Ice Dance - Free Dance | Page 20 | Golden Skate

Ice Dance - Free Dance

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 27, 2009
Mrs. P, if you've got a problem w/a poster and how they're posting, then use the little triangle w/the ! mark in it that's in the lower left corner of all the posts around here and report that poster to the Mods. BTW if you think things in here are heated and nasty, might I suggest you never go into FSU's Competition Threads. This *is* the tame and classy place and what I've seen in here tonight is not that bad compared to other events/results people had problems w/in the past.

Sure I could use the report poster thread; but I prefer just saying it to the general audience. That's just how I roll. I don't particularly enjoy reporting people unless they're being trolls. I believe in diplomatic gentle reminders, but that's me.

I've heard that other boards are much nastier, yes, but that doesn't mean everyone should accept nastiness, even if it's it's less.


Also (not aimed directly at you Tigger, but just using your thoughts as a base):
I get that some people can't warm up to D/W, but I can't agree that they're doomed or they aren't growing. If you just go an look at D/W from the 2006-2007 to now, you can see they have grown leaps and bounds. And they will continue to grow, because that's their MO.

And Die Fideramus is a different program for D/W. It's not a HUGE departure for those two, but it's nothing like Samson and Delilah or Phantom of the Opera or even the Tango they did last year. And personally, I like their interpretation. I sort of see it as a more jovial, fun version. The music they took from the opera are from those fun and joyful scenes, so to me I think their interpretation works.

There are people who have said the same thing about V/M (can't warm up or do not prefer their programs), but somehow those people are taken as "delusional D/W fans" who don't get the greatness of V/M. (not saying you're saying this Tigger, but I've seen that said quite a bit on these boards).

So you don't enjoy D/W and think V/M is better. That's fine. In fact, it's chocolate or strawberry as far as I'm concerned. In fact. I like both flavors.

ETA: I realize I haven't said much about Funny Face. I like it. Actually V/M did a great job on it and I do agree they added some great nuance to it since they performed it earlier this eason. But I think their best performance came at 4CC, not here today. But I think they did enough in the SD to win anyway. I think I would probably question the margin in the FD (again, watch the dances see where the levels came into play) and perhaps the PCS could be a smige closer (but as I said, pulling hairs, so I'm not sure how that's possible).

I do not think Scott and Tessa were Fred and Aubrey. Quite frankly, I don't want them to be. Fred was in his 50s and had a huge age gap. I think Scott and Tessa did find with their on characterization of it.
 
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claphappy

On the Ice
Joined
Oct 24, 2011
Funny Face the movie suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuccccccccccccckkkkkkkkkkkksssssssssssssss.... Funny Face the FD is beautiful...

I like D/W's program a tad more, but Tessa and Scott really did a great job playing their characters.

I've never seen Funny Face, so I don't have an opinion; but oh, reading this made my heart happy~!
 

Selene

On the Ice
Joined
Feb 7, 2012
The judging and technical panels were stacked against Davis/White in this competition (the technical specialist was Canadian:rolleye:) They had no chance to win this event, and the judging today proved it. They outskated Virtue/Moir, but were not rewarded for their effort. Many other competitors received season's best scores at this event, but the scores for Davis/White were very low.
 

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 27, 2009
RE: twizzles.

If you want to be outraged at the scores, the Twizzlers aren't the place to do it anyway.

Meryl and Charlie beat Tessa and Scott here with a +GOE of 1.29 vs 1.00.

Also Davis and White got 5 +3 and the rest were 2s. Virtue and Moir got just one 3, mostly 2 and even a +1. So the judges said, yes Meryl and Charlie executed the twizzles better.
 

heyhey

On the Ice
Joined
Dec 31, 2011
Well on a positive note - we still have WTT to look forward to....The overall placements from 4th to 10th were interesting. Sochi is still 2 seasons away and nothing is set in stone....I think if the ISU keeps this "uplifting rule" until Sochi the gap will narrow between the teams.
 

Tonichelle

Idita-Rock-n-Roll
Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 27, 2003
The judging and technical panels were stacked against Davis/White in this competition (the technical specialist was Canadian:rolleye:) They had no chance to win this event, and the judging today proved it. They outskated Virtue/Moir, but were not rewarded for their effort. Many other competitors received season's best scores at this event, but the scores for Davis/White were very low.

Neither D/W OR V/M got their seasons best.
 

katia

On the Ice
Joined
Feb 20, 2006
The judging and technical panels were stacked against Davis/White in this competition (the technical specialist was Canadian:rolleye:) They had no chance to win this event, and the judging today proved it. They outskated Virtue/Moir, but were not rewarded for their effort. Many other competitors received season's best scores at this event, but the scores for Davis/White were very low.

Well, and if the american pair wouldr win and the tech specialist would be an American some people would say -- "oh but the tech specialist is fair and he/she has nothing to do with winning the competition". "Americans deserved to win."
Also before the competition fans of D/W said things like "V/M are going down" "V/M can not win" "V/M are much worse and D/W improved so much but Canadians did not" so now they have to say "it is all Tech specialist's fault"
I think that the Canadian and Amercian pairs are very close and the differences between them are infinitesimal. Sometimes V/M are better, sometimes D/W are better. Some people prefer V/M, others prefer D/W. and the ice is slippery.
Myself I enjoy watching both pairs, although today I liked V/M better.
 

hurrah

Medalist
Joined
Aug 8, 2009
I just saw V/M and D/W's programs on Youtube and I thought D/W was much better. V/M's unison was slightly off in this performance compared to D/W's usual perfect unison, and V/M's edges did not seem to be as clean and smooth as compared to their usual standard. D/W were faster than V/M, they had more pizazz, and their choreography appeared more daring and complex.
 

Macassar88

Medalist
Joined
Dec 21, 2011

katia

On the Ice
Joined
Feb 20, 2006
"choreography appeared more daring and complex."? Really?
For me it was nice, very pretty, and somehow empty . I prefer their previous programs, this one does not do much for me.
btw at the beginning of the competition I noticed a pair from Azerbaijan, they had spectacular lifts, modern choreography and very interesting music.
 
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hurrah

Medalist
Joined
Aug 8, 2009
"choreography appeared more daring and complex."? Really?
For me it was nice, very pretty, and somehow empty . I prefer their previous programs, this one does not do much for me.
btw at the beginning of the competition I noticed a pair from Azerbaijan, they had spectacular lifts, modern choreography and very interesting music.

Appeared more daring and complex not compared to their previous programs but to V/M's Funny Face program.
 

blainechan

Match Penalty
Joined
Mar 26, 2012
W/P should have won the bronze....the French didn't skate well. It's almost like they were told "Honey, postpond your surgery. Just show up, skate, don't $#@% up and the bronze will be yours. Promise."
 

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 27, 2009
Okay, now that I got back from a quick 2-mile run, my brain is clear! Yay!

Anyway, closer look at the scores:

The majority of the +GOE lead (75 percent or .28 of a point) came from one of the diagonal in-hold step sequence, the same one D/W got a level 3 on.

Here is the +GOE breakdown element by element
Diagonal in Hold Step Sequence: V/M won on levels (1.5 difference) + .28 margin (2.14 vs 1.86)
Twizzles (both got level 4): D/W won by .29 of a point (1.29 vs 1.00)
Circular Step Sequence (both got level 3): Tied. (both got 2.00)
Spin (both got level 4): D/W won by .07 (1.00 vs. 93) — virtual tie, really.
Lifts: V/M wins by .43 ( 5.21 vs 4.78)

So as you can, from an execution standpoint...it was really close. They were prettty much tied in two elements, V/M won in lifts and step sequence and D/W won in twizzles.

Looking back at past competitions, D/W has not scored level four on that hand-in-hold step sequence for their FD all this season, not even in the GPF final. In fact, they changed the step sequence from a Midline-in-hold step sequence to a diagonal in hold step sequence. V/M on the other hand has consistently earned level 4 in their head-to-head matchups.

So I guess Meryl and Charlie will have to work on being more precise on the steps, which is totally doable.

So in the end both the V/M fans and the D/W fans had truth in their assessments of the two FDs.
 
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Art&Sport

Medalist
Joined
Apr 28, 2011
Meryl and Charlie will be fine, and they are gracious as always, unlike sulky "we're the best" Scott. Meryl and Charlie will continue to work hard as always too -- they have the best precision of any team at the exceptional high speed they generate, and that can't be denied.

Yes, V/M had fine blade work, but they were skating pretty slow in sections, so at a slower speed its easier to get blade placement exact. What a cheesy dud of a program their Funny Face is. Sure they made improvements and skated it better in Nice than at the beginning of the season. But it is too bad that this FF program won V/M Worlds -- what an awful shame that D/W's better music and program (which D/W skated quite beautifully as always with their great speed and intricacy) was downgraded so that V/M could come out on top by a significant margin. I still believe the scoring for D/W was influenced by the fact that there were no U.S. representatives on the judging and technical panels. Even W/P had better music and overall greater impact with the drama of their program than V/M did. A lot of the top couples had better-themed programs than V/M. Okay so V/M won on mastery of technique and line, but what a shame that it was for this program. They are definitely not head and shoulders above D/W and the final scores should not have been that far apart -- smacks to me of a bit of insurance from those on the panels who favored V/M. I also dislike the fact that Scott has been so vocal with the media claiming that he and Tessa are the best. Looks like TPTB perked up and agreed with him to the point of there being no U.S. officials on the judging and technical panels. Perhaps Zoueva and Shpilband have a secret formula working to keep their teams training together without conflict, but I do wonder how the magic formula can last if V/M are going to be kept on a pedestal by the judges for the next two years. D/W and V/M are different in their styles and strengths but overall there is not much that separates them in terms of talent and ability, except for subjective perceptions (and ever-present politics).

The French P/B are quite good, but were definitely held up b/c of their veteran status, clean skate in their home country, and their technical skills. Sure they improved the character of this old old program to a degree, but by this time, I was tired of seeing the same old program with all the bandages. I thought W/P should have been in third, and I thought the Italians C/L should have been in front of the Russians I/K. Too bad for the Shibs this season. They worked very hard but are still so young and have time to improve -- they had to stretch themselves this year for the Latin style of dance. Not great tho' how the Shibs were torn down with criticism so much b/c many were upset they won bronze last year. This was not a great Worlds for the Shibs, and I don't argue with their placement (but again politics does have a lot to do with how they have been received this year).
 
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cassiem

On the Ice
Joined
Oct 28, 2011
btw at the beginning of the competition I noticed a pair from Azerbaijan, they had spectacular lifts, modern choreography and very interesting music.
Shame on the judges for not rewarding Zlobina/Sitnikov at all in PCS (they were 16th in PCS). Most scandalous judging so far. I'm upset for the couple and for the sport of ice dancing because the judges just sent a loud signal that they don't care about originality.

My other favorite program was Cappellini/Lanotte. The podium finishers were a bit meh for me.
 
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IceCastles1814

Rinkside
Joined
Aug 20, 2003
Congrats to the medalists! And to W&P for such a strong competition. I'm really happy for V&M. I think overall they won fair and square. We can agree to disagree on the margin in the FD, but many thought V&M could have had a bigger lead in the SD. V&M and D&W are just two very different teams and their fans value different aspects of ice dance and figure skating (and music). There's nothing wrong with that. And I don't get the grudge against Scott voicing his opinion, in particular at the GPF. I've not been around the boards much this season, but fans in general have always whined about skaters being too PC. Is it only okay if you agree with them? In any case, to my knowledge, the ISU admitted to an error at the GPF. Also using the no [insert country] judge/caller complaint is a slippery slope that always comes back to bite those that use it. I won't say that it's been never a factor, but it's often misused by fans simply disappointed with results without looking more deeply into each individual situation where that's occurred.

Point is, in a competition of close rivals, it's going to always be a case of picking up the highest levels, the +GOE, every single little thing in order to win. On any given night, many might like one or the other's performance better, but it's the combined elements plus the performance that win under COP.
 

tampro1

Rinkside
Joined
Oct 30, 2005
I'm really loving what's coming out of the Carmelengo and Krilova camp. I just want to say WOW, WOW, WOW to W/P. For me that was the performance of the competition. It was so emotional and beautiful skating. They won me over tonight. I know many will disagree, but...V/M were just boring. I just found this Funny Face....just funny, cheesy and uninspiring. I'm not sure how the judges scored that. Even V/M admitted they made some mistakes and were not perfect in some of their post interviews. lol They are one of the best of all time and capable of so much more and that was not it. That program will certainly not be one of their signature programs ala Mahler. P/B were held up being a veteran team on home ice. I don't see this team ever reaching the world podium again. W/P have already passed them up and the Italians are right there as well. D/W probably should of won gold today. They skated their hearts out and their FD is just a masterpiece. That will be a signature piece for them. I think getting such high scores during the season hurt them as the resulting complaints affected the judging. They were obviously disappointed but as always gracious. They won't be complaining about the results like others.
 
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calstudent

Rinkside
Joined
Mar 30, 2012
ugh people, stop. we all love scott and tessa. they have an awesome chemistry together and their programs - my god, from valse triste to pink floyd to mahler - were awe-inspiring. we get it. i was even rooting for them during the vancouver olympics. but there's no way, no ******* way you could possibly argue they outskated meryl and charlie in Nice this year. they were fast, crisp, and their choreography was far better than anything we've seen in the last two years (i.e. did you notice how their lifts fit the music perfectly?). I've seen both programs multiple times on youtube this year and if anything commentators seem to agree with me. they were dazzled by the die fledermaus FD and underwhelmed by the funny face routine. So sure, go ahead, you can argue for as long as you want on how funny face was "ground-breaking" (which it clearly wasn't. mahler? yes. pink floyd? a BIG YES. funny face? not so much. i.e. Grishuk & Platov in 1994, in case you've forgotten, used an American rock song to win gold at the olympics) or technically superior to die fledermaus (now really?? -.- not to mention that tessa and scott weren't at their best), but meryl and charlie should've won the FD. or at the very least beaten the Canadians in Program Components score. if you're still not convinced, i dare you to look at the crowd reactions again and see for yourself which program stood out more for the audience.
 

Art&Sport

Medalist
Joined
Apr 28, 2011
Ah, IceCastles, but it's one thing to not be predictably PC in one's response, and quite another to complain as boorishly as Scott did, which smacks of bad sportsmanship. There is a way to be confident and voice some disappointment in your marks w/o in essence dismissing your closest competitors and looking peeved and childish. I like the way Meryl and Charlie respond, and I wouldn't call their responses PC. In fact, D/W are always gracious and sportsmanlike, while at the same time expressing confidence in their abilities w/o dismissing their competitors. D/W are competitive and confident without being arrogant.

In fact, it may not be the same fans who have whined about PC responses who are upset about Scott's poor response after the GPF. I do believe that Scott was spoken to by his coaches re his post-GPF comments. They probably told Scott to channel his emotion into training hard with Tessa to make improvements to their free dance.

Still very much a shame the way D/W were downgraded. They gave their utmost and have to feel great knowing they skated their fp wonderfully all season long, and especially at the World Championships. The marks they received in Nice remind me of how they were low-balled on their outstanding and innovative SD at the 2010 Olympics.
 
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