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Thread: The state of U.S. Figure Skating

  1. #211
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    Quote Originally Posted by conga View Post
    This comment was not meant to be specific to Alissa, but to all skaters who fail to meet the expectations of "fans" who provide correlations that are not equitable.
    how much responsibility does she have, in your opinion?

    no doubt in your mind we are not real fans, thus the quotation marks. becuz to be a skating fan, or even a fan of u.s. skating, one must be enamored of czisny? otherwise one's eyes and judgement are surely defective? and we're fair-weather fans, if we can even be called fans without the quotation marks.

  2. #212
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spun Silver View Post
    I was responding to Dragonlady who was appalled at the idea of criticizing Alissa.
    There is criticism, and then there is the sort of flat out nastiness and sense of entitlement to kick someone when they're down.

    And for the record, I have not deleted any post. And I still firmly believe that skaters should not have been sent to Europe for a competition two weeks before Worlds, regardless of who's idea it was. The USFSA made the assignment, whether the skaters/coaches asked for it or not. The Americans are the only skaters who travelled overseas to this competition and then went to Worlds.

  3. #213
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonlady View Post
    There is criticism, and then there is the sort of flat out nastiness and sense of entitlement to kick someone when they're down.

    And for the record, I have not deleted any post. And I still firmly believe that skaters should not have been sent to Europe for a competition two weeks before Worlds, regardless of who's idea it was. The USFSA made the assignment, whether the skaters/coaches asked for it or not. The Americans are the only skaters who travelled overseas to this competition and then went to Worlds.

    perhaps those who seek to exonerate her write posts that provoke others to provide commentary to the contrary.


    i still find it 'nasty' that czisny fans can glibly declare that the u.s. ladies don't need or deserve 3 spots at worlds. how many people did you just dismiss, disregard, here?


    to R.D.: you actually believe _something_ will happen, other than the cover-your-butt scenario i proposed, where everybody comes out smelling like roses? i admire your unrelenting faith.
    Last edited by skfan; 04-02-2012 at 12:47 PM.

  4. #214
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    Quote Originally Posted by R.D. View Post
    ...But what needs to happen is an extensive investigation into USFS' World Team selection procedures and the current trajectory we are on. Does it make sense any longer to simply go with the top 2 or top 3 at Nationals every time? Perhaps Nationals needs to be de-emphasized in importance a little so that our skaters peak at Worlds instead? Should we continue to send the "A-Team" to Four Continents (another opportunity to peak early)? Do we need to implement test skates/monitoring sessions for World team members? And, most importantly, should USFS gain the authority to pull anyone from a World Team that is deemed unfit? Should the entire USFS organization be re-structured so it is in better position to help its skaters?

    Questions like these are what we should be asking so that this never happens again.
    These are all excellent points, but my fear is that the process could end up being so unstructured that we will have even more of a selection by whim than we had when a 13th place National finisher jumped over all the others to receive 4CC. What would prevent even more bias being involved and in monitoring sessions and the USFS authority to pull a skater (other than for injury)? How would skaters train for so much unknown?

  5. #215
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    Alissa is not an evil person. She just lacks what it takes to be a strong competition skater: consistently good jump technique and nerves of steel.

    She had no technique whatsoever with her jumps at Worlds. She simply flung herself into the air and then came down on the ice, over and over again. I was surprised that she was given credit for several of the 3-attempts. I didn't see 3 rotations in the air on any of her 'attempts'.

    Something was clearly wrong right from the beginning. When she came on the ice, her face was swollen (from crying?) and she looked terrified. On another board, the suggestion was raised that she had had "a bereavement", but there's been no confirmation of that. After she skated, not a word was passed among Jason, Yuka and Alissa.

    Alissa should have withdrawn after the SP, where she fell twice. She would have spared herself the embarrassment of the FS. Ashley needed only to place top 10 to keep two places for next year, and that looked pretty good after the SP. Yes, the 2nd US lady would have to do the QR next year, but with Alissa's 22nd place in the FS, that was the outcome anyway.

    My guess is Alissa insisted on doing the FS, and one can only wonder why. Perhaps she didn't want to be seen as a quitter. That may have been a misguided decision, but it was not an evil one.

  6. #216
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckm View Post
    Alissa is not an evil person. She just lacks what it takes to be a strong competition skater: consistently good jump technique and nerves of steel.

    She had no technique whatsoever with her jumps at Worlds. She simply flung herself into the air and then came down on the ice, over and over again. I was surprised that she was given credit for several of the 3-attempts. I didn't see 3 rotations in the air on any of her 'attempts'.

    Something was clearly wrong right from the beginning. When she came on the ice, her face was swollen (from crying?) and she looked terrified. On another board, the suggestion was raised that she had had "a bereavement", but there's been no confirmation of that. After she skated, not a word was passed among Jason, Yuka and Alissa.

    Alissa should have withdrawn after the SP, where she fell twice. She would have spared herself the embarrassment of the FS. Ashley needed only to place top 10 to keep two places for next year, and that looked pretty good after the SP. Yes, the 2nd US lady would have to do the QR next year, but with Alissa's 22nd place in the FS, that was the outcome anyway.

    My guess is Alissa insisted on doing the FS, and one can only wonder why. Perhaps she didn't want to be seen as a quitter. That may have been a misguided decision, but it was not an evil one.

    can someone show me a post where she's been called 'evil' in this thread?

  7. #217
    Rooting for the divas with Kwanford Spun Silver's Avatar
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    Thank you.

  8. #218
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    Why do Yuka and Jason get a free pass in this? Of the four single skaters who went to worlds, three of them were from their team (and two were held up at Nationals, red flag #1). They also sent their skaters to Europe 2 weeks before worlds where two skated very poorly and yet didn't withdraw red flag #2. Of all the American skaters at worlds, the only one who didn't skate terribly was the one who wasn't coached by them, red flag #3. How did those two get so much political influence and then let their athletes perform in such a manner? I still call bull when Yuka and Jason say Alissa isn't injured and that Alissa and Jeremy and Rippon are well-trained. I feel like those two are hiding something.

  9. #219
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spun Silver
    That's very nice, Mathman, and I'm sure you were among (Sashs's) kinder critics. But the mea culpa comes a little late, doesn't it?
    True. :ashamed:

    When I first started reading figure skating boards I was quite naive. I thought it was all just fun and games. LIke, ha ha, Michigan is going to crush Ohio State. Ohio Skate can't play ball worth a lick, ha ha.

    It took me a long time to realize how invested we all are in our favorite guys and gals. It's great for figure skating to have passionate fans, but the flip side is that we can't joke around in cheerleading for one side and displaying our cleverness by taking witty jabs at the other.

    The only skater that I ever said anything really bad about (skating-wise) was Irina Slutskaya. True, she did have the colossal nerve to try to beat Michelle Kwan, but now I forgive her for that and I wish I had a couple of those posts back.

    Quote Originally Posted by skfan
    please find where i said that (that Alissa is an evil person).
    Sorry, I didn't mean to be accusing anyone in particular.

    Still, I do not exactly see what this discussion is about. Did Alissa bomb at Worlds? Yes. Was she hiding an injury? We don't know. If so, was she doing it selfishly to deprive other skaters of their rightful due, or nobly because she wanted to do her best no matter what? We don't know.

    Should the USFSA take steps to insure that no U.S. skater ever skates badly in international competition again? Well, that sounds like a good idea. Yes, I approve of that.

    I am reminded of the time when Sasha did not skate well at U.S. nationals one year. Then it was revealed after the fact that she had stayed up the night before baking cookies. Oh my God! Cookies!!! How selfish and irresponsible of her! I bet she ate them all herself, too. I bet they were chocolate chip, too.

  10. #220
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    Quote Originally Posted by brightphoton View Post
    Why do Yuka and Jason get a free pass in this? Of the four single skaters who went to worlds, three of them were from their team (and two were held up at Nationals, red flag #1). They also sent their skaters to Europe 2 weeks before worlds where two skated very poorly and yet didn't withdraw red flag #2. Of all the American skaters at worlds, the only one who didn't skate terribly was the one who wasn't coached by them, red flag #3. How did those two get so much political influence and then let their athletes perform in such a manner? I still call bull when Yuka and Jason say Alissa isn't injured and that Alissa and Jeremy and Rippon are well-trained. I feel like those two are hiding something.
    But they also coach Valentina Marchei from Italy, who actually did quite well, relatively speaking. She had her highest placement at Worlds ever and helped Italy get 3 spots. (Of course Carolina winning made it much easier, but still she easily could have ended up below 12th.)

  11. #221
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    True. :ashamed:

    When I first started reading figure skating boards I was quite naive. I thought it was all just fun and games. LIke, ha ha, Michigan is going to crush Ohio State. Ohio Skate can't play ball worth a lick, ha ha.

    It took me a long time to realize how invested we all are in our favorite guys and gals. It's great for figure skating to have passionate fans, but the flip side is that we can't joke around in cheerleading for one side and displaying our cleverness by taking witty jabs at the other.

    The only skater that I ever said anything really bad about (skating-wise) was Irina Slutskaya. True, she did have the colossal nerve to try to beat Michelle Kwan, but now I forgive her for that and I wish I had a couple of those posts back.
    I don't get the intensity either, quite frankly. I mean there's quite a bit of trash talking in other sports boards, but it's usually taken lightly. (UK will always beat Louisville! Well sadly they did on Saturday. :() If a non-skating fan read some of these posts, they would think that the skater/couple did something personally to some of these posters. In this thread alone we have people angry, ashamed, upset...so on and on..

    As I said before, if a skating competition that you're not even competing in gets you that riled up, you are seriously living the good life. There are some people out there who probably wish that is the only thing they're sad about...

  12. #222
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    to R.D.: you actually believe _something_ will happen, other than the cover-your-butt scenario i proposed, where everybody comes out smelling like roses?
    No, unfortunately.

    I am reminded of the time when Sasha did not skate well at U.S. nationals one year. Then it was revealed after the fact that she had stayed up the night before baking cookies.
    Was that 2003? I think she was 2nd in all other years except for that one, where she was 3rd.

  13. #223
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    Quote Originally Posted by skfan View Post
    how much responsibility does she have, in your opinion?

    no doubt in your mind we are not real fans, thus the quotation marks. becuz to be a skating fan, or even a fan of u.s. skating, one must be enamored of czisny? otherwise one's eyes and judgement are surely defective? and we're fair-weather fans, if we can even be called fans without the quotation marks.
    I must say that you are good at either misinterpreting or putting words in others' mouths...

    To set the record straight, though I don't know why I feel a need to: I am a long time fan of figure skating and do not like to see any skater ripped apart for any reason. Just not in my nature. Yes my heart goes out to her and while I like Alissa, I like many skaters from many different countries and from all the disciplines.

    IMO, athletes are responsible to be prepared, but this preparation varies by athlete with different aspects receiving more significance based on the strengths and weaknesses of the athlete. Was Alissa responsible for reporting an injury? Yes, rules require that now, even though, as one poster mentioned, athletes used to be encouraged to compete injured. If, however, you believe that responsibility extends to athletes withdrawing from an earned spot because of nerves, or a bad short program, or a bad competition prior to the next outing, then no, I disagree. Overcoming and/or dealing with these obstacles are what athletes are taught to do repeatedly as they make this journey. There are also many examples from all walks of life where those experiences result in far superior outcomes. If you are an athlete or performer and have never experienced obstacles, then you are definitely very lucky.

    Having said all that, had there been a clearly defined process already in place that provided for USFS to review results of post-national competitions, I would not have had a problem with Alissa being replaced. The important term is in italics.

  14. #224
    Rooting for the divas with Kwanford Spun Silver's Avatar
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    ^ Don't forget that she once went shopping in Paris. The nerve! Those two sins were brought up over and over as the evidence for her supposed laziness. Right, the laziness of the 21- consecutive-time medalist. Just for the record, MM, I don't have any recollection of your being negative toward Sasha.

    I don't understand your point here:
    It took me a long time to realize how invested we all are in our favorite guys and gals. It's great for figure skating to have passionate fans, but the flip side is that we can't joke around in cheerleading for one side and displaying our cleverness by taking witty jabs at the other.
    The discussion IMO is about wanting to know what the heck happened so it won't happen again. The frustration IMO is that there was a very, very good clue that it would happen at the International Challenge -- to which she should never have gone in the first place, esp. after having complained in the past that 4C's (weeks before the IC) was itself too close to Worlds.

    No one is calling Miss Czisny a bad person, for heaven's sakes. But it appears that she either exercised bad judgment herself in competing in bad shape or allowed someone to compel her to compete when she must have known she could not do well. At her age, she needs to make that kind of call herself. That's the criticism, I think.

    More fundamentally, fans are going to have strong opinions, pro or con, according to the athletes' performance. You really can't expect to have fans and then say they're only allowed to express positive opinions.

  15. #225
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs. P View Post

    As I said before, if a skating competition that you're not even competing in gets you that riled up, you are seriously living the good life. There are some people out there who probably wish that is the only thing they're sad about...
    I said this in not so many words about eight pages ago. And it is either that your life is beyond fantastic, or you are projecting unexpressed feelings about other problems onto skating. Best deal with them head-on instead of taking them out on some athletes.

    It's been over two months since I lost someone very close and very dear to me in a horrible accident. I still think of her and the accident and my mom's voice on the phone telling me every single day. I am fairly certain that I will not be thinking of Alissa's bad skate at Worlds or anyone else's bad skate anywhere every day in two months.

    Sometimes sports fans, of any sport, lose perspective on the importance of such things. I pray that no heart ache comes to remind those of you who are so upset and angry and ashamed over this of what really matters, but it surely will. Because the world often brings heart aches.

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