SD! And ok, maybe you've got to do a single pattern of the GW one day, but it's one pattern, and you've still got lifts, connecting steps, and step sequences to save you. I hope this doesn't happen, but I am still fearful!

    I want to see the CD, OD, and FD again. Even if it did take more time, I appreciated the different styles and aspects of cie dance that each event forced ice dancers to bring to the table. Having all 3 makes for a more well-rounded competition.

    If you're required to do a waltz, I want to see a waltz!

    My favorite SD of the season, Kaitlyn Weaver and Andrew Poje. They shine in this program and still get the waltz feel.

  2. #32
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    I really like W&P's SD!

    One issue that needs resolution about the SD is how to handle timing problems during the pattern dance segment. This is on my mind because it caused some real inconsistencies in judging during the SD at Jr. Worlds today. The couple leading, Monko and Khaliavin, got some very mixed grades in their Viennese Waltz segment, with GOE ranging from +2 to -1. This was reflected on the corresponding judge's interpretation/timing column in PCS. The judges who gave M&K -1 in the VW segments gave them 3 to 4 in Interpretation/Timing, so I'm guessing that that was what the problem was. Other PCS grades for M&K were in the 7 to 8 region. There needs to be better guidance for judges on what to do with timing errors, and perhaps a restructuring of PCS for the SD.

    Or perhaps that a key point cannot count for the level of a pattern dance segment if the key point is not executed on the correct beat. In any case, this needs to be fixed. This would also fix some of the problems with inappropriate music being chosen, as people would not risk trying to skate a waltz to tango music again if there were an associated penalty.

  3. #33
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    I remembered this morning what else, really important, I don't like about the SD. Under the old CD/OD/FD model, it was possible for a skater who was still Junior age eligible to compete at home as a Senior, but internationally as a Junior. This allowed skaters to transition more smoothly between Junior and Senior. In Canada, if you win Junior, you must move up to Senior. In the past, that's meant that you continue to develop your Senior skills at home, and get the experience of a higher level of skill and competition, which makes you a better competitor at Junior internationally. While Paul/Islam have been Seniors in Canada this year, they would have been able to compete on the JGP and Junior Worlds, while Canada's top 3 Senior teams compete at the Senior level. It's more development opportunity for the up and coming skaters. With the SD different for Junior and Senior, this option is now gone for dance. It's the only figure skating discipline for which this is now the case. If the ISU changed the scope of the SD so that both chose the same narrow rhythm (ie. argentine tango, viennese waltz, etc.), and maybe distinguished between Senior and Junior on an element, or level of expectation, Seniors at home who are still Junior age eligible would be able to still compete internationally as Juniors.

  4. #34
    Constable , Costume Police colleen o'neill's Avatar
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    I really miss the CD. I know I'm quirky , but I would even have preferred to see a simple standard practice outfit adopted for all couples in the CD's.. All the better to compare you with, my dears ! (And save you money in the costume dept.)..Oh well, that was never going to happen ...And surely the ISU could have done something to upgrade and expand their music selections over the years.

    Anyway, I'm not happy with the SD either, but found myself enjoying more of them than I would have predicted when the idea was first floated. Of course I didn't expect to like any of them . And for some of those I enjoyed , like H/G's at Canadian's, just because I could enjoy them doesn't mean they really got the job done.. R/T's and W/P's were standouts to me all season and I liked some of the wangos .I think V/M's is very good and I liked P/I's ( esp . when the sound quality was good enough that you could hear the underlying waltz rhythm, which it was , at Canadians )..I/K's is just a mess , not a good waltz, not much of a tango either. And on, and on.
    Generally, I agree that more of the all waltz ones worked, but if they all went all waltz, it would just be like one extended CD , and the uninitiated would find it pretty boring.

    Overall, the SD was very difficult to get a grasp on, and I'm speaking as an observer, nevermind the skaters ! At least the GW offered some sort of challenge , but if they go to something relatively simple like Rhumba next year , I have to think, what is the point ? I forsee a lot of tinkering , which means it will not get any less confusing for the audience , in the meantime.

    I liked the OSP's back in the day, and Bigsis' comments really strike a chord with me ( especially the dramatic fling-abouts bit )..I'm not sure what the length of the OSP was, but if it was shorter there could be some extended parts that were not repeated...?
    I liked the idea of the OD, but it definitely needed some reining in , if there's to be no CD.

    Northendancers makes a good point about the Jr./Sr transition...how will they get around that ? Countries with deep fields are going to have a lot of skaters stuck in limbo..lost in the shuffle..etc.

  5. #35
    Trixie Schuba's biggest fan! blue dog's Avatar
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    Maybe what they can do is modify the short dance, so that it is more like the short program of the pairs and singles skaters--let the skaters choose the pattern they will use in their short dance. This way, we won't get the weird mashups of waltz/tango, etc.

    Of the bygone dance events, I think I miss the OSP the most. The OSP not only showed creativity, but also a mastery of steps needed in both compulsories and the free dances.

  6. #36
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    For sure, some of my favorite dances ever were the old OSPs, and I still watch them from time to time:

    Torvill & Dean's Paso Doble, and their Summertime Blues and their Rumba d'Amour. Klimova & Ponomarenko's Golden Viennese Waltz, Rahkamo & Kokko's Finnish Polka, the Duchesnay's Argentine Tango, Wynne & Druar's Charleston

    but I also really love some of the old ODs (we got to see more of them than we did the old OSP's): Denkova & Staviyski's Baroque Grand Ball, Anissina & Peizaret's Flamenco, Fusar-Poli & Margaglio's Quickstep, Grishuk & Platov's Quickstep, Belbin and Agosto's Salsa medley, Navka and Kostmamarov's Ain't No Sunshine, Lang & Tchernyshev's Carmen (Spanish medley), and Davis & White's Bollywood and their Charleston, although they never performed it perfectly-probably the Skate Canada version, Krylova & Ovsiannakov's Jive, and Virtue & Moir's Flamenco And I'd have 4x the honorable mentions too.

    And this year, the only dance I might ever watch again for sure is Weaver & Poje's At Last. Honorable mention (because I don't actively dislike these dances) to Davis & White's Musetta's Waltz, Riazanova & Tkchenko's Russian Waltz, Faiella & Scali's My Fair Lady, and Chock & Zuerlein's Edith Piaf medley.

    It's a pretty sad commentary.

  7. #37
    Trixie Schuba's biggest fan! blue dog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dorispulaski View Post

    And this year, the only dance I might ever watch again for sure is Weaver & Poje's At Last.
    My favourite program of any discipline this year.

    I think, at the moment, ice dance is truly ice dance at the lower competitive (and adult) levels, where the CD still exists. While the juniors/seniors are still getting to know the SD, ice dance there will continue to be two free dances.

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