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Thread: Men SP

  1. #631
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    Quote Originally Posted by evangeline View Post
    The burden of proof rests with the accusers.....none of whom thus far have provided any evidence to substantiate their claims.
    I didn't see anyone supplied any photo proof at 4CC men's SP thread when a multi-paged cries on Chan's "fall" broke out. The photo came in later. And I don't remember anyone called Takahashi fans "the accusers".

    If I could find photo later, of course I will bring it here. But I haven't found it yet. I have supplied video here. Also, the slow motion of a video would be better than a photo, don't you think?

    My position has never changed:

    Chan's pop at 4CC SP should have been a fall. Takahashi's pop this time should have been a fall. too. If Takahashi's wasn't considered as a fall, then they are even. The judges didn't particularly love Chan.

    Does this hurt any of you?!
    Last edited by Bluebonnet; 03-30-2012 at 12:03 PM.

  2. #632
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    Dai, was by far my favorite. That step sequence at the end had me getting up off my sofa and start modern dancing alongside him.

    I get the sense that Dai goes for the kill, no matter what his competition has done or not done.

  3. #633
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    I don't have problem with Takahashi's error not considered a fall, since Patrick's got the same from the judges. I just wish people are fairer. I do hope to read articles about this judging written by the same writers who had bashed Patrick for his non-fall.

    Anyway, congratulations to Patrick, Brezina and Takahashi.

    Feel enormous sorrow for Kozuka, what's gone wrong with him this year?

  4. #634
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    Quote Originally Posted by fscric View Post
    I don't have problem with Takahashi's error not considered a fall, since Patrick's got the same from the judges. I just wish people are fairer. I do hope to read articles about this judging written by the same writers who had bashed Patrick for his non-fall.

    Anyway, congratulations to Patrick, Brezina and Takahashi.

    Feel enormous sorrow for Kozuka, what's gone wrong with him this year?
    I heard from another part of the GS forum that Kozuka had problems with his boots, causing him pain. I think he had to go back to an old pair.
    I'm not sure, does anyone have anymore info on his current condition?

  5. #635
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    Did anyone found Chantastic's SP video yet?

  6. #636
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    Quote Originally Posted by blainechan View Post
    Chan skated good, not great. Beatable. The other skaters couldn't capitalize it. It's not his fault, is it? It's more like some people were counting on him falling 3 times must be real disappointed.
    Who said that it is Chan's fault the way he is scored? He should have received a high score I thought, as per how the judges' have shown they view him, but again his score is too high for his performance, IMO. I think Dai, Brezina, Joubert, and Amodio were also gifted. Even Jeremy and Adam were scored generously under the circumstances, but at least they were given some credit for their good qualities, and so it shows the judges at least give them some rep. Hopefully, they will give themselves some rep and skate the way they can in the fp.

    It is very interesting that you seem to think Chan is beatable. I see no evidence of that in the real world -- or maybe we exist in an alternate reality and its the real world where judges don't have Ch... Ch... Chan Fever. But I'm not betting on that either.

    When you say "other skaters couldn't capitalize it" what exactly do you mean? Chan and Dai both made mistakes but recovered admirably. Chan as usual had rep points before he started. The only difference at this event is that the judges increased scores somewhat for the rest of the field to keep somewhat apace with what Chan generally receives. I agree that Dai and others need to "capitalize" better when Chan falters oh so slightly, but the problem really is that a lot is being demanded of the men these days -- too much, IMHO. Quad pressure, Chanflation pressure (which affects Chan too, btw), footwork pressure, CoP pressure on the brain while skating, trying to pace themselves re what the quad training takes out of them w/o losing the execution of their triples, oh and maintaining proper technique on the difficult 3-axel, getting in the point-grabbing transitions and ultra extra spin revolutions; forget about displaying icing on the cake artistry, musical interpretation, and polish -- those items can go by the wayside somewhat if you can make up the points in other areas. Whewww! And mostly b/c of such a deep men's field (which also adds to the pressure), most of the men have only a future filled with injuries and operations w/o too many medals of any color to look back on with pride and nostalgia.

    BTW, Skater Boy and others, it seems to me your uber for Patrick makes you fail to realize that criticism and making fun of the judges' Chanflation marks does not equate to hate for Patrick himself. I do hate how the sport is on life support because of how poorly it is being run. Forget skaters falling off of a cliff, the sport fell off one long ago when CoP was created for the wrong reasons and forced into usage prematurely w/ anonymous judges.

    No, the world has not come to an end, even tho' we may be living in an alternate reality. Yes, figure skating as we knew it has come to an end, and we shall see what the future holds for this never say die sport.

  7. #637
    Custom Title Snoopy15's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by herios View Post
    Did anyone found Chantastic's SP video yet?
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kFw6..._rTA6JwgOJQ%3D

    The user also has the rest of the event.

  8. #638
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebonnet View Post
    I didn't see anyone supplied any photo proof at 4CC men's SP thread when a multi-paged cries on Chan's "fall" broke out. The photo came in later. And I don't remember anyone called Takahashi fans "the accusers".

    If I could find photo later, of course I will bring it here. But I haven't found it yet. I have supplied video here. Also, the slow motion of a video would be better than a photo, don't you think?

    My position has never changed:

    Chan's pop at 4CC SP should have been a fall. Takahashi's pop this time should have been a fall. too. If Takahashi's didn't consider as a fall, then they are even. The judges didn't particularly love Chan.

    Does this hurt any of you?!
    Bluebonnet, the phrase "the burden of proof rests/lies/etc with the accusers" is a common expression. Semantically, the word "accusers" makes sense within this context, though I do agree it does have a rather unpleasant connotation. I apologize if you were offended by the term.

    And no, it doesn't hurt me. Not at all. I'm more hurt by the rants of other posters, who constantly insinuate that anyone who dares to question a certain skater's scores is automatically a hater and completely beyond all rational thought.

    And for the record, I thought Takahashi would have been given a fall deduction too.

  9. #639
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    Quote Originally Posted by Art&Sport View Post
    It is very interesting that you seem to think Chan is beatable. I see no evidence of that in the real world -- or maybe we exist in an alternate reality and its the real world where judges don't have Ch... Ch... Chan Fever. But I'm not betting on that either.
    Chan skated good, not great. Yes, that SP was beatable. You don't think it's beatable because you think it's pre-determined, judging bias blah blah blah which was not true.

    As for your "chanflation" blah blah blah shows that the judges were not bias, maybe you were. My suggestion, if you hate it so much, stop watching it and the world will not come to an end.

  10. #640
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    Quote Originally Posted by Art&Sport View Post
    Who said that it is Chan's fault the way he is scored? He should have received a high score I thought, as per how the judges' have shown they view him, but again his score is too high for his performance, IMO. I think Dai, Brezina, Joubert, and Amodio were also gifted. Even Jeremy and Adam were scored generously under the circumstances, but at least they were given some credit for their good qualities, and so it shows the judges at least give them some rep. Hopefully, they will give themselves some rep and skate the way they can in the fp.

    It is very interesting that you seem to think Chan is beatable. I see no evidence of that in the real world -- or maybe we exist in an alternate reality and its the real world where judges don't have Ch... Ch... Chan Fever. But I'm not betting on that either.

    When you say "other skaters couldn't capitalize it" what exactly do you mean? Chan and Dai both made mistakes but recovered admirably. Chan as usual had rep points before he started. The only difference at this event is that the judges increased scores somewhat for the rest of the field to keep somewhat apace with what Chan generally receives. I agree that Dai and others need to "capitalize" better when Chan falters oh so slightly, but the problem really is that a lot is being demanded of the men these days -- too much, IMHO. Quad pressure, Chanflation pressure (which affects Chan too, btw), footwork pressure, CoP pressure on the brain while skating, trying to pace themselves re what the quad training takes out of them w/o losing the execution of their triples, oh and maintaining proper technique on the difficult 3-axel, getting in the point-grabbing transitions and ultra extra spin revolutions; forget about displaying icing on the cake artistry, musical interpretation, and polish -- those items can go by the wayside somewhat if you can make up the points in other areas. Whewww! And mostly b/c of such a deep men's field (which also adds to the pressure), most of the men have only a future filled with injuries and operations w/o too many medals of any color to look back on with pride and nostalgia.

    BTW, Skater Boy and others, it seems to me your uber for Patrick makes you fail to realize that criticism and making fun of the judges' Chanflation marks does not equate to hate for Patrick himself. I do hate how the sport is on life support because of how poorly it is being run. Forget skaters falling off of a cliff, the sport fell off one long ago when CoP was created for the wrong reasons and forced into usage prematurely w/ anonymous judges.

    No, the world has not come to an end, even tho' we may be living in an alternate reality. Yes, figure skating as we knew it has come to an end, and we shall see what the future holds for this never say die sport.
    Hey, I am trying not to make it personal. Art&Sport your position and bias or who you favour is pretty clear. I want to make it clear my fave is Dai I will admit this. I like his style and the way he reaches out to the audience unlike Patrick. I am just saying I can see why Chan gets his marks. I just think it is horrible that there is such an outrage about Patrick - in this case the marks were inflated for the a lot of skaters and probably nnot to pick on any country but really both US and both French men were marked fairly generously or got the benefit of the doubt - when the PCS could have been lower. Someone on the board said about classy responses but it is hard when some people really make it personal. Just as many "uber" fans for Chan are uber anti fans or hate crime types. Like I said freedom of speech is wonderful but misused and someone can get hurt. People this isn't solving cancer or wars. I think the poster Mrs. P or whoever wanted us to be classy has a point and I am guilty sometimes too. Everyone is entitled to their opinon but my goodness chill lax people and remember hmm judges, trained judges have constantly given Chan, Dai and even Abbott great marks because of appreication of the programs and skating skills not just the TES. I think if there is such outrage about Chan then there should also be for Katarina witt who couldn't do the difficult triple toes and spent more time posing that Susan Lucci has Emmy losses; outrage about posers like Joubert, Candelero, maybe outrage about Sale and Pelletier for "winning" gold when some can say their artistry was rated second and that is the tie breaker. We've seen outrage against V and M but what about the fact D and W just don't have the vibe for latin dances but they didn't get killed in the SD now did they? I know it is perspective but really I sense more hatred than deductive reasoning. I think the judges can see the crafted programs that make Chan, Abbot and Dai so hard sadly we are all for the most part armchair skaters. Sorry to call it as it is; most of us have not competed at world's or the olympics.

  11. #641
    Custom Title demarinis5's Avatar
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    Phil's take on the Men's SP

    http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports...7803077.column

    This thread has gotten a bit hostile, it was so cheery earlier.

    Pairs will be starting soon.

  12. #642
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    Skater Boy, calm down, perhaps your fav, Dai, will be on the podium. Certainly Patrick Chan will -- cuz if he doesn't the world may come to an end, and his ubers will jump off a cliff (post-Chan fail, pre-Rapture), or at least the alternate reality might end. Like I've heard it said before, "It's only figure skating." Lighten up.

    ETA: Just mentioning Patrick Chan's name in the same sentence with a criticism in the minds' of some equals hate/ hostility. But critiques of other skaters and of the sport are okay for me and others to mention, so long as Patrick is not mentioned, right?
    Last edited by Art&Sport; 03-30-2012 at 12:15 PM.

  13. #643
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    De-lurking here.

    What I thought was pretty amazing about Chan's SP was his recovery from being off balanced at the start of his one-foot sequence... I mean he basically lost his balance but still had the core strength and the training to complete the sequence on the one foot without an additional push from his other foot... all while maintaining/increasing his speed.

  14. #644
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snoopy15 View Post
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kFw6..._rTA6JwgOJQ%3D

    The user also has the rest of the event.
    Thanks, I need to watch again, as the report on yahoo says his footwork was "shaky"

  15. #645
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boeing787 View Post
    I can't bothered the least to convince Chan-haters. Why should I do the work?
    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebonnet View Post
    I didn't see anyone supplied any photo proof at 4CC men's SP thread when a multi-paged cries on Chan's "fall" broke out.
    I went back and read the 4cc men's SP thread. The "multi-paged cries" were started by SkateFiguring the "Chan-hater" who mentioned "He (Chan) fell on 4T", which ignited other posters' interest about the definition of fall and then about whether Chan's two-hand down was a fall. It was a natural progression of conversation, unlike some people here are mindfully looking for something to get even. When a poster said it (4CC SP) was a corrupt judging, Skatinginbc the "Chan-hater" responded, "It was not a clear-cut butt-on-ice fall, and so I can accept a certain degree of subjectivity."
    The more the label "Chan-haters" is used, the more Chan-haters there are. Let's all call each other "Chan-hater" so we can all live in peace.
    Last edited by skatinginbc; 03-30-2012 at 12:24 PM.

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