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Thread: The state of U.S. Figure Skating

  1. #196
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    Alissa had the bigger meltdown...not even close...Mirai actually landed quite a few triples in her 2010 worlds performances....and her LP performance had a huge 2a/3t, and she only had one fall.

  2. #197
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonlady View Post
    I don't remember this much venom being directed at Mirai Nagasu who blew the opportunity for your precious three spots in 2010 by finishing 11th in the LP after winning the SP at Worlds.
    I think Spun Silver is right in saying that people have come down hard on Mirai, calling her a headcase and other names, pretty constantly for the last couple of years. Same with Rachael Flatt, Caroline Zhang, Agnez Zawadski this year (last year she was the bee's knees), Kimmie Meissner after 2006; don't even mention Emily Hughes. They picked on Sasha because she was not Michelle. Poor Ashley. I hope she knows what's in store for her next year when she doesn't win her first Grand Prix event.

    I think the USA just cannot twist its mind around the concept that we are not automatically the best in ladies figure skating any more. Didn't we have three ladies on the podium, with Kristi, Nancy and Tonya? What happened? It must be somebody's fault. (Probably Michelle's.)

  3. #198
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    as much as being sad for alissa
    she did hype up the f/c so called snub-even though she never medal and skate well , jason was in on it

    she cost us a direct entry--she was able to skate for a direct entry-but she cost us one.

    1 i would make her only skate in one gp event next year and not skate america, alissa can prove she can skate later in the year like after nationals,
    2 she would have to skate in the prelimins until we had 2-3 direct entries--provided she stayed in long enough

    frankly that could apply to all u.s. skaters.
    if the u.s wants more money they are going to have to crackdown on their skaters.they (u.s. skaters)want more money but don't seem to undertand that placing, getting three counts when you skate but especially when you leave the competitive side of the sport where public opinion really comes into play.we do remember ups/downs.
    if the u.s. skaters cant get three placings how do they expect to get more money let alone when don't medal.
    i am tired of excuses did adam not skate well due to his lamenting over not credit for quad, did alissa chose not to skate well in long due to not getting f/c's.
    why did alissa change sped on every jumping pass in the long at worlds-from slow to fast to slow, to high and low-with that kinda of pacing noone could land jumps. a steady pacing is what she needed but she was all over the map in the long with her jumps. her pcs things was there but did she deliberately different pace her jumps so she wouldn't land -so another skater would have to go to prelims instead-see i show you if i don't get what i want you don't either (u.s.f.sa.)

    i as public-am getting tired of u.s. capable of getting 3 ladies-and skating half ***-not skating their best-but just skating in all disciplines.

    i am tired of thinking like this, why the u.s. skaters make me think like this when they don't get what they want, or way, placing in events they think should be placed higher, scored higher etc whe n they don't fight or skate for it. just skate and expect it to come.

  4. #199
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    I think Spun Silver is right in saying that people have come down hard on Mirai, calling her a headcase and other names, pretty constantly for the last couple of years. Same with Rachael Flatt, Caroline Zhang, Agnez Zawadski this year (last year she was the bee's knees), Kimmie Meissner after 2006; don't even mention Emily Hughes. They picked on Sasha because she was not Michelle. Poor Ashley. I hope she knows what's in store for her next year when she doesn't win her first Grand Prix event.

    I think the USA just cannot twist its mind around the concept that we are not automatically the best in ladies figure skating any more. Didn't we have three ladies on the podium, with Kristi, Nancy and Tonya? What happened? It must be somebody's fault. (Probably Michelle's.)

    i actually think ashley always had the steely resolve, if she now has technique to go with it...

    and no, i have no delusions that the usa is the best in ladies figure skating. we aren't the best, we haven't the medals. can't we at least have 3 spots--we are grasping at straws here.

    nonetheless, it still irritates me to hear czisny fans declaring in the wake of her 22 placement that the u.s. doesn't deserve 3. i can't help thinking they'd be singing a different tune if she had placed 8th. and if they can disregard, disrespect the rest of the U.S. ladies, why do they think their favorite is immune from criticism?

  5. #200
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    Um...do you think that no one is criticizing Alissa? Have you read the threads on this very forum?



    A bad performance by an athlete is not an embarrassment for the whole country. Yes, fans have a right to be disappointed. I am a fan. I am disappointed.



    The Detroit newspaper had a big picture in the sports section of Alissa falling, under the headline, World skating championship disaster for Czisny, U.S. skaters."

    It wasn't front page news because it was not the Olympics and because figure skating is not as popular now as it still was even then.

    But yeah, people picked on Sasha unmercifully. That was wrong and bad. I am not completely in the clear on that point. Come back, Sasha; all is forgiven.



    Personally, I don't think her reputation was scarred. She gave the all-time worst performance in skating history, but the jury is out about how she will rebound from such a set-back.

    In any case, you and I do not bear any scars. It is Alissa who is on the hot seat alone, not the fans, not the newspapers, not the United States of America. As Teddy Roosevelt famously said,



    And so on. (I think Roosevelt also said, "I like Plushenko. He skates like a Bull Moose.")



    OK, then it's Phil Hersh's and Dragonlady's fault. The point is, Alissa did not make excuses and accusations.
    OK--I agree with all of this ^^^

    I also really wish that people would stop equating the world of "amateur" figure skating with pro sports. If these skater athletes, at least in the US, were making the kind of money that pro football/baseball players, etc., then I might feel we all have a little more rationale for our complaints and criticism. I don't care about the Super Bowl commercial and yes, they have to view their training as their "job." But the financial support these athletes get from grassroots until they finally reach the top is pitiful. This long road is not a job, but volunteerism out of a passion, and they keep going through hard work, determination, and family support/generosity (or stupidity, depending on how you look at it). These athletes will also not be making much money following their amateur careers either, especially now. I'm actually amazed the US has the talent it does.

  6. #201
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    mathman you are right michelles fault for skating so well, fighting for it most of the time.
    no -not really but i wouldn't be surprised if alot of fans, skaters, and others in skating community thinks so.
    they gave lip service to michelle-alot and nailed her skating alot, but overlooked the faults of all the others.

  7. #202
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    Quote Originally Posted by fallingsk8er View Post
    Alissa had the bigger meltdown...not even close...Mirai actually landed quite a few triples in her 2010 worlds performances....and her LP performance had a huge 2a/3t, and she only had one fall.
    I think everyone agrees that Alissa's skating performance was abysmal beyond record. What I don't go along with is the segue to..."therefore Alissa is an evil person."

  8. #203
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    People were slamming Sasha after the 2006 Olympics? I was so relieved! I had been terrified that she'd crumble completely. When she picked herself up after the second stumble and kept skating, I was thrilled. And then she won a silver! I was jubilant. Maybe I'm just peculiar, or maybe I was still in shock because Michelle had to withdraw. I also had the fabulous consolation prize of Shizuka winning the gold, so maybe this made my brain lose calibration about Sasha.

    Two people I feel really sorry for are Jason and Yuka. Whether there's something in their training methods or just sheer bad luck, three of their skaters did badly at Worlds this year. It's a devastating occurrence for coaches at the best of times, and these are not the best of times. I guess this is the risk you take when you choose to coach head cases, but golly, their methods worked last year. I don't imagine anyone at that rink has gotten any sleep since, say, Friday.

  9. #204
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    Once again, this is not a "bad performance" or a "bad day," it is a nightmare performance of historic proportions, the nadir of US skating. Phil Hersh has certainly made that case to the readers of the Chicago Tribune.
    And for once, he's right. Perhaps luckily for Czisny, no one in the US even cares about skating any more to give her a really hard time over it, apart from Hersh, local papers and internet forum fans.

    It's honestly no use any more to bemoan the past, say Zhang should have gone, Czisny should have been yanked, etc. But what needs to happen is an extensive investigation into USFS' World Team selection procedures and the current trajectory we are on. Does it make sense any longer to simply go with the top 2 or top 3 at Nationals every time? Perhaps Nationals needs to be de-emphasized in importance a little so that our skaters peak at Worlds instead? Should we continue to send the "A-Team" to Four Continents (another opportunity to peak early)? Do we need to implement test skates/monitoring sessions for World team members? And, most importantly, should USFS gain the authority to pull anyone from a World Team that is deemed unfit? Should the entire USFS organization be re-structured so it is in better position to help its skaters?

    Questions like these are what we should be asking so that this never happens again.

  10. #205
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    Quote Originally Posted by conga View Post
    OK--I agree with all of this ^^^

    I also really wish that people would stop equating the world of "amateur" figure skating with pro sports. If these skater athletes, at least in the US, were making the kind of money that pro football/baseball players, etc., then I might feel we all have a little more rationale for our complaints and criticism. I don't care about the Super Bowl commercial and yes, they have to view their training as their "job." But the financial support these athletes get from grassroots until they finally reach the top is pitiful. This long road is not a job, but volunteerism out of a passion, and they keep going through hard work, determination, and family support/generosity (or stupidity, depending on how you look at it). These athletes will also not be making much money following their amateur careers either, especially now. I'm actually amazed the US has the talent it does.

    does this also not apply to the other non-czisny U.S. ladies? the ones who don't deserve a better shot to make it to worlds, because the U.S. doesn't deserve 3 spots in the minds of some czisny fans here?

    another reason she cannot be held responsible: she wasn't paid as much as a pro football player. please, somebody, make a list of all the reasons. i'd find it a more credible list if it starts with #1 'because she's pretty' and *looks* like she needs her gallant knights (equally anonymous here) to protect her.

  11. #206
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    Poor Caroline, never given the chance. Other girls are just passing her one by one.

  12. #207
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    I think everyone agrees that Alissa's skating performance was abysmal beyond record. What I don't go along with is the segue to..."therefore Alissa is an evil person."
    Well, maybe not "evil" in that sense, but I do think it's totally fair game to question her judgment, especially when there were healthy, fit and able skaters waiting in line behind her to go- and because of her low finish, not only do we have 2 spots for next year, but apparently the 2nd lady we send now has to do the qualifying round. Her outing here affects the entire program, not just her psyche.

  13. #208
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    I think everyone agrees that Alissa's skating performance was abysmal beyond record. What I don't go along with is the segue to..."therefore Alissa is an evil person."
    please find where i said that.

  14. #209
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    Quote Originally Posted by skfan View Post
    does this also not apply to the other non-czisny U.S. ladies? the ones who don't deserve a better shot to make it to worlds, because the U.S. doesn't deserve 3 spots in the minds of some czisny fans here?

    another reason she cannot be held responsible: she wasn't paid as much as a pro football player. please, somebody, make a list of all the reasons. i'd find it a more credible list if it starts with #1 'because she's pretty' and *looks* like she needs her gallant knights (equally anonymous here) to protect her.
    This comment was not meant to be specific to Alissa, but to all skaters who fail to meet the expectations of "fans" who provide correlations that are not equitable.

  15. #210
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    yes for me it would apply to all U. S. skaters and especially -nationals champs, world medalist.

    the u.s is getting lackadaisy in their skating at international events.
    i am tired of seeing it. i can understand getting by at gp events. but should up it at 4cc, worlds and after nationals. it becomes a bit more important.

    the skaters when skating are fighting for marketability-and future marketablity-where public opinion matters .

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