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Thread: Ice Dance - Free Dance

  1. #436
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    Quote Originally Posted by leafygreens View Post
    Whatever their twizzle score was, it should be higher, or V/M's lower. Plus, the twizzles are not the only reason D/W are better than V/M, it's their speed throughout the ENTIRE program, which makes the whole program harder. Their choreography was also miles above V/M. I don't know why the argument is, no matter what the music, that V/M skate to "risky" music and D/W skate to "safe" music and therefore V/M's programs are always, always more difficult. That's complete BS. As if D/W's Indian dance, which had never been done before, was "safe." V/M's program this year was so boring, not exciting and did not grab me as a viewer. I don't care what kind of "romantic connection" they have. If you have ever skated before, you know that doing a move at high speed is a lot harder than doing it slowly. So why the slow, romantic thing always makes people think V/M are more difficult, I have no idea.
    You know, just because you keep saying it over and over again doesn't make it true. These are your opinions, not facts. Others feel differently. And they are just as entitled to their opinions. And, gasp, some of us believe V/M won fair and square. The notion that V/M are slow is simply hyperbolic nonsense.

    As for the music choices....I don't think either team's music was particularly "risky." Both are pretty standard ice dance/figure skating fare. Personally, I think D/W's choreography was the best FD program they've ever had. Previously, I've found their free dances to be rather forgettable. I've preferred other V/M programs to Funny Face, which isn't to say that Funny Face is a bad program, I just liked Mahler and Valse Triste, in particular, better. Personally, again, I'm torn between which team's FD I liked better. I think D/W's was a choreographic masterpiece that really masked their weaknesses brilliantly and played up their strengths. But I loved the personality that V/M brought to Funny Face, and, as always, their pure skating and technique was gorgeous and really on display. So for it to come down to, largely, a technical level seems appropriate. I gather from other posters here and elsewhere that D/W have been getting a level 3 on that footwork sequence virtually all season long, so this can't have even been a huge surprise for them — but if I'm wrong about that I stand corrected in advance.

    As for the overall gold medal, even had the FD's ended up tied, or D/W slightly ahead, I think V/M should have rightly taken it on the strength of the SD. V/M really were that much better than D/W in that segment this competition.

  2. #437
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    Phil Hersh's take on the ice dance competition:

    http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports...2687379.column


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    Hersh doesn`t know or understand that sport he should not be commentating on it period.

  4. #439
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    Quote Originally Posted by romanoff81 View Post
    keep whining leafy you are not a judge, D&W deserved the placement they got, yes they are athlectic and fast but their skating is sloppy, they have poor lines and zero connection on the ice that is why they lost to a better team.
    Even as a huge V&M fan, I find your charactization of Meryl & Charlie as "sloppy" with "poor lines and zero connection" to be ridiculous. V&M are more precise with their feet but that hardly makes D&W sloppy. And the area in which D&W have improved most this season is in their lines, their matching lines and their connection, all of which is showcased brilliantly in the Fledermaus program.

    In spite of Leafgreens assertion that D&W are faster than V&M, yes they are a wee bit faster, but not so much that it makes much difference in the scoring. Where V&M have a huge edge over D&W is in their unison. V&M move in perfect unison with excellent matching lines, even when they aren't looking at one another. D&W have excellent unison and matching lines, but it's not the perfect match that V&M have.

    I thought that yesterday, D&W had the better performance but I do think that Funny Face is the more difficult program and more detailed. I'm glad I wasn't a judge because it was hard to pick between the two. I'd give it to V&M on the basis of their superior SD but what a treat the last two flights of dance were to watch.

    And while I agree that W&P absolutely beat P&B in the SD, in the FD the French skated the heck out of that program of theirs (which is still a piece of crap IMO). It was the best I've ever seen them skate and their win was deserved.

  5. #440
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonlady View Post
    Even as a huge V&M fan, I find your charactization of Meryl & Charlie as "sloppy" with "poor lines and zero connection" to be ridiculous. V&M are more precise with their feet but that hardly makes D&W sloppy. And the area in which D&W have improved most this season is in their lines, their matching lines and their connection, all of which is showcased brilliantly in the Fledermaus program.

    In spite of Leafgreens assertion that D&W are faster than V&M, yes they are a wee bit faster, but not so much that it makes much difference in the scoring. Where V&M have a huge edge over D&W is in their unison. V&M move in perfect unison with excellent matching lines, even when they aren't looking at one another. D&W have excellent unison and matching lines, but it's not the perfect match that V&M have.

    I thought that yesterday, D&W had the better performance but I do think that Funny Face is the more difficult program and more detailed. I'm glad I wasn't a judge because it was hard to pick between the two. I'd give it to V&M on the basis of their superior SD but what a treat the last two flights of dance were to watch.

    And while I agree that W&P absolutely beat P&B in the SD, in the FD the French skated the heck out of that program of theirs (which is still a piece of crap IMO). It was the best I've ever seen them skate and their win was deserved.
    Nice post.

    I don't think I could pick either, to be honest. But I agree that V/M did win in the SD. I question more the margin of the FD, personally. I've pretty much poured over the protocols, so at this point, it's rewatching time.

  6. #441
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    Quote Originally Posted by romanoff81 View Post
    Hersh doesn`t know or understand that sport he should not be commentating on it period.
    Just because Hersh has an an opinion different than yours doesn't mean he should be banned from covering the sport. For the many times I've disagreed with Hersh over the years, he's only one of a handful of reporters in the U.S. who still covers figure skating to detail (along with USA Today's Christine Brennen and AP's Nancy Armour). Most reporters don't commit much more than a brief inside the sports pages.

    And quite frankly, if we can voice our opinions in a public forum, why can't Hersh?

    Hersh can be off his rocker at times, but I don't agree with your assessment that Hersh doesn't understand or know the sport. He has covered it for many years. He also has provided some informative articles as well — he did a great job on his profiles on Gracie Gold and Jason Brown. (Though I find the double standard he has with Alissa Czisny quite troubling.)

  7. #442
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    Hersh often leaves me but I have to wonder if he would be getting this kind of criticism if he were praising V/M's win right now?

  8. #443
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    Quote Originally Posted by romanoff81 View Post
    hersh doesn`t know or understand that sport he should not be commentating on it period.
    amen!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs. P View Post
    Hersh can be off his rocker at times, but I don't agree with your assessment that Hersh doesn't understand or know the sport. He has covered it for many years. He also has provided some informative articles as well — he did a great job on his profiles on Gracie Gold and Jason Brown. (Though I find the double standard he has with Alissa Czisny quite troubling.)
    Hersch has said many times that he knows nothing about ice-dance and doesn’t even consider it to be a sport. Hence the calls for him to stop commenting on something he knows nothing about.

    I think Hersch is an idiot. Not as big an idiot as Rosie DiManno of The Toronto Star whose ignorance in regards to FS knows no bounds, but rather one who has his favourite skaters and who bases his comments on what those favourites are currently doing. Earlier this week he suggested it was the USFSA’s fault that Czisny skated poorly in the SP.

    For those who say that at least he writes about the sport, I would say that bad reporting of figure skating is, in many ways, worse than no reporting at all. (See articles written by Rosie DiManno.)

  10. #445
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonlady View Post
    For those who say that at least he writes about the sport, I would say that bad reporting of figure skating is, in many ways, worse than no reporting at all. (See articles written by Rosie DiManno.)
    I agree wholeheartedly. It makes this sport look moronic and childish to the general public.

  11. #446
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonlady View Post
    Hersch has said many times that he knows nothing about ice-dance and doesn’t even consider it to be a sport. Hence the calls for him to stop commenting on something he knows nothing about.

    I think Hersch is an idiot. Not as big an idiot as Rosie DiManno of The Toronto Star whose ignorance in regards to FS knows no bounds, but rather one who has his favourite skaters and who bases his comments on what those favourites are currently doing. Earlier this week he suggested it was the USFSA’s fault that Czisny skated poorly in the SP.

    For those who say that at least he writes about the sport, I would say that bad reporting of figure skating is, in many ways, worse than no reporting at all. (See articles written by Rosie DiManno.)
    Huh, didn't know about the ice dancing comment. Do you have a link where he says that?

    As I said, I don't agree with everything he says (in fact, I very much disagree with his whole USFSA thing with Czisny), but he's done plenty of reporting that is less opinion-based and strictly reporting. And Hersh is good at getting scoops on the sport at times too.

    I can't believe I'm defending Hersh. But I guess I'm of the stance that if he wants to have his opinions let him and let the readers decide rather than censor him.

  12. #447
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    Hersh did write a lot about how ice dance is not a real sport and shouldn't be in the Olympics and was only coming around because of COP made it less corrupt and now real talent could win. But now that it was not Davis and White and instead VM he doesn't like it again. He had no idea what was making the Russians successful under 6.0 - he just said it was corruption - and has no idea what was making DW successful or VM and now he can't tell anyone why DW went from being 1 to 2 and VM went back from 2 -1. Or he was just mad that WP didn't win bronze over PB. LOL yeah sure. He knows nothing - he is totally ignorant on ID and is now making dumb remarks again. He probably doesn't even know a twizzle.

  13. #448
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    Quote Originally Posted by icefan1005 View Post
    Meryl & Charlie also weren't at their best, and they lost because of their diagonal step sequence. They weren't hitting their deep edges. It's also not about crowd reaction. The Russian crowd last year really loved V/M's FD, but V/M still lost because they weren't clean.
    ugh, taking my post out of context. did you read everything else i said on this forum? the crowd reaction should never determine who comes first overall. but it does tell us something about the performance quality of the routine. and the people in the audience weren't the only ones to think that meryl and charlie performed their routine better. Despite all this (and tessa and scott admitting it wasn't their best skate) meryl and charlie received same or lower markes in three PCS categories - performance, choreography and interpretation - compared to tessa and scott. and yes you could argue that they lost "because of their diagonal step sequence" - though the tech call was arbitrary and sketch but hey we get it. COP isn't perfect - but you just cannot argue that tessa and scott were on par with meryl and charlie when it came to performance aspects of their skating.

  14. #449
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs. P View Post
    And quite frankly, if we can voice our opinions in a public forum, why can't Hersh?
    The difference is that Hersh is paid to report about ice dancing and we are not. Do you get paid to do nothing at all, the way Hersh did with his FD article? Do you also get paid when you decide that you don't want to learn about some part of your job because it doesn't make sense to you? If you do, I want your job, just like I want Hersh's job.

    Hersh's attitude is particularly disgusting in this time of economic difficulty for the US and the World. So many hard workers are being laid off, and yet this guy is pulling a salary for doing nothing at all. He ought to be ashamed of himself, but of course, he thinks he's the greatest thing there is. Appalling.
    Last edited by all that; 03-30-2012 at 03:11 PM.

  15. #450
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    Quote Originally Posted by all that View Post
    The difference is that Hersh is paid to report about ice dancing and we are not. Do you get paid to do nothing at all, the way Hersh did with his FD article? Do you also get paid when you decide that you don't want to learn about some part of your job because it doesn't make sense to you? If you do, I want your job, just like I want Hersh's job.

    Hersh's attitude is particularly disgusting in this time of economic difficulty for the US and the World. So many hard workers are being laid off, and yet this guy is pulling a salary for doing nothing at all. He ought to be ashamed of himself, but of course, he thinks he's the greatest thing there is. Appalling.
    ad hominem much?

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