04-02-2012, 12:23 AM
By what criteria? :lol: The Shibs won because of a splatfest by P/B and their bronze definetly got some criticism. Many talked about their limited potential artistically.
Originally Posted by wallylutz
In contrast there's nothing particularly shocking about Hanyu coming up with a bronze medal. He was fourth at GPF, and a lot of people felt he should have finished ahead of Fernandez there. He's a better skater than Fernandez. And he beat Fernandez at Cup of Russia. Not to mention rather than begrudgingly handing Hanyu a bronze because others were screwing up, and he was perfect. Hanyu had his own mistakes. And was 7th in the short program. The judges went literally gaga of his performance, and put him 2nd in the free with a fall, with scores that were quite close to Chan's overall free skate. Where Shibs ever scored closely to D/W and V/M....
I will say this Hanyu has been heavily hyped as the second coming since he dominated Juniors two year ago at 14/15. The kid has proceeded to deliver big time, debuting a quad last year, putting in solid results. Including a Four Continents Silver medal (with a performance that would have won him bronze at Worlds). His first GP performance wasn't the greatest but I don't know if you realize this kids training situation being form Sendai, Japan was hardly the best. He had to go on tour to get proper training time. His training situation improved and throughout the year his skates got better and better and his scores sky rocketed... Then he goes out and delivers beautifully in the free at worlds.
Hanyu is one of the most consistent guys in the field too with a beautiful quad. And artistically, the kid also brings with him standing ovations. He got won at GPF, he got one at Worlds. He's a beautiful skater with a real sensitivity to the music. Juniorish sure, but amazing for his age.
As mentioned earlier the judges were clearly sending him a message by giving him that score with a fall. And it wasn't we will begrudgingly give you bronze because others made a mistake....
The fact that he skates for Japan with all of their amazing men has probably done wonders for Hanyu. Because its made him improve, and improve and not rest on laurels. As mentioned Hanyu skated for any other country, he'd have been at worlds last year. With the media and others singing his praises. Instead he has to face the likes of Oda, Dai, Kozuka to even get out of Japan and so knows he has to improve, learn to compete and be good. The kid clearly wants it and knows how to deliver.
Once again, do you know how many people have been gushing about Hanyu for years. People have compared him to a Plushenko like talent.
Last edited by bekalc; 04-02-2012 at 12:30 AM.
04-02-2012, 12:28 AM
I must say...I saw the free skate of Patrick and Daisuke and I was just floored that Patrick won....just floored??? I mean, how many mistakes can you make and your PCS STILL cushions you and keeps you on top? What a travesty. No wonder I don't watch figure skating anymore and just wait till I can see the performances on Youtube.
04-02-2012, 12:30 AM
@bekalc: Well said. My points exactly, and the fact that Hanyu skated amazingly in the LP. He didn't win bronze 'cause others did poorly. I mean Brian Joubert had an amazing LP, but only came in 4th behind Hanyu. Hanyu earned his medal.
It's so hard to live up to such high expectations, and he has certainly delivered. I didn't care much about the Junior skaters in 2010, but after a Japanese friend told me to look out for Hanyu, I decided to search him up. He had a rough freshman year at Senior's, but demonstrated he belongs in the top ranks.
04-02-2012, 12:44 AM
Can you please specifically point out exactly what movement Daisuke repeats again and again? I am genuinely curious about this....
Originally Posted by Boeing787
04-02-2012, 12:50 AM
I also hope that there's some kind of inquiry as well.... In this day and age, I thought we've overcome the time where winners were allowed to win with egregious mistakes and get by with inflated PCS? The new scoring system didn't change a darn thing about the worst aspects of figure skating.
04-02-2012, 12:52 AM
Too many. Even his SP and his LP of this year are similar. He used his wrists the same way in both programs. He touched his head and face so very often. Made him look like that was the only way he knew to express music.
Originally Posted by evangeline
To be honest, I think Takahashi was wonderful but he was overated in artistry by his fans.
Last edited by Bluebonnet; 04-02-2012 at 12:55 AM.
04-02-2012, 12:53 AM
Hahah No surprise at all, as you also think he has a long way to go till he get a world spot on Japan team next year and even after the way he skated his FS at national with Oda get injured you still doubt his place on world team.
Originally Posted by wallylutz
Not to mention how you say he is cheesy because of his nice interview attitude.
It seems that least this year, time prove that you are wrong (on the world spot at least).
Of course, not thing is certain, even as his fan I do not see him be challenge to Chan score very soon; but onething I know is he will keep improving and get better.
We shall see.
04-02-2012, 01:03 AM
How are In the Garden of Souls and Blues for Klook in any way similar? The former is intense and sharp, while the latter is bluesy and languid with a touch of sensuality.
Originally Posted by Bluebonnet
Can you give me an example of a skater who displays a wide range of wrist motions throughout different programs? Just wondering.
I admit that Daisuke does touch his face a lot (I blame Morozov, LOL), but what about all those different things he does? The moment where he leans back and grabs his knee in the short, how he follows the loop in his straightline steps in the short with a mirror loop of his head, those crouchy steps he does in and out of the triple lutz....these movements he does are stylistically and choreographically very different from ANYTHING he does in Blues for Klook. In fact, these movements have never been seen in any of his past programs either. Or just watch how Daisuke moves his body in his step sequences in his SP vs his step sequences in his LP. Even without the music you can tell they are from 2 stylistically different programs......
Last edited by evangeline; 04-02-2012 at 01:06 AM.
04-02-2012, 01:05 AM
Re Hanyu, I think he's been overhyped but he is the real deal, a rare phenom. I have been interested in him for over a year since I was first intrigued by something he said involving Patrick Chan. I wish I could read more of his interviews to confirm my impression. My feeling has been that he has a different way of learning, by feeling, instincts, absorption, and by "becoming" his idols/model to pattern after, including Plushenko, Weir, and even Chan. I knew he had the potential to acquire very quickly the best of each of these skaters of different styles and strengths. He has proven my suspicion right with his rapid acquisitions of skills and rise in the skating world. The kid simply has a different mental mode that enables him to learn extremely quickly, including competitiveness. Over this season, he kept getting better and better at each competition, and winning Worlds Bronze didn't surprise me.
I have two main concerns for him, both physical. The first is his asthma and stamina issue. But even that he seems to have overcome somehow over the season. Incredible. Second is how his physical growth will affect him, because he still has the body of a boy, with a big head much like young Patrick. Of the best quad jumpers, those to whom quads seem to come easily and naturally, he is one of the slender build type like Plushenko and Reynolds who can rotate very fast. (We also have the power type like Stojko and KVDP, and the compact technical type with power like Yagudin and Chan.) As Hanyu grows, he will likely lose some of the flexibility he has now and I don't know if he will need to adjust his jumping techniques to his new mature body. His development is very fascinating to watch.
As to Chan vs Hanyu, Chan is also a fast learning phenom albeit very differently and very consciously. Chan is quite a bit ahead in all areas of PCS and more steady in his big jumps but Hanyu is catching up in competition consistency with experience. As Chan is not static but is still improving in a very fast pace, refining the details of different aspects of skating from the basics he has mastered, it's hard to tell when Hanyu will catch up with him, especially if they both reach a high level when maturity and sophistication matter.
04-02-2012, 01:15 AM
Apart from what you mentioned, I also wish he take a ballet class and improve his line. Even I love his skating I can't help but think that skater like Gashinski (who I prefer less) has much better line and keep his body more straight than Yuzuru.
Originally Posted by SkateFiguring
If he can improve in this aspect, I will
04-02-2012, 01:20 AM
I include that in the PCS aspects he still has a lot to improve.
Originally Posted by treeloving
04-02-2012, 01:21 AM
His SP and LP rythem were different but the approach were quite similar. I hate his fingers and wrists in both programs, especially in SP. Given the type of music in LP, I think his style fit in quite well. I love that grab-knee movement in SP. But over all, I like his LP a lot more than his SP.
Originally Posted by evangeline
Every skater has their own style. If you like an example, Jeremy Abbott has wide ranged artistic abilities over any current male skaters. He has completely different wrist motions according to the programs he skated.
Last edited by Bluebonnet; 04-02-2012 at 01:24 AM.
04-02-2012, 01:42 AM
Can someone tell me if Hanyu is right or left handed? I ask because he seems to learn with the right brain.
04-02-2012, 01:52 AM
Ten years from now, I'm sure people will be watching Yuzuru's and Dai's FS performances, not Chan's uninspiring, boring performance with a "freaky mistake"(Chan's personal mark in his programs according to him).
This is the guy who performed better, with his soul, his heart, with true artistry and difficulty; He should've won a gold medal for that performance alone, a REAL champion:
All I have to say is, unfortunately, in many subjective sports, judging is corrupt/incompetent to a point that even when the favorite makes the most obvious mistakes over and over again, he/she always wins, despite how the others performs. I've been trying to post all the possible facts about this: Dai's 6 points advantage in base value, the pcs marks, opinions of many other people, but COP freaks, some fans and people who believe judges are always right always come to tell that fans, crowd, many figure skating experts, most commentators and 90 per cent of the FS world are wrong, everybody is blind, that we have to accept the victory of the boring champion who always make mistakes and wins. And we have to accept it because the judges (who are obviously overscoring him) say so, and he should get 10s for artistic components when he doesn't make mistakes (LOL). The same judges who give Plushenko 8.50 in transitions. The same judges who think Evan Lysacek is a great artist. The same judges who cheated in Salt Like City (it obviously wasn't the only case). Please.
Ps. I love how in almost every 2012 worlds FS Patrick Chan's Youtube video there are about 130 dislikes and 30 likes. Daisuke's = 230 likes, 0 dislikes. I think they are all Dai's fans. Oh wait! They are probably just dumb fans who know NOTHING about the sport and shouldn't be heard. Leave the sacred knowledge to the judges and some chan's supporters (and the gold medals, of course!).
04-02-2012, 01:59 AM
Wait....I don't entirely understand. Allow me to break down your previous post.
Originally Posted by Bluebonnet
Premise: you don't like how Daisuke uses his fingers and wrists in both his SP and LP (especially his SP)
Premise: you like Daisuke's LP more than his SP overall despite your affinity towards the grab-knee movement in the SP
Conclusion: therefore, Daisuke's SP and LP are similar, and have similar movements within them, as well as a similar approach
I don't entirely follow what you're trying to say. I don't see how your preferences regarding Daisuke's fingers and wrists necessarily means that he repeats the same movements over and over again, which was the original topic at hand.
Moreover, I was very curious to see what you meant, so I just re-watched both of Daisuke's programs specifically watching how he used his hands throughout the program (I admit, I've certainly never done it before so it was actually kind of weird, I even specifically watched HD videos of both). To me, he holds his wrists and fingers much more loosely and fluidly in Blues for Klook as opposed to In the Garden of Souls, which makes sense given the languid and bluesy nature of the former. Just watch his hands during the step sequences especially. Or during the opening choreography--in the SP, his wrists and fingers tend to be more angular, extended, mirroring the sharper music, while in Blues for Klook, his hands there are MUCH more fluid, relaxed, even slightly floppy. Also, Daisuke does that swishy rolling movement/thing with his wrists quite a few times in Blues, but not in the SP. So.....basically, I completely disagree with your statement that he uses his fingers and wrists similarly in both programs.