Easy for us to stand on the sidelines and throw stones. The skaters are the ones that have to go out there, sink or swim.
Unfortunately, sometimes they sink.
Easy for us to stand on the sidelines and throw stones. The skaters are the ones that have to go out there, sink or swim.
Unfortunately, sometimes they sink.
Nationals is a pre-judged event anyway.Originally Posted by R.D.
it's not fine if they take another's skater's hopes and dreams with them. whatever my situation, i doubt the people at my work will tolerate me screwing up in a way that affects their aspirations. wasn't it czisny's own words, 'for us skaters, skating is our jobs'--she used those words to insist that worlds be held, because other people were still going about their jobs, and she wanted to go about hers even in the aftermath of the disaster in japan, if i recall. it is a privilege to appear at worlds, and it has impact on other people's ability to appear at worlds. she cared enough to protect _her_ opportunity to skate at worlds last year.
if all of those things are just trivalities when czisny is the one that squanders them, then the usfsa needs to offer rachael flatt a FORMAL apology, a check for whatever amount they fined her, and an explanation posted on ice network for why her PCS for this year's nationals was about 10 below what she would typically score in previous years for the same performance.
Last edited by skfan; 04-01-2012 at 04:42 PM.
^ Actually, I agree with the second paragraph.
But I don't agree that making the world team is a privilege doled out whimsically by the USFSA. I think it is something that the skater earns in open competition.
Last edited by Mathman; 04-01-2012 at 04:42 PM.
Oh, but you're wrong. Making the world team is a privilege doled out whimsically by the USFSA.
Actually, I think they finally got it right this year. In previous years, they were overscoring her in that category relative to the international judges....and an explanation posted on ice network for why [Flatt's] PCS for this year's nationals was about 10 below what she would typically score in previous years for the same performance.
But they should be consistent and not pick and choose their battles like this...dock "penalty points" or whatever you will. As annoyed as I get at conspiracy theories on Nationals judging, there ARE things that they do sometimes that confuse the heck out of me...
Oh, holy mother of Abraham Lincoln this thread turned rancid quickly.
1. US Figure skating is in solid, if uninspired shape. The depth of ice dance is unparalleled. The excitement of pairs is palpable. And there's a crazy deep field of junior men that easily matches the depth we see from the Russian Baby Brigade. For all the talk of the senior ladies, Wagner and Gold are both gutsy competitors with sharp skills and even sharper goals. Yes, men's is a bit of a disappointment too, but it's certainly not a disgrace.
2. Czisny got her trip to Worlds at Nationals. It's not her fault she was held up, as some assert. If she was held up, that's the judges fault. THEY took the spot the rightfully belonged to Zhang/Zawadski/Lam/Flatt/Nagasu/random skater that didn't make it out of sectionals/regionals/her mother's womb. Czisny didn't take the spot. Now, if she was injured, precedence dictates that she disclose the injury and allow someone else the chance to compete. But, imo, once they gave her that spot, it's hers.
3. That she bombed is disappointing. I assure you, however, that the paroxysms of rage occuring behind anonymous members of internet message boards are nothing compared to what she is probably going through - questioning her commitment to the sport, recalibrating her goals, etc ad infinitum. I have no problems with people questioning her decisions, but the sheer breadth of entitlement... seriously?
4. I'm not a strict nationals-only guy by any means
absolutely. been the case for years.
people say the international judges would judge like this, so we should judge similar, but to me, judging at nationals should just be *fair.* maybe they ought to set a sterling example for the rest of the figure skating world, so the audience at worlds doesn't have to boo to get the point across that the fans are not as stupid as the powers that be believe them to be?
No, I said many times. Zawadski shouldn't replace Czisny. Zhang should. The alternate list is arbitrary. Otherwise, Rachael would have been on the list instead of Mirai BASED ON NATIONALS RESULTS. So they can easily put Zhang first. 1st alternate could be anybody, not necessarily Zawadzki
oh please. no one is entitled to anything, not fans looking for answers, not the usfsa, nobody... except czisny, who's entitled to her world spot, who's entitled to complete privacy, who shouldn't be questioned, who shouldn't have to face questions, or inquiry, because can't you see the poor baby's upset enough already? didn't keep that reporter from shoving a mic in rachael flatt's face last year right after she skated in pain. didn't keep anybody from ripping rachael flatt apart. but nobody can question the precious darling's right to retain the spot when she probably was unfit to skate. yeah, typical reaction from cizny fans.
^ I have a different take on this. I think we should be saying that Rachael was unfairly picked on last year. Not that Alissa should be picked on this year to keep it all even.
no, but she did admit to losing her feet... that's pretty serious. I mean, who goes off and leaves their feet at home?
Something like that doesn't happen very often. I suspect something evil is afoot.
i really don't think it is 'picking on' czisny to ask, what happened. to face the press, and to face the so called sponsoring organizations. NFL players do it, soccer players do it, swimmers do it. i mean, isn't the nature of her 'job' rather public? that's what happens in every sporting event, regardless of whether you've just scored a touchdown or have just muffed a hold a la tony romo.
again, i feel skating at worlds is a privilege. even if her spot at worlds was indisputably earned, i would still think it was a privilege. it's an event sold to ticket holders and TV broadcasters. even if there weren't wicked fans posting anonymously on GS, she would still have to answer questions like, what happened, what changed between GPF and nationals and now. questions and fans speculations on a message board are not things she needs to be shielded from--or are entitled to avoid--she chose to be an athlete on a stage, she knew being in public is what got her her superbowl commercial, all that jazz.
as for the 'let's not pick on anyone' message of your post, just as i want the judging to be fair, i also want the rules to be evenly applied. since they established the ' you must declare your condition' rule last year, they ought to follow it this year. and i am not going to stalk this thread forever so all cizny fans can feel free to chime in and declare that no one has the right to ask her anything, at any point, that she was never held up, that her spins are the best ever in the history of the sports, even if she has to drop the leg to grab the blade though lesser spinners like kostner and MK didn't subject us to the butt-sticking out for several revolutions.
i just think the czisny defense at times make unreasonable, indefensible statements such as, you can't question her, you can't be mean to her, you can't ask a question that might make her cry. she is an adult, not a child. she is not the only skater ever to have faced difficult situation, physically, emotionally. i don't like the diminishment of what other skaters have lost thanks to her and the USFSA--an opportunity to compete at worlds _this year_ and also next year. no it's not life and death, but it's a culmination of some people's dreams, no? if it's no big deal, why did czisny write that article last year, to preserve _her_ opportunity to skate at worlds?
honestly, even if an inquiry did occur, i doubt any change would happen. since it appears they're going to continue pre-judging and holding up skaters, let's hope they hold up the 'right' ones next year, since fair judging appears to be an impossible dream.
Oh please at your Flatt example and how it supposably is inconsistent with Czisny.
1. Czisny is being criticized to the hilt, just as much as Flatt was. Hello read all the threads here the last few days.
2. Flatt over the years up until this year was ALWAYS overscored at Nationals, especialy in 2008, 2010, and her PCS especialy were a joke. So her "typical scores" does not mean her right scores.
3. Putting Flatt on the World team last year was a major mistake, even if she werent injured. She was already clearly a skater on the downswing of her career at that point. Giving Czisny the benefit of doubt this year seemed to make sense given her international record in the last year or two.
4. Flatt's quality of skating (which was never great besides consistency) has regressed alot from her peak in 2008-2010, which is also reflected in her diminished PCS. She isnt even consistently doing the big jumps, # of triples, and triple-triples to compensate anymore either.
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