Ladies - Short Program

[hurrah]

Where? Nationals? In 2009, I would agree- she was held up with a shaky FS above both Flatt and Zhang who did 7-triple(!) freeskates. But this year? Zawadzki bombed...Zhang was not really in title contention after the SP...Nagasu did herself in as well. But who should have gone to worlds instead of Czisny? No one has answered that question yet. You folks claim Czisny was held up/didn't deserve to go; well then, who did?

And before you think I'm defending Czisny, believe me, I'm not. She completely dropped the ball here and it's 100% her fault, no matter how much Phil Hersh tries to shift blame to USFS. If she doesn't feel she's in condition to compete (at least competently), it's up to her to do the right thing and WD from the competition. However, where I do think USFS comes in is they have to make sure she is ready- as they learned from Flatt last year, you can't always trust that the competitors have the team's best interest at heart. That said, based on what she did that season and at Nationals, I think she earned the spot. Remember, it was only after Challenge Cup a couple weeks ago that red flags went up re. Czisny.

I have no clear answer to who should have been sent to Worlds this year. What I was pointing out was that there seems to be this strong tradition of anointing winners in America and this kind of practice can create an environment where skaters end up not being properly motivated or trained.

Alissa at her best, even when she was landing triples, always had small jumps with loooonnng set-ups and she was always a slow skater and these things didn't seem to reflect on her scores just as long as she was landing some jumps (and all the talk was about how out of this world her spins were and her spins were so good they were worth triple jumps---really?). If only these things hadn't been ignored, maybe Alissa wouldn't now be skating at Worlds, or she may be skating at Worlds but with a different mindset.

[draqq]

Whichever judge gave Alena Leonova a 9.00 for Skating Skills, Performance/Execution, Choreography/Composition, and Interpretation should be banned as a judge. Now. All the other judges gave her low 8s, 7s, and high 6s. If this isn't favoritism and overwhelming bias, I don't know what is.

[Olympia]

American figure skating culture has a strong 'beauty pageant' element to it (exemplified by Phil Hersch), and that's what's diminished women's figure skating in US.

That's kind of a surprising comment. First off, have American ladies' skaters been appreciably more beautiful than skaters of other countries? Prettier than YuNa Kim or Shizuka? Prettier than Katarina Witt?

Second, have the top-ranked skaters been more beautiful than the runners-up? Certainly Alissa is beautiful, and certainly Michelle and Sasha are also, but so are Jennifer Kirk and Caroline Zhang, who have never been champions. (And I think we can agree that Michelle and Sasha became and remained champions for reasons other than their appearance.)

Several of our other top skaters are cute but were far from glamorous in their skating heyday--partly because they were such young teenagers: Kimmie Meissner, Sarah Hughes, Tara Lipinski, Naomi Nari Nam. (I realize that Sarah and Naomi were never national champs.)

I'm not trying to set up any kind of judging system for looks. These accomplished ladies are all beautiful to me. But I just wanted to point out that the beauty pageant notion doesn't seem to apply as a criterion for American champions.

[russell30]

This seems to be an Alissa Czisny thread rather than the Ladies SP thread 2012 from Nice.

Just give Alissa a break, remember the good things Grand Prix final Champion, 2 times Us champion and 5th last year.

All skaters have off days, I should know, we are just human.

[Nadine]

Deleted, posted in the wrong thread by mistake, my apologies.

[Aya]

i agree Gracie is great but she mad a choice to skate junior. let her grow and devele at her own pace don't push.

[brightphoton]

How high does Lacoste have to place to get 2 spots for Canada?

[Mrs. P]

How high does Lacoste have to place to get 2 spots for Canada?

Top 10.

[tulosai]

Alena is never going to be elegant or a ballet princess. Yes, that program probably has too much posing, butt shaking and winking. But I think she is being packaged to her strengths. She doesn't have the skating skills of Mao, Carolina or most of the other contenders. But....she's charming, aggressive and has that "ta dah!" factor to her skating. She skates with pizazz. She's making the best of what she's got. I applaud her personality she showcases on the ice! I probably would have had Murakami in 1st. I appreciate how hard she fights when she's often overlooked by all the upcoming Russian phenoms. I agree that if she makes the podium here, it will really make it difficult for her federation to just cast her aside for the up and comers. I'm sure she knows that.

I think she also knows that the third spot she is fighting for is (if she medals) probably her own (and even if she doesn't medal, likely her own). With 2 spots even if she got bronze Russia would have tough choices.

[brightphoton]

Top 10.

=\ eh.okay. One spot it is.

[Irishflip]

Just for record...since 07 world
Miki (3triple SP, 7 LP), Mao (2 SP, 6 w one double footed < triple), Yuna (3 SP, 4 LP - 2 falls)

08 Mao (2 clean, 1 < triple in SP; 5 clean, one < and one fall LP), Yuna (2 clean, 1 fall; 5 clean, one popped), Miki (2 clean SP, LP withdrawl)

09 Miki (2 clean, 1 < in SP, 5 clean, 1 < in LP), Mao (2 clean, one double SP, 1 fall - 4 clean triples), Yuna (3 clean SP, 5 clean - one popped triple)

10 Olym Yuna (3, 6), Mao (2, 5 - one popped), Miki (2, 6)

10 World Mao (1 clean, 1 <; 5 clean - 1 <), Yuna (2 clean, 1<; 5 clean, 1 fall), Miki (1 clean, 1 fall; 6 clean)

so pretty much all ladies has up and down skates, since COP non of the ladies are able to skate consistently ......

Yes but the way it was put made it sound like the usual idea of Queen Yu-Na is flawless and impeccably consistent which annoys me as i'm tired of some of fans twisting the truth especially the idea that she's a more rounded skater then Asada.

[os168]

Phil tweeted that he was going to continue blaming the USFS for messing with Alissa's head by not sending her to 4CCs, and "that's my story and I'm going to stick to it". Typical Phil Hersh.

Surprisingly, I agree with Hersh for once.

A public vote of no confidence from you own country/federation would mess up anyone's competitive morale specially if they are a head case already. What's worse? How about not getting the respect you deserve in some form of explanation any hardworking qualifier should deserve, especially having contributed as much as Alissa has to US figure skating over the years. I have no problem with the decision of USFSA not sending her, but there are better way to manage your talents to ensure they can always deliver their best and maximum their chances instead of sabotaging them through negligence and arrogance.

Some may say the result proved the decision was justified, I'd say actually how do you know it didn't happen because of it? Before Alissa got to skate, I was shocked to see her face appear to be bloated resembling someone who's either high on pain killers, or someone who hasn't slept and been awake all night. I had a feeling this won't go well then but never did I expect the extend of it. Heart breaking really...

I thought overall the judges were fairer for the ladies (pleasant surprise) than for the men today. Although I also thought Kanako was the best on the day. However, I do get why Alena placing first and found her overall 'package' the typical expensive self indulgent theatrical pantomime of the Hollywood block buster variety. Yeb, I consider Morozov the Michael Bay of figure skating world, who thinks by throwing enough explosions, special effect and clichéd one liners, there won't be any need for substance, detailing and subtlety in the story telling. It is really in your face, leave your brain at the door and 'just enjoy it' type of program. It works because Alena really REALLY really really want you to love her!!! And lucky for her, the judges were blind sided enough with all the Bling, the twinks, the winks on offer, since it did manage to wake them up from the usual 'I am an ice princess' Zzzzz programs. Given Russia bailed out WC last year, is it any surprise there won't be some kick backs in return in the long run?

I wonder if Kostner's PCS suffered (or not as inflated as much) because she skated right after Kanako, who actually exceed in the areas Kostner's PCS are usually marked high for, in particular speed and flow. Kanako did a great job with good transition and relentless speed, and simply did more body movements in her short program. Her 'more is more' is certainly more in this case. Although Kanako might not have the finer aesthetics some people look that a maturer skater, this is only her 2nd year. I happen to think aesthetics though important and precious should not take priority over sporting performance, technical difficulties, content and risks.

Contrary to many, I actually admire Mao's gutsy champion attitude going for the 3A and wondered if she plan to bring one to the LP. Although many seems to be puzzled and even criticized her/her team for it, but let's just say the Mao I knew and admire won't be satisfied with a 3T3T type of 'strategically safe' win. This is a lady who already made the record books putting out 2 x 3A at the Olympics, the natural successor from the country that produced the legendary Midori. Her goals is likely something else beside just another gold or a win at this point, but maybe uphold some sort of personal philosophy/mission/vision of what she herself considers as the highest accolade in skating beyond medals, beyond winning, determined by her own ego, pride and standards (Yes as all champions should have) and also part of her country's media / culture heritage. High risks, high reward, do or die headstrong attitude are the reasons I admire her and less of others competed today who might followed a dumbed down easier and safer route to their objective. Had she succeeded pursuing this glorious but difficult path, the win would have taste sweeter and infinitely more satisfying.

- Very nice 3Lutz3T from Elene, much improved skater for sure, pity about the 1A and the rest of her program didn't do much for me. Way to go for still holding up the standard!! Thumbs up!

- China's Zhang KeXin seem to be undermarked in PCS. Skated too early maybe.

- Look forward to Ashley's FS, I still think she has a chance to medal if she perform at her US national best. My favourite ladies program this year.

Overall, no one really stood out and made me go WOW that was amazing, something really special. A Chinese forum post suggested Kim's Giselle if performed this year would have easily gotten over 70+. I would certainly consider it to be a far more enriched and satisfying spectating experience. Though I admit when I finally got to appreciate Alena glamorous pirate in FULL HD yesterday on UK EUROSPORT, I thought the detailing in her gear are just stunning. Her boots had small Russian flag made of Swarovski bead crystals on the outside heel of her boots, and on the inside side, there's this pretty pattern which is very lovingly put together. I just love the attention to detail and the extreme length of how much fun she got into preparing her whole pirate gear, something she is obviously proud and happily (and perkily) got to flaunt. So 10/10 for her effort. Check out her pirate finger nail job, the detailing in her eye makeup complete with the shiny silver blink at the side to enhance her wink. This is one happy true RUSSIAN (in the bling bling sense) pirate already found her treasure in Morozov - current rain maker of Russian Figure Skating.

[mskater93]

I don't understand why the senior test only requires four different types of double jumps, and two different double/double combos, while the senior short requires a triple jump, and triple/double combo.

This is US Figureskating's Senior FS test, not a World Senior FS test. The reason why the 2Lz is the hardest element REQUIRED is that if you look at all the skaters who begin figure skating in the US, less than 1% actually achieve their Gold (Senior) FS test. There was a huge discussion at Governing Council several times over the last 10 years about the FS test requirements, but it was voted down because keeping the requirements at the 2Lz level makes a Senior FS test achievable for skaters who never attain a 2A and who perhaps change their goals when they reach high school to "test out" rather than "make it out of Regionals as a Senior Lady".

[Mathman]

What I was pointing out was that there seems to be this strong tradition of anointing winners in America and this kind of practice can create an environment where skaters end up not being properly motivated or trained.

Oh, I don't think so. Not at all. There are always surprises at U.S. Nationals. This year it was Ashley Wagner coming out of nowhere. Evan Lysacek was defending world champion and the best U.S. prospect for an Olympic medal, but he lost the 2010 pre-Olympic U,S. Nationals to Abbott. Abbott, in turn, was clearly favored in 2011, but Ryan Bradley (who? ) grabbed a big lead in the short program and held on for the win. (Ross Minor -- who? -- and Richard Dornbush -- who? -- also made the worlds team when better-known and better-connected skaters did not bring their A game to Nationals.

Caroline Zhang came out of juniors as the Queen of the May, being featured with big pictures in all USFSA publications in the summer and fall of 2007. She was miss next. But at 2008 U.S. Nationals it was Mirai Nagasu, who had played second fiddle to Zhang throughout their junior careers who jumped up with a surprise win at 2008 U.S. Nationals.

I would say it is the opposite of "anointing." Anybody can jump up and rock the house at U.S. Nationals and come away unexpectedly with the big prize.

[jenaj]

- China's Zhang KeXin seem to be undermarked in PCS. Skated too early maybe.

Definitely. COP hasn't stopped the judges from holding skaters back. Her tech score was the third highest.