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Thread: The state of U.S. Figure Skating

  1. #61
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    I'm wondering if there is not adequate preparation for competition, not adequate managing of training to prepare them to peak at Worlds. They all three peaked for the season at Nationals and apparently had absolutely nothing left for Worlds. That's a problem of preparation not relationship. And preparation can be fixed.
    But that's what will happen if you make Nationals THE qualifier for Olympics/Worlds. The skaters will want to do their best at Nationals to get on the world team in the first place. Instead, if you make Nationals only part of the equation (i.e. send only the champion), that might ease the pressure a bit.

    How about holding US Nationals in December instead, like most of the European countries and Japan? Or move it back to early January like it was before 2007.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jammers View Post
    Caroline still has major weaknesses though. Her lack of speed and small jumps would still be a major problem at Worlds for instance.
    Her score at 4CC would have put her in the Top 5 at Worlds and given the US a chance at 3 spots.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by cornell08 View Post
    Her score at 4CC would have put her in the Top 5 at Worlds and given the US a chance at 3 spots.
    In all fairness, she probably wouldn't have gotten the same score at Worlds as she did at 4CC even if she skated exactly the same. It would have to be at least a bit lower.

  4. #64
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    The state of US figure skating by discipline as per the results of these recent World Championships:

    Ice dancing: beyond fantastic! Three young teams, including a brand new one, all in the top 10, including the silver medalists! The best darn ice dance coaching team lives in the US. America is the premier power in ice dancing in the world right now. Who'd thunk it just a few years ago?

    Pairs: A discipline whose prospects I wailed and bemoaned on these very boards not so long ago. And boy am I larded with crow chow. Two teams in the top 10! That's the most of any country save Russia and China (which the US is tied with). So in that one regard, the US is in the same club as the two established pairs powerhouses. And both US teams are near-mint in newness. They can only improve. Exciting stuff.

    Men: Dismal. The two competitors we sent did horrible! Clearly, men's figure skating is a lost cause in the US. From now on, all male US competitors will be barred from singles competition and shunted to ice dancing or pairs instead.

    Women: Great and bad. The bad, of course, is Alissa. She spent basically the entire free skate rolling and sliding around the ice in her nighty, only occasionally getting up to do a spin. But her compatriot Ashley Wagner did the opposite. Ashley landed the point gettingest amount of jumps of any woman that night, and everything else was pretty good, too. She did great enough to place 4th. She has firmly announced herself as a world contender with her last few competitions. Ms. Wagner may have been content with being bridesmaid in the past, but now she is THE bride and she won't stop until she marries every groom in sight.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by krenseby View Post
    In all fairness, she probably wouldn't have gotten the same score at Worlds as she did at 4CC even if she skated exactly the same. It would have to be at least a bit lower.
    A bit perhaps, but between Caroline, Agnes and Alissa...Caroline is the toughest mentally. If she's skated well in practice, she skates well in competition. There have been no "oh but she prepared so well" followed by implosions.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by cornell08 View Post
    [Caroline Zhang's] score at 4CC would have put her in the Top 5 at Worlds and given the US a chance at 3 spots.
    ok:

    1) scores at 4CC were generous- she would have likely scored at least 5 pts lower for identical performance at worlds- see Ashley Wagner's FS

    2) there was no pressure at 4CC. There would have been at Worlds. X-factor at play here - see Ashley Wagner SP

    3) I should point out that Wagner's 4CC score, even subtracting the 5-7 points, would have been enough for the win or a close 2nd. But Wagner did not finish 1st or 2nd here- she finished 4th. YOU NEVER KNOW WHAT A SKATER WILL BRING TO A COMPETITION.

  7. #67
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    i don't think caroline zhang should have been second and on the world team or anything, she still had problems in the fs. her lutz was bad so i can see why they put alissa ahead. they just should have saw the warning sign at CC.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by R.D. View Post
    ok:

    1) scores at 4CC were generous- she would have likely scored at least 5 pts lower for identical performance at worlds- see Ashley Wagner's FS

    2) there was no pressure at 4CC. There would have been at Worlds. X-factor at play here - see Ashley Wagner SP

    3) I should point out that Wagner's 4CC score, even subtracting the 5-7 points, would have been enough for the win or a close 2nd. But Wagner did not finish 1st or 2nd here- she finished 4th. YOU NEVER KNOW WHAT A SKATER WILL BRING TO A COMPETITION.
    Wagner has a history of botched SP. You never know exactly what a skater will bring. BUT YOU HAVE AN INKLING.

  9. #69
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    Eh, we can't know how Caroline would've done. She's really only had two strong competitions now. Granted, I think she would've done better than 22nd and the writing did seem to be on the wall with Czisny's recent results. Caroline also did beat the 5th and 7th placers here at 4CC and it's unlikely that she would've dropped below 8th (150.10) with two decent performances, but really who knows what she would've done here.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by cornell08 View Post
    Wagner has a history of botched SP. You never know exactly what a skater will bring. BUT YOU HAVE AN INKLING.
    She was doing fine in the SP this year actually- finally got over the hump at a major comp (Nationals) and even 4CCs- I think she was feeling it at Worlds though. But again, this is good experience for her. Next time, hopefully she can do better.

    UP TO NATIONALS, Czisny fully earned her Worlds spot. But in the two months leading up to worlds, something happened. Was USFS monitoring her and making sure she's in top condition like they should? (They should have done the same with Wagner, too, and all the other US World Team members.) Challenge cup should have been a huge red flag for USFS but they blew it off. She probably should have been replaced.......


    .....but IMO it wouldn't have changed the result much. Again, the alternate was Zawadzki. I wonder if she would have to qualify if she were sent- with her shaky FSs it's not a given that she would have even made it to the SP. So again, damned if we do,...
    Last edited by R.D.; 03-31-2012 at 09:17 PM.

  11. #71
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    I think that's a good point RD, that it wouldn't have mattered whoever else we sent because they would have had to finish in the top 10 to help us get 3 spots. Any mistakes would have kept Agnes or Caroline out.

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kissx3 View Post
    Eh, we can't know how Caroline would've done. She's really only had two strong competitions now. Granted, I think she would've done better than 22nd and the writing did seem to be on the wall with Czisny's recent results.
    Then again, you know...I thought Czisny would have done better than 22nd even AFTER Challenge cup. But not much better- perhaps mid-teens.

  13. #73
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    I think just about any of them would have finished better than 22nd. Worst showing for a US woman that I remember.

  14. #74
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    Maybe the state of US skating is not so bad, I think it's more who was sent to Worlds that is the problem.

    Ashley was great, 4th at Worlds and 3rd in the FS is nothing to sneeze at. Then we have Gracie Gold coming up, Mirai if she can get her mojo back (yes I know she is a headcase but never in the Alissa category), Caroline skating well, and Agnes and Christina very good jumpers when "on" and young enough that they have time to improve everything else.

    In men, I'm encouraged. Denis Ten was 7th here and didn't skate that much better than he did at JW - Josh Farris creamed D10 at JW, so honestly, had he been sent to Worlds and skated like he did at JW here, he probably would have finished 6th. I honestly think he would have, we saw D10's PCS shoot up significantly just from being at a senior event, and with the generous scoring and extra element in the FS, I really think Josh would have been close to 80 for SP and 150+ for FS with his JW performances. And he's just barely 17. Jason Brown is great but the lack of 3a worries me, will he end up like Rippon? In any event I don't think Rippon will be on the World team next year, if Farris can have a respectable GP debut and skate fairly consistently - he has the same strengths as Rippon but with the huge benefit of a much better/more consistent 3a, and his 4t is so much closer than Adam's 4s, and is 5 years younger, so really its a no brainer there. Ricky I'm sure will bounce back, and again, he has the solid 3a(-3t!!) and his quad is coming along better than Rippon's. Ross is improving nicely and becoming pretty consistent/reliable, and is focusing on quads in the offseason. If Jason Brown does manage to get a solid 3a, he will surely contend as well. Then someone else could rise to the plate - Armin, Max, Keegan, etc are all capable. And we have Nathan Chen for post 2014, that kid is a phenom, I know he's 75 pounds and 4'9", but I think he will still be a force after he grows, and realistically he'll probably end up about Oda's size when fully grown so his small size isn't too concerning now, plus his technique is spot on and he's now being coached by Raphael. As for Jeremy, I don't think he'll ever get it together at Worlds, but his PCS are really good, so I don't have a problem with him going to Worlds next season IF HE EARNS IT (no being held up, please).

    My ideal/realistic choices for Worlds next year are:

    Ashley and Gracie for the ladies (or Mirai if she gets her mojo back, or Christina if she can consistently be hitting 7 triple FS and improves artistically)

    Josh and Ricky for the men (or Ross if Ricky is still shaky and he gets a quad, or Jeremy if he can get his TES up)

    Marley/Brubaker and Donlan/Speroff for the pairs (or Denney/Coughlin or Yankowskas/Reagan if Donlan is still fudging her jumps all the time)
    Last edited by silverlake22; 03-31-2012 at 10:46 PM.

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bentley View Post
    I think just about any of them would have finished better than 22nd. Worst showing for a US woman that I remember.
    Can't even imagine what would it have been if falls should get zero points or progressive deduction for each additional fall as suggested by some figure skating fans.

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