Ice Dance - Free Dance | Page 17 | Golden Skate

Ice Dance - Free Dance

sky_fly20

Match Penalty
Joined
Nov 20, 2011
^^^^
yes indeed :)
I'd love to give it a try

* the Shibs ? they need more passion and stop skating like you are still juniors
* C/L - They will be the next P/B
*P/B - This was their last chance to medal at worlds and they did, good for them
they can compete until 2014 but isn't a guarantee anything they will stay successful .imo, they should retire after their 2012 Worlds medal
*W/P - They will podium very soon in world/grand prix final competitions, I can see them pulling an upset from D/W
*B/S - I/K - S/Z - B/S are done, it was just a matter of time before I/K surpass them but the real star will be S/Z.
S/Z the only ones I could think of newbies to challenge V/M and D/W by 2014
 

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 27, 2009

Just a thought:

There are classless D/W fans and classless V/M fans. As there have been intelligent and engaging fans of both.

I get that everyone has their favorites, but I wish that people would not paint an entire group of fans with a broad stroke. That is unfair to people like Doris, who prefers D/W but has spent much of her time explaining why people win or lose or Northern Dancers, who has shown preference to V/M but has spent time explaining her/his points.

Let's all work together to keep the discussion classy, OK. :)
 

sky_fly20

Match Penalty
Joined
Nov 20, 2011
I want virtue and moir to get choreo elsewhere
I think it would be amazing if Ingo Steur did some choreo for them. He's really innovative and they have the artistic talent to handle his ideas.

I think it should be D/W that will leave S/Z. It appears their training capacity seems to be full house already
and taking some of the teams not that equally. Its never good to have all top teams trained under same coach. your development will be limited

Ingo is good, will be interesting how he can experiment with ice dance
 

pangtongfan

Match Penalty
Joined
Jun 16, 2010
** What happened to Shibs? What should they do next?

Their bronze last year was a mistake and shouldnt have happened in the first place. It was a combination of a huge bit of luck with the French disaester and some questionable scoring. If Weaver & Poje were possibly robbed this year they were robbed blind last year. They were never going to repeat as a podium team this year, plain and simple. They still could have a decent future, but they really need to improve their artistry. Technically they are very strong, but that alone isnt enough.

** Is C/L a world medalist in the making?

I doubt it. They seem to be late bloomers but they are older than almost all the top teams. A European medal would be a more feasible goal for them.

** W/P — Will they catchup to V/M-D/W? Mathman seems to think so.

I think they have a shot of catching D/W atleast. Probably not V/M unless her injury problems flare up again although they almost beat them in the SD at Canadians and seem to have more short term improvement left than almost everyone else so who knows. They need to get past P/B first though and get a World medal.

** P/B — Retire now with a bronze or keep going?

They should keep going. The Olympics and a potential medal are too close to not.

** B/S and I/K — who will be Russia No. 1 by 2014. Or will it be juniors S/Z?

I/K for sure. B/S are going nowhere fast. If they couldnt medal at Worlds in Russia last year with how the event played out they never will. The Russian fed. was probably just itching for an excuse to make I/K their #1 and this years Worlds results will suffice. I/K are their medal hopes for 2014, not B/S.

** H/D — A lock of USA No. 3 or even a threat for No. 2? Can Chock/Bates, Samulseon/Gilles, and others catch up?

I dont see any major changes in the U.S dance pecking order until after Sochi.
 

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 27, 2009
^^^^
yes indeed :)
I'd love to give it a try

* the Shibs ? they need more passion and stop skating like you are still juniors

I don't think they skate like juniors. I feel their technical ability has been above par. No junior team, except maybe S/Z, skate as well as the Shibs do technically. Their edges are deep, they have soft knees and they are fast.

I think the problem is more with packaging. Maia and Alex are actually quite mature for their age (you can see that when they conduct themselves in interviews and the such), but that didn't really show in their programs this year. I don't think they should do super serious programs, that's not who they are. I think they need to do a program that is probably more mature, but still maintains that youthful energy and humor that people like about them.

I think this year was just a slight setback, which is crazy to say because any other skater in the U.S. would love to have their year — GP Gold, GP Silver, GPF berth, second silver Nationals medal and a top 10 finish at Worlds. But the fact is their success came quickly, so anything in comparison to last season was going to look bad.
 

sky_fly20

Match Penalty
Joined
Nov 20, 2011
^

right packaging I agree
also they being siblings could be holding them back giving more romantic passion and fire in their performance
 

Macassar88

Medalist
Joined
Dec 21, 2011
As for what happened to the shibs he fell out of the first set and missed the second set then she didn't do the third set and you need two sets which they didn't have. Thus they got a zero for the element. They had really low footwork scores( both level two)
CL are supposedly moving to marina and igor. Well see how it works for them
Pechalat and Bourzat have said that they're continuing til Sochi iirc
Russian number one: even without the fall bs wouldn't have beaten ik. If they stay with Kustarova they have no chance. Hopefully Sinitsina and Zighanshin leave Kustarova as well. She doesn't package her skaters well and blames politics instead of making changes to get levels up.
Doris, WHRE ARE YOU? I need some objective observation in midst of all this hostile discussion!

Can we please move beyond this petty comments, please?! If you want to flame each other, do it by private message.

Also can we talk about some other storylines?

** What happened to Shibs? What should they do next?
** Is C/L a world medalist in the making?
** W/P — Will they catchup to V/M-D/W? Mathman seems to think so.
** P/B — Retire now with a bronze or keep going?
** B/S and I/K — who will be Russia No. 1 by 2014. Or will it be juniors S/Z?
** H/D — A lock of USA No. 3 or even a threat for No. 2? Can Chock/Bates, Samulseon/Gilles, and others catch up?

** Should we start giving 4-5 spots to each country now...? The top 10 was basically Russia (5,6,9), USA(2,8,10) and Canada (1 and 4) (with P/B and C/L playing spoiler).
 

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 27, 2009
^

right packaging I agree
also they being siblings could be holding them back giving more romantic passion and fire in their performance

Why does an ice dance team need to be romantic to have passion? Granted, I believe coming up with programs are more challenging because they are siblings, but I certainly think they are capable of finding programs that work for them.

And they have — I think last season's program was great, as the programs they did as juniors (Cinema Paradiso, Memoirs of a Geisha...)
 

sky_fly20

Match Penalty
Joined
Nov 20, 2011
Hopefully Sinitsina and Zighanshin leave Kustarova as well. She doesn't package her skaters well and blames politics instead of making changes to get levels up.

I am sometimes noticing Sinitsina maybe is getting some ugly Brobrova posture :cry: while B/S are done and will be going downhill starting from here
its not too late for S/Z, its still very early and will get their senior debut, perfect time to leave Kustarova :)
Kustarova is good with juniors but fails to transition them into seniors, very prehistoric and her training styles are limited
 

Macassar88

Medalist
Joined
Dec 21, 2011
As for the shibs they have some limitations as they are brother and sister. That said they can still be mature.
Sinitsina and Zighanshin have a lot of promise but I don't see them challenging for more than a bronze until after Sochi. But I really like their unison and pair movements. Another promising team is stepanova and bukin
^^^^
yes indeed :)
I'd love to give it a try

* the Shibs ? they need more passion and stop skating like you are still juniors
* C/L - They will be the next P/B
*P/B - This was their last chance to medal at worlds and they did, good for them
they can compete until 2014 but isn't a guarantee anything they will stay successful .imo, they should retire after their 2012 Worlds medal
*W/P - They will podium very soon in world/grand prix final competitions, I can see them pulling an upset from D/W
*B/S - I/K - S/Z - B/S are done, it was just a matter of time before I/K surpass them but the real star will be S/Z.
S/Z the only ones I could think of newbies to challenge V/M and D/W by 2014
 

Macassar88

Medalist
Joined
Dec 21, 2011
The stuff Ingo is doing with s and s is amazing and he'd have even more room in dance.
I think it should be D/W that will leave S/Z. It appears their training capacity seems to be full house already
and taking some of the teams not that equally. Its never good to have all top teams trained under same coach. your development will be limited

Ingo is good, will be interesting how he can experiment with ice dance
 

Macassar88

Medalist
Joined
Dec 21, 2011
I am sometimes noticing Sinitsina maybe is getting some ugly Brobrova posture :cry: while B/S are done and will be going downhill starting from here
its not too late for S/Z, its still very early and will get their senior debut, perfect time to leave Kustarova :)
Kustarova is good with juniors but fails to transition them into seniors, very prehistoric and her training styles are limited
I agree with all of this
Also I don't like that they are copying dw's music. They are their own team and need their own style. If they do DF next year I will flip a ****.
 

auser

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 5, 2009
I don't think they skate like juniors. I feel their technical ability has been above par. No junior team, except maybe S/Z, skate as well as the Shibs do technically. Their edges are deep, they have soft knees and they are fast.

I think the problem is more with packaging. Maia and Alex are actually quite mature for their age (you can see that when they conduct themselves in interviews and the such), but that didn't really show in their programs this year. I don't think they should do super serious programs, that's not who they are. I think they need to do a program that is probably more mature, but still maintains that youthful energy and humor that people like about them.

I think this year was just a slight setback, which is crazy to say because any other skater in the U.S. would love to have their year — GP Gold, GP Silver, GPF berth, second silver Nationals medal and a top 10 finish at Worlds. But the fact is their success came quickly, so anything in comparison to last season was going to look bad.
Thank you for this. They have lovely technique, this is only their second year as senior ice dancers, they should be given a fair chance to evolve their talent, style and vision. I am sure they were as surprised as anyone at their rapid success last year. As an ice dance fan and an American I am proud of them.
 

Tonichelle

Idita-Rock-n-Roll
Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 27, 2003
^

right packaging I agree
also they being siblings could be holding them back giving more romantic passion and fire in their performance

is romance the only emotion that is acceptable for couples? I don't think so.
 

lcd

Match Penalty
Joined
Mar 11, 2007
Ditto from me. :thumbsup:

They have very pure technique, are exceptionally musical, and show a unique and infectious chemistry that does not require fawning or choreographed pawing of each other. :rolleye:

They have accomplished things at ages which have never been done before and this has certainly been the "season of backlash" for having "broken" long-standing traditional rules such as waiting-your-turn. As a fan of all disciplines of the sport for over 40 years, and a fan of many sports that I follow closely, they stand out for having a striking blend of athleticism, artistry, humility, class, and intelligence which they display both on and off the ice. I too am so very proud of them. Someone in another thread compared their career trajectory to one like Michele Kwan's, where there was tremendous early success, but certainly some bumps along the way, all of which she handled with dignity, and showed growth which was real, not contrived, every step of the way. I very much agree and will be enjoying following these two beautiful young people for hopefully many years to come.

Mrs. P., your admonitions to get this anonymous peanut gallery to behave and keep it "classy" is so logically consistent with your thoughtful comments in general, and your support of Maia and Alex in particular.
 
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ImaginaryPogue

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 3, 2009
1. D/W received two tens from the same judge for the CoR SD, which involved a noticeable slip from Charlie that threw off the timing for a considerable portion of the dance. That was also the event where D/W scored the highest PCS ever in the FD.

2. I take comfort in the fact that had D/W won and V/M lost, we'd be hearing the same conspiracies with different twists: that Shpilband was now politicking the American team hard (his nationality, after all), that SC was spending it's political clout elsewhere (Chan), that the 4CC victory was merely a make-up for the GPF loss, etc

3. That stated, there was a LOT going on here that I think can be explained by going off the ice for a minute. NOT included is Scott's remarks at the GPF - I'm surprised at how many people think that that TRULY affected the results.

4. Recalling the following things

a) This was the season that the next-in-line teams needed to close the gap to have a shot at Sochi gold (which, btw, I think is far more realistic now than I thought two weeks ago)
b) That there was a strong backlash against the scoring at the GPF (not merely the computer error, but the GOE/levels being handed out like candy)
c) That I believe the ISU thinks that one way to get interest in the sport is to constantly have high scores as we get closer to Sochi (which means that low scores need to happen somewhere)
d) That prominent members of the figure skating community - like Zhulin - have complained about the sky high PCS we're seeing the Canton crew get.
e) That the S/Z sweep in Moscow was likely to trigger a backlash.
f) That the Canton quartet are so close to the scoring ceiling that it's statistically quite difficult for them to increase their score

I think all those things played a role in D/W's marks (and V/M's ,but no one seems to mind that they didn't score a season's best). Next season will be fascinating.
 

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 27, 2009
Ditto from me. :thumbsup:

They have very pure technique, are exceptionally musical, and show a unique and infectious chemistry that does not require fawning or choreographed pawing of each other. :rolleye:

They have accomplished things at ages which have never been done before and this has certainly been the "season of backlash" for having "broken" long-standing traditional rules such as waiting-your-turn. As a fan of all disciplines of the sport for over 40 years, and a fan of many sports that I follow closely, they stand out for having a striking blend of athleticism, artistry, humility, class, and intelligence which they display both on and off the ice. I too am so very proud of them. Someone in another thread compared their career trajectory to one like Michele Kwan's, where there was tremendous early success, but certainly some bumps along the way, all of which she handled with dignity, and showed growth which was real, not contrived, every step of the way. I very much agree and will be enjoying following these two beautiful young people for hopefully many years to come.

Mrs. P., your admonitions to get this anonymous peanut gallery to behave and keep it "classy" is so logically consistent with your thoughtful comments in general, and your support of Maia and Alex in particular.

Oh lcd, you're making me blush :eek::

No matter how they do, I will be always be fan of the Shibutanis because of who they are on AND off the ice. They are hard workers (even Johnny Weir noted that when they were young, they would skate extra sessions at the rink) and they never settle for anything less than perfection. I think their relatively disastrous outing here at Worlds was case of trying too hard (in fact, you can see that before they did that twizzle sequence, Alex was ready to work it and I think got distracted). I think they know that they are seen as too youthful or not mature and they SO badly wanted to change that image.

I find it weird they are perceived by many here as "juniors" because outside the ice they are really are classy and mature, while retaining their youthful enthusiasm. It just doesn't show in their programs sometimes.

They will be fine. They will come home, give a big thank you to their fans on their FB page, post all their fun photos from France and then get working on next season. :) I think they will rock the Yankee Polka next year. :)

As for the peanut gallery, I feel that you can fairly assess how a skater did without resort to name-caling, baseless opinions and the like. I think D/W and V/M got too much of that today.
 

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 27, 2009
1. D/W received two tens from the same judge for the CoR SD, which involved a noticeable slip from Charlie that threw off the timing for a considerable portion of the dance. That was also the event where D/W scored the highest PCS ever in the FD.

2. I take comfort in the fact that had D/W won and V/M lost, we'd be hearing the same conspiracies with different twists: that Shpilband was now politicking the American team hard (his nationality, after all), that SC was spending it's political clout elsewhere (Chan), that the 4CC victory was merely a make-up for the GPF loss, etc

3. That stated, there was a LOT going on here that I think can be explained by going off the ice for a minute. NOT included is Scott's remarks at the GPF - I'm surprised at how many people think that that TRULY affected the results.

4. Recalling the following things

a) This was the season that the next-in-line teams needed to close the gap to have a shot at Sochi gold (which, btw, I think is far more realistic now than I thought two weeks ago)
b) That there was a strong backlash against the scoring at the GPF (not merely the computer error, but the GOE/levels being handed out like candy)
c) That I believe the ISU thinks that one way to get interest in the sport is to constantly have high scores as we get closer to Sochi (which means that low scores need to happen somewhere)
d) That prominent members of the figure skating community - like Zhulin - have complained about the sky high PCS we're seeing the Canton crew get.
e) That the S/Z sweep in Moscow was likely to trigger a backlash.
f) That the Canton quartet are so close to the scoring ceiling that it's statistically quite difficult for them to increase their score

I think all those things played a role in D/W's marks (and V/M's ,but no one seems to mind that they didn't score a season's best). Next season will be fascinating.

Interesting thoughts! Finally something I can chew on. (NorthernDancers and SF, thanks for your thoughts as well). I agree that the next in-line teams (namely P/B and W/P) are close then they ever have been to the top two. I think I/K, C/L, the Shibs and B/S will fight for that No. 5 spot (i.e. the final group spot) next season. I think H/D will be the USA No. 3 team to beat and they will easily maintain their top 10 World status, along with R/T from Russia (though they might be booted out for the up-and-coming juniors.)

For all the outcry about Russia losing relevance, they actually did quite well here — Russian No. 1 and No. 2 did not beat USA No.1 but they both beat USA No. 2 (albeit they had help with a bad skate from the Shibs). Russia No. 3 beat USA No. 3, though not by much. Interesting that Canada No. 3 was pretty much a non-factor in this competition, but that didn't really matter because Canada No. 1 beat everyone and Canada No. 2 beat everyone from Russia and USA No. 2 and 3. Would be interested to see how P/I or G/P would fare if they got the No. 3 spot next year.

Just a question: How do you know the judge that gave 2 10s at Worlds was the COR judge? Aren't the scores randomly generated?
 
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ImaginaryPogue

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 3, 2009
I must have been unclear. D/W received two tens from one judge at the CoR SD. Someone asked if D/W recieved a ten for SS when they fell. They didn't (nor did V/M). But D/W did receive the aforementioned tens (JHere). I'm gonna argue that that started a bit of a backlash - notice how D/W's PCS steadily decreased from then. The GPF scoring was so high that doris immediately postulated that the ISU would hand down some talking-tos, and Tanith Belbin mentioned that we shouldn't expect to see it that high again (indeed, that people are complaining that D/W didn't match that asserts they didn't).
 
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