03-29-2012, 08:49 PM
It just keeps getting weird. There's no way this would happen if Michelle or Sasha was skating.
Originally Posted by verte76
03-29-2012, 08:57 PM
May I ask someone who's expert on protocols, as to why judges were so harsh on Min junk kwak's underrotations?
Was really surprised to see her score after her good showing in 4cc.
03-29-2012, 09:06 PM
Six Point Zero
The protocols won't tell you what the judges were thinking. The tech specialist calls the downgrades, and the caller was Shin Amano, who has a reputation for strict calls with respect to rotations.
Originally Posted by loren
03-29-2012, 09:11 PM
It's the Tech Panel who makes the calls. And you can't compare one competition to another. Skaters perform differently and the TP may be stricter or more lenient in case of borderline violations. The judging panels too vary somewhat. The main thing is for them to be consistent and fair within the same event.
Originally Posted by loren
03-29-2012, 09:28 PM
Oh well, I just got to see the earlier skates of some of the top skaters (which I hadn't seen yet). Now that I have a better overall picture and looking at the judges' marks, it's clear that they are saying 3/3 is a must for the top women skaters. But also reputation and politics are a factor in the placements for those who made minor errors. Marakova, Elene G, and Ashley don't have top rep (Ashley hasn't been to Worlds for a few years, and her previous trip there was not successful, so apparently not landing 3/3 hurt her a lot). But, I don't think a step-out warrants such low scoring for Ashley especially since she did execute a good combination later. If you look at the fact that Elene G also made a mistake not doing a 2-axel, I think Ashley's marks (as someone else also noted) should be very close to Elene's (just as the judges have Akiko close to Mao, since Akiko doubled a triple, and Mao fell on her 3-axel attempt).
I am very impressed by Kanako Murakami's skate! Kanako skated with such confidence and passion -- her music was wonderful and the use of her arms was so lovely and dynamic. IMHO, Kanako should be in first. I think that Alena was over-scored. Yes, Alena was great on all her technical elements, and she skated with speed and confidence. However, on her Biellman spin Alena lost a lot of speed, and then she basically stopped, stood at the end of the rink and started mugging (Nikolai's bad influence, ugh). I think that points should be taken off when skaters stand in one position for that length of time, mugging (very reminiscent of Kat Witt at 1988 Olympics). Alena could have expressed the character of the musical theme without stopping that long -- she did another bit of mugging before it was all over too. Why should that be rewarded??? I understand Alena's desire for a quirky, different, edgy choice of choreo and music, but this program should not be rewarded so highly on PCS. Alena should not be in first! Plus her score is way too high as well, in comparison to what Kanako received.
I also thought Makarova and Kexin Zhang skated very good with no mistakes. They both just need more experience, confidence and attention to learning how to pull in the audience more. Alissa deserved a bit higher marks on PCS (IMHO), but I understand the judges unwillingness to do so b/c of the disrupting falls, which just yells lack of confidence. Ashley was not rated as highly as she should have been coming in as 4CC Champion -- it was chiefly Ashley's lack of doing a 3/3 that hurt her scores, but also she didn't get rep points -- she was definitely a bit undermarked.
Caro has strong programs, speed, reputation, politics in her favor, so unless she messes up on her jumps and others skate lights out, Caro will likely win gold. Sorry, but I really am not pulling at all for Alena, and at this point I hope she does not medal b/c she was so heavily over-scored when there was a problem on her Biellman spin and all that standing in place and mugging should not have been rewarded. A good example of staying in character but not standing in one place for too long is Richard Dornbush's fp from last season. Richard beautifully expressed the character of the musical theme, while continuing to skate.
At this point, I'd love to see: Kanako-gold; Mao-silver; Kostner-bronze; Ashley-4th; Akiko-5th; Alena-6th; Makarova-7th; Elene G-8th; Alissa-9th. I'd actually prefer to see Ashley pull up to bronze with Mao or Kostner in 4th, but Kostner is unlikely to not medal unless she implodes but I doubt that b/c she has a lot of confidence and good programs.
It is more likely to be: Kostner-gold; Mao-silver; Kanako-bronze, if she skates as well in fp, if not then Alena for silver or bronze, which I hope not; Akiko-4th (or Kanako 4th if she falters at all in fp; then Akiko, 5th); Ashley-6th, and perhaps Alissa 9th or 10th. If Alena wins silver, then Mao may take bronze or 4th if Kanako wins bronze.
Last edited by Art&Sport; 03-29-2012 at 09:32 PM.
03-29-2012, 09:43 PM
It is being shown in U.S. on Universal Sports television time-delayed (however, they showed the ladies sp live earlier today). They repeat the broadcasts in the evening as well. But, I guess a lot of people don't get Universal Sports anymore. I get it on DISH network. Tanith Belbin covered the ice dance with some announcer I am not familiar with; Peter C covered pairs with the same announcer; and Tara L covered the ladies. I wish Johnny Weir would be covering the men, but I'm afraid it is going to be Peter C again-- If it can't be Johnny, I'd prefer Paul W any day over Peter. The announcers for Universal Sports are in some anonymous studio in the U.S. -- they are not in Nice, France. Too bad Terry Gannon perhaps was not available to be the main announcer with the former skater announcers.
Originally Posted by verte76
03-29-2012, 09:53 PM
I think so, too.
Originally Posted by Tesla
Then if Ashley can move up to fifth...
03-29-2012, 10:06 PM
Thinking Czisny will do any better than 12th is putting too much faith in her IMHO...
She failed EVERY jump in the SP. Nothing makes me think she will do a 180 in just a couple of days...
She peaked last season. She has no more fight left in her. That is evident.
03-29-2012, 10:07 PM
This was my overall impression of the programs as well. I wouldn't necessarily say that Leonova was overscored, just that at the very least she and Murikami should be about tied. Leonova had great speed and her face just beams when she is on the ice and it is infectious. Her jumps were beautiful. But this was not a great choreography. I thought there were a few pretty glaring areas where there should have been negative GOEs at least. Both of her spins came to a virtual standstill, it was painful. And the step sequence was a lot of mugging, chopped up with a lot of stopping and resting. Not to mention that the whole sword fight thing is pretty recycled by now. None of these things are huge deductions, but nevertheless should impact the overall score.
Originally Posted by Art&Sport
Murikami also had beautiful jumps, a more sophisticated choreography and lovely expression of the music. There was no stopping to rest while mugging at the audience. The scores, while not a huge distance apart as it is, should have at least been closer, IMO.
My favourite program was Kostner's. So frustrating that she doubled the jump. But her attention to the music and the sophistication of the program really outshone everyone else. Hoping for good things for her in the long. I wasn't a huge fan of hers when she first began competing, as I felt her great speed seemed to make the judges overlook some of her less sterling qualities — such as the fact that she was not totally comfortable with and in control of her long limbs, which are now a big plus for her, creating gorgeous lines. Now she has everything it takes and is truly a joy to watch.
03-29-2012, 10:15 PM
Skating is art, if you let it be.
Kexin Zhang is blooming, she surprised me again. Should have been ahead of Wagner.
I also agree with most here that Murakami deserved to win this SP. She skated with equal technical excellence and energy compared to Leonova, but it's a better program (both in terms of Transitions and Choreography) and should have been rewarded as such.
Elene Gedevanishvili has the potential to be a World Champion. In the SP at 2006 Olympics it looked like she would be heading there but everything afterward was a disappointment. For 6 years I've been waiting for her to show that potential again. It's too bad she singled the Axel here, but the 3Lutz-3Toe was superb and her speed is exceptional and her personality endearing. I hope she seriously pushes herself and continues to build upon this.
03-29-2012, 10:16 PM
I think Kexin Zhang 's PCS is too low. never saw her live but from the Vedic she appeared to be fast and crispy clean and performed very well. she has the third highest tes but pcs is way down. hopefully she skates well enough to maintain in the top ten, and get higher pcs.
love Mao's skating, happy for the young Japaness girl, she's a bundle of joy. Elena's combo was huge and love her energy.
wish everybody good luck and skate clean or cleanish at least. I so hope Mao win, but would be happy if someone else skate light out and win the gold.
03-29-2012, 10:18 PM
and... World Peace!
with all the doom and gloom I expected a train wreck for Ashley. It wasn't her best, but it wasn't as awful as people make it out to be.
03-29-2012, 10:23 PM
^^^^ Ashley is not a bomber. She may not be perfect but she will fight for the program. Sadly Alissa lacks such mental toughness.
03-29-2012, 10:28 PM
Man, if Leonova medals, she'll make it royally hard for the Russian fed to dump her next season. I feel like I'm gonna go to figure skating hell for saying this, but she's rather like Wier in that category.
03-29-2012, 10:35 PM
You make good points too rain. I have been up-and-down about Carolina. I thought at one point that she would just take off because she has the looks, the speed, the great potential. After she was briefly coached by Frank C, she seemed to develop more polish and better costumes. Her problem has been consistency on the jumps, and the fact that she does not do all of the jumps. I really find that to be a glaring fault in today's ladies' field, partly due to IJS judging system which is based on points and so allows skaters and their coaches to strategize their programs in a way that forgives not doing all the basic jumps. Another fault that I have with Carolina is that altho' I sympathize with the great pressure on her as the main champion of her country and how she was over-hyped for the 2006 Olympics and fared poorly, she has been on the scene for a long time, able to go to Worlds year after year and work out the kinks, often gifted with medals when her performances were undeserving. Who else gets chances like that? At this point, Carolina should be head and shoulders above everyone, no mistakes, and no faltering on her jumps. Yes, she does have perhaps the best programs in the field -- I just wish she would go out there with freedom and shock and awe -- and I wish she would perform all the basic jumps. If she never does (like Yu Na too was unable to do), I have to say that I don't hold this generation of ladies skaters in very high stead.
For the poster complaining about this being a U.S. thread -- not true. Understandably a lot of posters were discussing Phil Hersh's article and there has been a lot of discussion about Alissa, but surely you can see that there is a reason for that. Alissa flopped, but without question she is a top skater. This thread has been mainly discussing the top skaters.
Therefore, let me say this about Yrethe Silete of France. I thought Silete skated extremely well with a fine 3/3 -- I haven't seen if it was downgraded -- perhaps the landing on the second triple got -GOE, but I think Silete should be ahead of Glebova (who fell); Lacoste who did double turns in between her two combo jumps; McCorkell who is not a strong skater -- she lumbers across the ice and only did a 3/2 for her combo, plus she waayyy over-telegraphed her 3-lutz; and Valentina Marchei, who is also not a strong skater plus she had a very glaring error on a landing, much worse than the turn-out Silete had on one of her jumps. Other than that one minor mistake, Silete is an engaging skater with nice lines, good presentation and very good technique on her jumps and in-betweens (unlike former eligible French skater, Surya Bonaly). Silete is also skating in her home country, so What Up with her not scoring higher, particularly over the other ladies I mentioned??
Everyone works so hard from every country, as we all know, but not everyone is a strong skater with good skills. Too bad that this is where politics and make-up of judging and technical panels comes into play.