Ice Dance - Free Dance | Page 19 | Golden Skate

Ice Dance - Free Dance

ImaginaryPogue

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 3, 2009
I would put money on it. People were saying all season that V&M and D&W were in a league of their own, miles ahead of the others, untouchable but just look at the numbers from Nice to see how the playing field just got leveled. I thought the first shake-up was going to come here in Nice but I think P&B just didn't have a good enough FD theme to overtake the other two. If they had last years FD I think the podium might have been a bit different.

Oh, the fact that it was P/B to close the gap is actually against the idea of a real shake-up. But other thoughts percolate....
 

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 27, 2009
From Ice Network:

When asked what were the reasons for the 2.7 points between them and Virtue and Moir in the free dance, Davis and White could not provide any answer.

"We do not know, but we will be willing to find out what the judges are expecting so that we can come back stronger," Davis said. "We're aiming for progress. Concerning our performance here, we're really proud of it."

Classy as always, Ms. Davis.
 

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 27, 2009
Also awesome:
It actually did, but Alex tumbled on their opening twizzles, and Maia looked completely lost for a short while before catching him again.

"It's been a challenge [to complete the program after that]," Alex said afterward. "But we train so hard for every possible situation that we managed to come back strong after that. It's another learning experience to put under our belts. We'll come back stronger next year."
 

romanoff81

Match Penalty
Joined
Nov 20, 2004
Mrs P translating fred astraire and an iconic oscar winning actress is risky especially for a movie that was not well known, the lifts by virtue and moir are superior and all new their GOE higher than D&W, the skating skills and step sequences better in unison V&M skate closer together the dance holds more seamless, Charlie has to do running steps to catch Meryl who can hit fugly positions sometimes.
 

Simoncat

Rinkside
Joined
Jan 16, 2010
Boo yeah, Canada keeps three spots as expected, hopefully the third one goes to Ralph/Hill again next year and not the insufferable Piper Gilles and Paul Poirier.

Many of us long time fans are concerned that without the Bronze as protection even W/P are vulnerable to the politics which accompany G/P now and C/P in the past. In my opinion,W/P have always been the superior team and P and whatever partner hasn't got what W/P have always had.
 

heyhey

On the Ice
Joined
Dec 31, 2011
Davis/White completely attacked that program, they were flying out there, and skated totally crisp. It was technically better than Virtue/Moir and I found their overall musical interpretation to be better as well. Virtue/Moir still show the best range and interpersonal connection and performance ability out of any dance team out there, but they didn't skate this their best and it's not one of their best dances.

Interesting that neither D/W or V/M had personal best scores with their FD at worlds. V/M have acknowledged that this was not their best performance of this program; however this was not D/W's best performance either - in my opinion and I think that D/W would agree. The point difference perhaps should not have been as great, but I think overall V/M did deserve to win based on both the SD and the FD. I agree that this is not my favorite FD from V/M - however it will be interesting to see what programs both D/W and V/M come up with next year....my two cents..
 

ImaginaryPogue

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 3, 2009
I don't think "Funny Face" was groundbreaking in general, but I do think it was a risk for V/M. The music is rooted in the American/Broadway idiom (in a sport that's culturally more European than anything), they're working with iconic figures (so if they fail, they feel like palid imitations). They haven't really tackled a story/character piece, so it was new for them as well, along with a broader emotional range than any program they've done.

CAS, I'd be interested in hearing more thoughts about P/B. It's hard not to feel like this is a lifetime achievement award of sorts - a medal for skating well under duress on home ice.
 

leafygreens

Final Flight
Joined
Mar 7, 2011
I share the same feelings, but nontheless...the fact that they got so much more in the FD with mistakes (even Russian commentator was surprised with the 4 level twizzles) makes me unhappy. DW skated more beautifully, that dance suits them.

D/W's twizzles are the best in the business. V/M's are much slower. How they got a 4 is a travesty of justice.
 

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 27, 2009
Mrs P translating fred astraire and an iconic oscar winning actress is risky especially for a movie that was not well known, the lifts by virtue and moir are superior and all new their GOE higher than D&W, the skating skills and step sequences better in unison V&M skate closer together the dance holds more seamless, Charlie has to do running steps to catch Meryl who can hit fugly positions sometimes.

Okay a few things.

1.) Funny Face is a very well-known movie. I love that movie actually. It's considered a movie classic and garnered several Academy Award nominations. Also Gershwin songs are pretty well known. S'Wonderful is a very popular standard.
2.) Again WHY are the lifts higher than D/W? You can't just say it's "superior."
3.) Do you have any photos of these "fugly positions" you speak of?
 

romanoff81

Match Penalty
Joined
Nov 20, 2004
After rewatching the programs i think the french deserved bronze, weaver and poje were incredible but all the lifts they used this year were from past programs, i do concede the french did really push the boundaries there on their lifts, they skate faster as well although the second half of their program did lose energy somewhat.
 

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 27, 2009
I don't think "Funny Face" was groundbreaking in general, but I do think it was a risk for V/M. The music is rooted in the American/Broadway idiom (in a sport that's culturally more European than anything), they're working with iconic figures (so if they fail, they feel like palid imitations). They haven't really tackled a story/character piece, so it was new for them as well, along with a broader emotional range than any program they've done.

CAS, I'd be interested in hearing more thoughts about P/B. It's hard not to feel like this is a lifetime achievement award of sorts - a medal for skating well under duress on home ice.

Hm, OK. I guess I could see where you're coming from. Interesting point of doing "American" music in the European standard of ID. That is probably why the Shibs' piece was not well received (though they did American music last year and that was scored much better...). The key is execution, I guess?

But why should D/W be penalized for doing music that suits them this year? Just because they didn't pick challenging music (per the definition, I suppose), the program itself was still quite challenging with a lot of great transitions. (I'm not really aiming this at you IP, just thinking out loud.)

Music is just one essence of the FD...
 
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Tonichelle

Idita-Rock-n-Roll
Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 27, 2003
Funny Face the movie suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuccccccccccccckkkkkkkkkkkksssssssssssssss.... Funny Face the FD is beautiful...

I like D/W's program a tad more, but Tessa and Scott really did a great job playing their characters.
 

Tigger

Final Flight
Joined
Jan 18, 2007
leafygreensI seriously doubt the judges care at all what Scott Moir thinks of them. I'd probably say the exact same thing if I felt that I worked my tail off to get to a certain point but it didn't pay off the way I wanted it to. People get frustrated, get over it.

I think it's laughable that people actually think the judges propped V/M up because Scott was upset in a media article. Seriously?

Thank you!! What I find funny and have ever since it happened was how many complain about the pat answers the skaters give after a performance and, "Oh...How I wish the skaters would just say how they really felt in these things." However when that finally happens, the skater gets labelled a stuck up jerk from now until the end of time. Scott said something stupid in the heat of the moment in front of a microphone. It's called being human and it happens.

Also Scott's a bit of a character and people like that don't always think before speaking. Goodness knows Kurt Browning's been on certain people's hate lists from back when he did his first commentating for NBC at 94 Worlds and called Michelle Kwan "kind of sexy". Even he said he screwed up on that one and didn't think how that would sound once spoken, but I remember when CBC hired him for this current commentating job, many were still holding that against him and getting on their high horses "fearing" for what he'd say now. Not that the actual facts 94 Worlds had been the first time he'd ever done commentating of any kind and that Kurt had learned from it ever came into it. Oh no...SkateGods forbid!!

Just as some have a grudge against Kurt for something so stupid, I won't be surprised to keep seeing what Scott said in December to keep popping up from now until who knows when as well. Some just can't let go for whatever reason.

Mrs. P, if you've got a problem w/a poster and how they're posting, then use the little triangle w/the ! mark in it that's in the lower left corner of all the posts around here and report that poster to the Mods. BTW if you think things in here are heated and nasty, might I suggest you never go into FSU's Competition Threads. This *is* the tame and classy place and what I've seen in here tonight is not that bad compared to other events/results people had problems w/in the past.

What I don't care for is when someone who isn't a Moderator decides to post multiple postings telling us all how to behave. That's how things are on a skating board during Worlds and Olympics. They can get heated and nasty. It's been that way ever since the mid 90's when the online skating boards first started and I don't see it changing. That's what happens when people invest so much into a sport or anything they feel so personally about.

If you don't care for what's being said, either report it or ignore it, but don't keep lecturing us please. That gets rather old too.

Now on to my thoughts about Meryl and Charlie....

I'm not mad about where V/M and D/W ended up on the podium. I have a far different problem when it comes to Meryl and Charlie...

I truly do believe that V/M and D/W ended up exactly where I believe they deserved and regardless of what some might think about the marks, they're not that far apart. Not really. Yes, I do love Tessa and Scott and am thrilled after everything they've been through the last two years they got their title back. My problem is that I want to love Meryl and Charlie too, but only like them because there's just...Something missing there for me and I can't put my finger on it. I'm not sure if it's because due to their speed they can cross over into frantic skating so easily at times or (and this could be it for me) IMO they're not that versititle.

IMO, I think it just might be their speed that's the problem there too. Because they're so fast (we call them the Whirling Dervishes of Skating, as the speed on their twizzles and spins just blow us away every time) there's only so much music out there that works w/them and they need that powerful music. To me, their S&D FD from the 08-09 Season is exactly the kind of stuff I'm talking about. I still think that's the best program they've ever had. Even to today. It fit them, the music allowed them to use their speed to their advantage and also their rawness I pick up from them also worked w/that music.

That could be why some of us just haven't been able to warm up to their FD this year. I usually adore a program done to what is one of my very favourite pieces of Classical Music, but a program like that needs softnees and finesse. It doesn't matter how hard they work at it, Meryl and Charlie will never be soft or finesse type skaters. As I've said, they have this rawness to them and their skating that no one else out there has, but instead of working w/what they've got, their speed and rawness, they seem to be trying to do the opposite kind of programs and...It does feel a bit fake to some and I hate saying that about them, but there it is.

I actually think something like W/P's Je Suis Malade FD would be incredable for Meryl and Charlie. It's powerful, it's passionate and raw and they would just shine IMO. Instead, the direction they have been going down just isn't doing it for me and others and is a dis service to them as well. If there's anyone in Canton who need to go somewhere else for Choreography, it's Meryl and Charlie IMO.

This could be the reason why some of us feel, that while Meryl and Charlie were so good at the beginning of the Season, the program seemed to stagnate a wee bit as the Season went on. Because perhaps they'd already taken it as far as they could take it. Whereas if you go back to look at Tessa and Scott's programs, both of them, they're *very* different programs that were skated the last two days than what was debuted back at Skate Canada. Because of that, the programs kept evolving and growing and hadn't yet reached that peak that Meryl and Charlie did right at the very first.

As I said, it's all JMO, but I just can't seem to warm up to Meryl and Charlie and I want to. I also think it's part of the reason why many of us get that whiff of something not "real" about their skating. Because they don't fit that cookie cutter Dance mold, but the coaching team behind them is trying to do just that and it's not helping. Sure an Olympic Silver, a couple of World medals and a World Title are amazing accomplishments, but I have this strange feeling Meryl and Charlie have not even come close to reaching their potential and I don't think they will if they stay in Canton.

And now I need to end this before I babble anymore. :eek:D
 

ImaginaryPogue

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 3, 2009
Hm, OK. I guess I could see where you're coming from. Interesting point of doing "American" music in the European standard of ID. That is probably why the Shibs' piece was not well received (though they did American music last year and that was scored much better...). The key is execution, I guess?

But why should D/W be penalized for doing music that suits them this year? Just because they didn't pick challenging music (per the definition, I suppose), the program itself was still quite challenging with a lot of great transitions. (I'm not really aiming this at you IP, just thinking out loud.)

Music is just one essence of the FD...

Shibs: Well, yes. The PCS the Shibs received year to year remained within two points at Worlds 2011 and 2012. The TES... well, that varied by 12+ points. Additionally, with the Shibs, it couldn't help but feel of more-of-the-same to a good portion of people - V/M went from a Latin medley FD to Funny Face (and FF wasn't that well received either, as much as I love it).

D/W: Were they penalized for a perfect music choice? I mean, the hurricane of hype surrounding Fliedermaus didn't do much for me and even now I admire their technical facility without being impressed by it in any way here, but were they actually penalized for it in your perception? I'm a huge fan of Funny Face, if only for Donen's glorious use of colour, though, so take that into consideration.
 

Skater Boy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 24, 2012
It was really sad to see the shibs make such a big mistake; they seem like really nice people and technically sound but they will be back. I have seen a lot of the top teams skate better their fd including D and W and V and M. It is so close between them and espite the scores I think P and B were way overmarked. I know I will get killed but heck I can see W and P and I and K both beating them here with these performances - however, the momentum was clearly with P and B being in France. I really sense though they are about to be overtaken by at least two if not up to 4 or 5 teams. they have great concepts although I do see similar moves from them each year. P and B could have lost a point for good taste for their costume this year in the FD too. I guess the mommy started to unravel??? LOL Didn't even have enough material or bandages for her poor nose. I think one of the poster pointed out something - real judges are trained to look for certain things. Even in 2002 at the Olympics the issue about B and S versus S and P from Canada could easily have been decided by who had higher artistry marks. It was possible for B and S to win on artistry evenif their technical elements were only second and in fact some say the transitions, skating skills et al were far better by B and s so that could also explain the win. Likewise V and M though not my favourite dance I can see why they may have been given first over D and W; i do think D and W could have been closer in the FD but should have been marked down in the Short dance. I still cannot see why p and b were so close to d and w. In fact if anything p and b should have been thrilled with the bronze and holding off Weaver and Poje and heck I and K as well. Only three medals. I admit I don't like always what Scott Moir says although I am not sure if we understand the context. However, I do appreciate him being real. AS much as I like Michelle Kwan for example sometimes her answer while classy are so miss america that they are of little value or substances. It is refreshing to hear some honesty. Johnny Weir called it as he sees it and that makes skating and news interesting. Do we really need to hear "I just needed to skate for myself, I can't control the judges or the medals all I have to do is be satisfied I am the very best and learn from each and every opportunity yada yada yada." It's almost a useless statement.

I am happy in a way Russia held on to three spots; thrilled P and B got bronze but I sadly think it is time for them to go as much as I like to say go when you want too - it's time they really are lucky they got such amazing marks. They could have the bronze curse anyways and we could see them down in eight or so - ala Shibitanis and wasn't that the same for the year after the Germans won bronze or the Israeli's won bronze. Got to know when to leave hopefully on top.
 

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 27, 2009
But now that I put my thought out loud, was D/W penalized for using "safe" music and was V/M rewarded for using "risky" music?

I'd say the answer is no. As I said, V/M only beat D/W in PCS by 0.85. And that margin came on 4 out of 5 PCS scores. They were tied in performance and composition with 9.68.

As for the other scores where music would be a factor:
Choreography — V/M won by .18
Interpretation — V/M won by .18

If you look at the protocals:
Both couples got 9s and a couple of 10s. It really came down to who gave a 9.75 instead of a 9.5. We're talking picking hairs here! How would you determine that you give a team a 9.5 vs. a 9.75?
 

skatingbc

Final Flight
Joined
Jan 2, 2009
D/W's twizzles are the best in the business. V/M's are much slower. How they got a 4 is a travesty of justice.

Once again, levels are not directly related with how WELL something is performed. V/M completed the requirements to receive a level 4. End of story.
 
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