The state of U.S. Figure Skating

[Poodlepal]

[QUOTE=gkelly;631086]I can't speak for Poodlepal, but I don't think it's about the money or the ice time. Rather, skaters in Japan have more media attention and performance opportunities, which may include money as well, so they're more formidable opponents to the US skaters than was the case 20 years ago. (Ito was, and then Sato, but they didn't have more top skaters than the US for another whole skating generation).

Yeah, that's what I meant. If the Japanese skaters are getting more money from endorsements, etc. they have more to spend on training, better costumes, choreography, etc. There would also be more kids wanting to sign up for lessons, because they'd see a lot of skating on tv.

As for the post-Kristi vacuum--it was awful, but it lasted only 1 year. The next year Nancy won the silver medal (and to some, should've won gold) at the Olympics. The post-Nancy vacuum left us with Nicole Bobek winning a bronze, then the Michelle/Sarah/Sasha/Tara/Kimmie golden era. Since Kimmie's downfall, there has not even been as much as a bronze medal in 7 years. That's some vacuum!

[Nadine]

I've changed my mind, I no longer have hope for the Americans, especially after today.

May they ALL go down in flames, including the USFSA, the most pathetic ragtag group of American skaters I've ever seen in my life. Disgusting.

To h(double LL) with them all. I've had to witness this caca for the past two years upon my return for Zhenya, and him only. It's just too bad that in the process I've had to see the Americans. Yuck. Yuck. Yuck.


ps: they make me disgusted to be an American. And that's the truth.

[bigsisjiejie]

ps: they make me disgusted to be an American. And that's the truth.

Seriously?? Why are you taking this so personally? It's only a sporting event, which in the Grand Scheme of What's Important in the World, doesn't amount to all that much. I think you need to get a grip....

[Nadine]

They represent my country, America, and therefore they represent me, an American.

And as an American I'm stating how I feel. If you have a problem with that feel free to PM me and we will discuss.

[Dragonlady]

I think of lot of parents are reluctant to put their children into figure skating these days. In the past, there were fewer sporting opportunities for girls and skating was one sport where they were welcomed and treated well. But the emphasis on super young girls doing big triple jumps after the demise of figures, many of whom left the sport due to injuries, gave the impression that figure skating was eating up young girls and spitting them out. A lot of adults looked at skaters like Oksanna Bauill and Tara Lipinski both of whom "retired" at age 15 and said "This is no way to raise a child" and I would have to agree with them.

Back to back judging scandals at the Olympics further discouraged parents from putting their hard earned money into a sport where the results were "fixed" from the beginning. Now there are lots of sports which welcome girls and hence, lots of other options for kids who want to compete. The money is better spent on sports where the kids can have fun, as opposed to being subjected to unreasonable amounts of pressure, and where their child has a fair chance to win.

Every time someone insists that politics play a role in the judging, even though others say that the results are resonable, it are enforces the idea that it's all fixed. Would you spend hundreds of thousands of dollars training your child for a sport where the results are all fixed?

[Mrs. P]

The reason I started this thread was this post from the Worlds Men SP thread:

Now that the US has thoroughly stunk it up in all four singles slots, maybe the USFSA will finally invest some real PR love into D/W and the rest of the ice dance program give it's the only reliable leg US skating has to stand on. Also, invest more in the up coming pair teams that are all showing so much promise. I hate to be so negative, but IMO, this current generation of singles skaters are all a lost cause. At best, they are hot and cold (Abbott and Wagner) and at worst, they are utterly unfit as competitors (Czizny and Rippon). I know they are working hard, but they are just not doing it at an almost predictable level at this point. I cant even really get myself excited for US ladies or men at this point.

It seems that even among fans that Ice Dance gets no love. In my first post, I was hoping people would notice that Pairs and Ice Dance did quite well at this competition (give or take a few mistakes and a mini-meltdown from the Shibs). But we are three pages in and it's all gloom and doom because of the singles skaters with few acknowledgement of the placement of the pairs and Ice Dance.

Pairs has some of the toughest competition out there, and the fact that both D/C and M/B both were able to be in the top 10 is something noteworthy, especially since it's the first for both teams in their current incarnation (Obviously 3 of the 4 have been there before with other partners). I'm not saying they've arrived — they have a lot of work to do as far as polish and upping their levels. But I was actually left hopeful about the future of Pairs for once. Back home we still have Evora and Ladwig, Donlan and Speroff and new competitor Yankowskas and Reagan!

And Ice Dance. All three teams were top 10. The U.S. and Russia were the only two countries to have all three teams in the top 10. That is awesome. Sure the Shibs had a bad day, but they fought for their dance and still managed to keep it together for a top 10 finish. And that's just the people who went. We have Chock and Bates, Samuelson and Gilles, Alderidge and Eaton coming up from juniors....So excited!

Also consider this: The U.S. has had 3 spots in Ice Dance since 2006.

Yes singles are tough...but there's more to figure skating than men and ladies.

[Poodlepal]

I think of lot of parents are reluctant to put their children into figure skating these days. In the past, there were fewer sporting opportunities for girls and skating was one sport where they were welcomed and treated well. But the emphasis on super young girls doing big triple jumps after the demise of figures, many of whom left the sport due to injuries, gave the impression that figure skating was eating up young girls and spitting them out. A lot of adults looked at skaters like Oksanna Bauill and Tara Lipinski both of whom "retired" at age 15 and said "This is no way to raise a child" and I would have to agree with them.

Back to back judging scandals at the Olympics further discouraged parents from putting their hard earned money into a sport where the results were "fixed" from the beginning. Now there are lots of sports which welcome girls and hence, lots of other options for kids who want to compete. The money is better spent on sports where the kids can have fun, as opposed to being subjected to unreasonable amounts of pressure, and where their child has a fair chance to win.

Every time someone insists that politics play a role in the judging, even though others say that the results are resonable, it are enforces the idea that it's all fixed. Would you spend hundreds of thousands of dollars training your child for a sport where the results are all fixed?

Very perceptive. It makes it sound like parents put their girls in figure skating almost against their will, though. Well, maybe they do, since they have to start so young. I was a girl athlete very briefly (before my body changed) and felt I had a lot of other options other than figure skating though. Soccer, softball and basketball have always been around for little girls, at least since the 1970's. I agree about the eating girls and spitting them out aspect, though. Neither of the three sports I mentioned do that, nor do they need a very low weight requirement. US gymnastics, the sport that needs the most training time and the fewest calories is thriving, though, with the US national champion always in the all-around hunt at worlds. So go figure. It's a mystery to me!

[Poodlepal]

I've changed my mind, I no longer have hope for the Americans, especially after today.

May they ALL go down in flames, including the USFSA, the most pathetic ragtag group of American skaters I've ever seen in my life. Disgusting.

To h(double LL) with them all. I've had to witness this caca for the past two years upon my return for Zhenya, and him only. It's just too bad that in the process I've had to see the Americans. Yuck. Yuck. Yuck.


ps: they make me disgusted to be an American. And that's the truth.

Nadine, I hear ya. I feel the same way. I felt grossed out watching Adam and Jeremy today, and I didn't even see the short programs of anybody. I have a smidgen of hope for Ashley coming in 4-5. She's a long program skater, so she may move up. But I'm not optimistic.

And no need to wish they all go down in flames. They're doing it quite nicely without your help. Let's hope this is the last we ever see of Jeremy, Adam and Alissa Czisny.

I think the USFS has been trying to turn these second-tier level skaters into stars, or hoping they would become so. Except for one GPF victory, they have been nothing short of mediocre on the world stage. It's like if it were the 00's without Michelle, Sasha and Sarah, and the US had to make do with Tonia K., Angela N. and Jenny K.

It's time to give up on this bunch. Put the support behind Ross Miner, or new n improved CAroline, or somebody. But please, no more Adam, Alissa or Jeremy.

[brightphoton]

Bwahahaha, Nadine, you're hilarious

[R.D.]

It seems that even among fans that Ice Dance gets no love. In my first post, I was hoping people would notice that Pairs and Ice Dance did quite well at this competition (give or take a few mistakes and a mini-meltdown from the Shibs). But we are three pages in and it's all gloom and doom because of the singles skaters with few acknowledgement of the placement of the pairs and Ice Dance.

Yes, I realize that we have strong dance teams- but I just cannot get into it. I mean, consider that I watched Davis/White and Virtue/Moir at worlds and immediately felt slighted at the result. Did nothing to disprove my theory that the results are pre-determined. Yawn.

And as for pairs, the US has never been a serious force, part of the reason being our couples never stay together. Chances Denney/Coughlin and Marley/Brubaker will be no more after this season? Roll a die. Or maybe even flip a coin!

[fairly4]

for me it is because the USFSA pushes the ones they want -you win junior nationals they automatically put you up and hold you up regardless of how you skate well, when you skate well, why you skate well.

in the past they did cheat for tara-not so much because she kinda of fought -but she did ur her triple triple,sarah did the same, sasha did the same-but had artistric and held her up so much at the expense of jumps,
other countries, federations focused on cleaning up those jumps, and made their skaters improve said jumps, tranisitions, speed, flow etc . the U.S. just let the skaters they wanted up be-like mirai, sasha, rachel, ashley to a point, alissa, jeremy, adam, pairs, they didnt care.
when had camp which i thought was suppose to have the programs ready -they didn't they just skated.
so the other countries caught up because they focused on what they wanted and needed to be done to be better.
the u.s has slogged along instead of propping up the skaters who skated cleanly(although not all the time) like michelle they back the skaters who didn't do jumps right in favor of others. kimmie got nailed after she won worlds and hard time coming back-so she left the sport. instead of helping the U.s. skaters get better in said jumps, they just focus and hope on next best skater-prop up the ones the older gold medalist want. they used to have a say in the matter-they watch and boy are they so-so-like the so called mentoring phase which didn't help but hurt, they prop up certain clubs skaters in favor of better skaters below the so-called club skaters.
nationals the past years is best example-all the skaters ur, edge call , two foot jumps and they only call out caroline zhang and others they don't want. sasha 2010 skate at nationals overscores
this year mirai wind sin 7tht , rachel 6th, i can go on and on. but i think it is save to say the U.S. only keeps up the skaters they want regardless of the situation, cost and who is better skater.
they send who might be better skaters, but not exactly the best. (both mind, skating ability, handle the situation, fight for it)

[fairly4]

why should u.s skater skate well after all michelle did land 7 clean triple in 98 yet tara won because youngest base on ur triple/triple 5 jumps with a juniorish skate-why

2002 sarah won based on so-called 2 triple triples, no artistic and ur jumps.
even kristi won with messed up program-fall, hand down

2002-michelle was counted as a fall-not a trip.

2006 shizuka won with 5 clean-good jumps

2010-yu-na won with good jumps-decent artistry
inother words u.s. ladies has tara, sarah, kristi as examples-bad jumping technique wins as long you have federation and gold medalist behind you regardless.

race also plays a factor in there-
however now the situation is overblown a bit, but the U.s needs to send skaters that can handle and skate well, not give up and make excuses at every turn.

[louisa05]

This is probably not something that will be well received anywhere as they seem to have universal admiration. But rather than screaming bloody murder at USFSA, questioning Nationals' judging or timing or whatever, or blaming race or all of this other stuff, has it occurred to anyone else that three of the four singles skaters at Worlds train at the same facility with the same coaches? Perhaps questions about preparation need to focus on Sato and Dungjen? Barring a meltdown, the one singles skater not coached by them will have the highest finish, after all.

[Nadine]

Worlds is now over and I find I still feel the same way. I mean I'm happy for Ashley finishing the highest of any American lady since 2006, but overall I'm just really unhappy with American skating in general and have been for years now, though there was a spark when Sasha Cohen made her comeback during the Olympic Year. But if we're honest with ourselves American skating is dead and has been for some time now. And this Worlds was the last nail in the coffin.

I'm just glad it's all over with, lol.

[Jtsmith12]

I made a thread like this before but why does USFS not have some type of national training camp like usa gymnastics does ? I mean I know we have champs camp but is that really doing anything ?