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Thread: Men Free Skates

  1. #1036
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    Quote Originally Posted by wonderlen3000 View Post
    Don't you know PChan has his 'Minions', namely the ISU judges, protecting him 24/7??? lol


    Better watch what y'all say about him here!

  2. #1037
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImaginaryPogue View Post
    The thing you need to recall is that getting eights for PCS is actually a recent phenomenon. Stephane Lambiel's "Poeta" is a legendary program from a legendary skater, but it barely skimmed into the eights at Euros 2008...
    You know, I think that is a big part of the problem right there.

    Leaving individual skaters out of it, suppose the audience sees a skater fall, stumble, make obvious errors in execution, while doing nothing special in terms of performance art. Then the scores come up. WHOA! Look at those whopping marks! This was a spectacular performance, and if you don't believe it then you are an ignoramus who hasn't studied his CoP!

    To me, there is a bit of ISU flim-flam going on. No, Speedy, the audience can't see the Emperor's New Clothes.

  3. #1038
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post

    No, Speedy, the audience can't see the Emperor's New Clothes.
    Speedy is naked? Is that why he's booed everywhere?

  4. #1039
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    [QUOTE=Mathman;633695]You know, I think that is a big part of the problem right there.

    Leaving individual skaters out of it, suppose the audience sees a skater fall, stumble, make obvious errors in execution, while doing nothing special in terms of performance art. Then the scores come up. WHOA! Look at those whopping marks! This was a spectacular performance, and if you don't believe it then you are an ignoramus who hasn't studied his CoP!

    I agree 100%. You made your point better than I could have.

    A sport that can only be enjoyed by those who have memorized the rule book is a sport in deep trouble. I don't watch football, but I do watch the Superbowl and, not knowing many of the rules, I still understand it. Touchdown--good! I like baseball, but I don't know what's a balk or what the infield fly rule is, exactly. But I know that it's good if someone hits a home run (if you're rooting for that team, of course).

    When non-skaters like myself watch figure skating, we think: falling, bad. Boring program, bad. The person with a more interesting program who didn't fall must be the one who won, right? Nope! Didn't memorize all the rules. Maybe I'll watch something else now. In golf, is it good if the little ball goes in the hole?

  5. #1040
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImaginaryPogue View Post
    how often did two skaters from the same nation deserve 8+ (from the past three seasons, remember)? Really, only Japan (Kozuka and Takahashi) does, and at last year's worlds, both scored eights in the LP.
    I agree with this, but I’m not talking about last year’s worlds only. By **consistently** scoring 80+ on PCS Daisuke and Kozuka both should have scored 80+ throughout the whole season, not just once at the worlds when Kozuka had the skate of his life.
    Quote Originally Posted by NMURA View Post
    In Russia, Hanyu was overmarked in the SP. He deserved -1 deduction (many people said so) but the panel didn't notice. That alone is enough to override the margin of 0.03 points. Hanyu and his coach were clearly surprised to see the SP score (same reaction as the FS in Nice). His "similar" SP at GPF was 3 points lower than CoR.
    If Patrick did not receive -1 deduction at 4CC and Daisuke did not receive -1 deduction at the Worlds, then Hanyu should not have gotten -1 deduction at COR, either. And even if he did get -1 deduction, he still should have beaten Javier because Javier was very overmarked on PCS—Javier should not have outscored Hanyu by 3.79 points on PCS. It should have been the other way around. Hanyu should have outscored Javier by at least 3.79 points on PCS.

    Mathman, has something mysterious just happened? I saw you posting a reply to NMURA a minute ago and now your post disappeared…

  6. #1041
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    You know, I think that is a big part of the problem right there.

    Leaving individual skaters out of it, suppose the audience sees a skater fall, stumble, make obvious errors in execution, while doing nothing special in terms of performance art. Then the scores come up. WHOA! Look at those whopping marks! This was a spectacular performance, and if you don't believe it then you are an ignoramus who hasn't studied his CoP!

    To me, there is a bit of ISU flim-flam going on. No, Speedy, the audience can't see the Emperor's New Clothes.
    I largely agree.

  7. #1042
    and... World Peace! Tonichelle's Avatar
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    I don't have the rules memorized, and there are skates/wins that make me go hmmmmm, but it's not the IJS that makes me feel disenchanted by the sport...

  8. #1043
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    You know, I think that is a big part of the problem right there.

    Leaving individual skaters out of it, suppose the audience sees a skater fall, stumble, make obvious errors in execution, while doing nothing special in terms of performance art. Then the scores come up. WHOA! Look at those whopping marks! This was a spectacular performance, and if you don't believe it then you are an ignoramus who hasn't studied his CoP!
    Let's put the individual skaters back in. Who are in the scenario you described? i.e. an actual skater (or a number of skaters) who falls, stumbles, make obvious errors in executions, while doing nothing special in terms of performance art and get the WHOA whopping marks.

    Does the skating audience see and care about only errors and performing art?

  9. #1044
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    Here's an "interesting article: http://www.thespec.com/sports/articl...ear-of-ontario

    "To the layman’s eye, Chan’s work did not look nearly as laudable as it did to the practised one. But every member of the skating cognoscenti contacted by The Spectator said there was no doubt that Chan was the best skater of the day. Some even added “by far.”

    - I seriously wondered if they contacted all Patrick Chan's fans...

  10. #1045
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by doctor2014 View Post
    Mathman, has something mysterious just happened? I saw you posting a reply to NMURA a minute ago and now your post disappeared…
    Sorry. I had a question for NMURA about whether he had changed his mind about Hanyu from last year, but then it came to me that I was remembering NMURA's earlier posts wrong, so I deleted my question.

  11. #1046
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    Quote Originally Posted by Becki View Post
    Here's an "interesting article: http://www.thespec.com/sports/articl...ear-of-ontario

    "To the layman’s eye, Chan’s work did not look nearly as laudable as it did to the practised one. But every member of the skating cognoscenti contacted by The Spectator said there was no doubt that Chan was the best skater of the day. Some even added “by far.”

    - I seriously wondered if they contacted all Patrick Chan's fans...
    And someone thought you're a fan of Patrick

  12. #1047
    Forever stuck on those steps Li'Kitsu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Becki
    Here's an "interesting article: http://www.thespec.com/sports/articl...ear-of-ontario

    "To the layman’s eye, Chan’s work did not look nearly as laudable as it did to the practised one. But every member of the skating cognoscenti contacted by The Spectator said there was no doubt that Chan was the best skater of the day. Some even added “by far.”

    - I seriously wondered if they contacted all Patrick Chan's fans...
    That article looks pretty meh in general to me. I don't agree with: "Second, it’s becoming clear that, even when they’re not at their very best, [..] Virtue-Moir are usually better than anyone else in their field" at all, f.e. (took Chan out because this sentence looks extremly wrong to me especially concerning the IceDancers).
    Add to that, that I'm getting tired of this "you're not smart enough for COP"-thing. I hear again and again how big part of what Chan has over Takahashi are his speed and the higher jumps - and no one needs to be an expert in skating to see that. The audience in france definitly could see that too. It didn't change their minds in favor of Chan though.

  13. #1048
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    Quote Originally Posted by Becki View Post
    Here's an "interesting article: http://www.thespec.com/sports/articl...ear-of-ontario

    "To the layman’s eye, Chan’s work did not look nearly as laudable as it did to the practised one. But every member of the skating cognoscenti contacted by The Spectator said there was no doubt that Chan was the best skater of the day. Some even added “by far.”

    - I seriously wondered if they contacted all Patrick Chan's fans...
    Well, they did - the whole skating cognoscenti, who, along with all the judges, are all Patrick's ubers or minions.

    I don't know what kind of carrot or stick he has, but apparently it works superbly. I'm scared into doing all his bidding for my safety.

  14. #1049
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    Quote Originally Posted by Becki View Post
    Here's an "interesting article: http://www.thespec.com/sports/articl...ear-of-ontario

    "To the layman’s eye, Chan’s work did not look nearly as laudable as it did to the practised one. But every member of the skating cognoscenti contacted by The Spectator said there was no doubt that Chan was the best skater of the day. Some even added “by far.”

    - I seriously wondered if they contacted all Patrick Chan's fans...
    The Spectator's Steve Milton is known as a seasoned journalist and he writes about Figure Skating for decades, way before COP was even born. If he said he made an effort to contact skating experts, then that means he really contacted a wide range of pros in this sport or else he would have reported dissenting opinions as well. Milton was also on the record to say he didn't believe Chan had a chance of winning the 2010 Olympics in Vancouver (due to lack of a Quad and injuries) before the Games actually happened. Hence, this journalist is by no means a Patrick Chan's fan but nor is he a detractor.

    As for skating experts contacted, why should you be surprised? In two years, there has to be at least over a hundred ISU and International Judges who all more or less came to the same conclusion, competition after competition. Is it so surprising those who actually studied the rules and are trained to give professional assessments all agree on the win? Patrick Chan himself knew he had done enough for the win before even leaving the ice, so did many other people. None of his closest competitors expressed doubts about the results, the only thing Takahashi wasn't fine with was in fact Hanyu beating him in the FS, not Chan beating him, which he made his discomfort / disagreement re: Hanyu very clear. When Takahashi got only 173 something and Hanyu was about 12 points behind after SP with a similar LP score, it really doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that a LP worthy of 200, if absolute perfect, is not going to be knocked down by a fall worth about 5-6 points and a downgraded jump (3S=>2S) worth about 4-5 points. The mental math was actually quite simple but I guess it was only pretended to be shocking to largely disgruntled Takahashi die hards who obviously knew 173 was not going to make it unless Chan implodes in nuclear melt down fashion.
    Last edited by wallylutz; 04-01-2012 at 07:40 PM.

  15. #1050
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    Quote Originally Posted by Li'Kitsu View Post
    The audience in france definitly could see that too.
    I am always amused when people pretend to be mind readers especially when they can't even see the people they are supposedly reading. Something tells me if we leave the decision up to the French audience to decide, Joubert and Amodio won't be off the podium and the same people thinking French audience is their ally will turn sour very, very quickly as well.

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