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Thread: Men Free Skates

  1. #1111
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    But I have to say, If Patrick starts to perform programs like his Exhibition, he will deserve every artistic mark he gets, that was simply GORGEOUS!! With the right program (Jeffrey for choreo, please!!) and LESS mistakes, he will be a real real and deserving champion (if yuzuru doesn't beat him)!!

  2. #1112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebonnet View Post
    Skating Skill is the foundation in PCS and it has been absorbed by every single category in PCS. So maybe the technical portion of CoP is not really 70%. It is over 70%.
    When Chan is skating, SS is the foundation of PCS. When Alena or another Mozorov's student is skating, SS takes a backseat. PCS is simply a black box that hides wheeling and dealing behind the scenes, and the five categories are simply five different ways to make excuses for the judges' favorites.
    If we take the position that SS is the foundation of PCS, then the ISU should adopt this method: PCS = Skating Skill × Presentation. Under the current rules, the judges should have treated the five categories as independent as prescribed by the formula: PCS = SS + TR + PE + CH + IN.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebonnet View Post
    Very likely if without those problems, his CH and IN would have been having some 10s. So yes, it has been reduced to reflect it.
    Well, these are the scores he received at 4CC with a nearly clean skate: PE 9.04, CH 9.11, IN 8.96. And these are the scores he received at the Worlds with more visible errors including a fall: PE 9.00, CH 8.96, IN 9.21. Has Chan improved significantly in his presentation since 4CC? I bet, in terms of giving more of his emotionless poker face. Poker Face = ???
    Quote Originally Posted by Spun Silver View Post
    I had this same reaction to Patrick's joke. Does he not care about skating clean?...It's a little hard to wrap my head around the idea of a great champion who is content to fall at least once in almost every comp.
    Some people however think that having quads is sportsmanship but having perfect execution is not. Execution is a quality befitting the ladies' skating. The artistry in men's figure skating is measured by the degree of redness on one's burning butts, an indicator of bravery and manliness.

    Now, this is in my opinion a perfect balance between artistry and technical difficulty: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ZKX--skJTI. Who is that skater???? I would give him an Olympic medal right now. So beautifully skated, with heart and soul!!! Did the audience give him a standing ovation? What a brilliant skater!!! If Michel Kwan is the goddess of the ladies, that skater is the god of the men.
    Last edited by skatinginbc; 04-02-2012 at 06:36 AM.

  3. #1113
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    Wow, that is breathtaking. The choreography is a brilliant use of the music, and Patrick conveys every subtlety of it. The command on those flowing moves, and the musical expressiveness. If this is what's in Patrick's future, we're in for some splendid skating.

  4. #1114
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    ^ I totally agree. That performance is worth 9s and 10s. If Patrick skated like that, no one would ever complain about undeserved marks and inflated scoring.

    Unfortunately, the CoP does not permit it.

  5. #1115
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    Skaters happen to skate late after the ice resurface in all disciplines, not only Chan did he skate in worst ice condintion because he was last in his group. Of course he wouldnt blame that for his fall, otherwise everybody who was last before the resurface should complain the same. And not just in this competition, it happens everywhere.
    Hanyu fell but he didnt win Daisuke on PCS, he had super TES to count on.

    IP I read that gkelly explained you the entrance of Chan's quad and I want to read it cause I m always wondering how he enters the quad so non - chalantly, he doesnt look like needing big setup and ultra speed. Do you have a link of her post?

  6. #1116
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebonnet View Post
    Very likely if without those problems, his CH and IN would have been having some 10s. So yes, it has been reduced to reflect it.
    Dee, look at Patrick's exhibition skate. That is what a nine or ten in interpretation and choreography looks like. Note in particular how the jumps serve the choreography. To say that Patrick's competitive program deserves a ten in musical interpretation just turns any reasonable definition of that term on its head.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dee
    Skating Skill is the foundation in PCS and it has been absorbed by every single category in PCS. So maybe the technical portion of CoP is not really 70%. It is over 70%, as we often see that P/E, CH, and IN are being bounded with TES and SS.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kunstrijdster View Post
    I have often wondered what would be the dominating PCS category if the components just had a different order and, for example, P/E was the first component.
    That was actually tested by the ISU. They had different judging panels scoring the event with PCSs in a different order, and sure enough it came out just like that. Whichever score was listed first dominated all five.

  7. #1117
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    They had different judging panels scoring the event with PCSs in a different order, and sure enough it came out just like that. Whichever score was listed first dominated all five.
    That's called "halo effect" in the psychometric literature.

  8. #1118
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leonardo View Post
    Ps. I love how in almost every 2012 worlds FS Patrick Chan's Youtube video there are about 130 dislikes and 30 likes. Daisuke's = 230 likes, 0 dislikes. I think they are all Dai's fans. Oh wait! They are probably just dumb fans who know NOTHING about the sport and shouldn't be heard. Leave the sacred knowledge to the judges and some chan's supporters (and the gold medals, of course!).
    Agreed.

  9. #1119
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leonardo View Post
    But I have to say, If Patrick starts to perform programs like his Exhibition, he will deserve every artistic mark he gets, that was simply GORGEOUS!! With the right program (Jeffrey for choreo, please!!) and LESS mistakes, he will be a real real and deserving champion (if yuzuru doesn't beat him)!!
    Yeah, only he will lose in TES. Patrick wins by the rules. Period.

  10. #1120
    Off the ice Buttercup's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    That was actually tested by the ISU. They had different judging panels scoring the event with PCSs in a different order, and sure enough it came out just like that. Whichever score was listed first dominated all five.
    They should have each judge rate the PCS in different order and switch it up for each skater. Don't tell me they can't sort out the software to allow for this.

    Actually, this is something that's often done in creativity research - the people rating the creative product are supposed to evaluate the dimensions in different order. It also help if the products aren't viewed in the same order, but that's not feasible for skating performances.

    I am very proud that this is my only post about the men's event (which I have many opinions about; but I'll keep those to myself).

  11. #1121
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    Quote Originally Posted by gracefulswan View Post
    I also hope that there's some kind of inquiry as well.... In this day and age, I thought we've overcome the time where winners were allowed to win with egregious mistakes and get by with inflated PCS? The new scoring system didn't change a darn thing about the worst aspects of figure skating.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5m7xF...qcNiEAPZF80%3D
    What conclusion do you expect from the inquiry when the judge panel almost uniformly gave Patrick the same marks? That they followed the same guidelines? Go ahead to lobby ISU to do it. Ask that Chris to joint you since he has more influence.

  12. #1122
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boeing787 View Post
    What conclusion do you expect from the inquiry when the judge panel almost uniformly gave Patrick the same marks?
    Reputation judging or what Mathman said "Corridor Judging"?

  13. #1123
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    Quote Originally Posted by skatinginbc View Post
    Reputation judging or what Mathman said "Corridor Judging"?
    Then why don't you give it a shot to see if ISU agree with you? Do something!

  14. #1124
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buttercup View Post
    I am very proud that this is my only post about the men's event (which I have many opinions about; but I'll keep those to myself).
    But I always love reading your posts.

  15. #1125
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    Quote Originally Posted by evangeline View Post
    Can you please specifically point out exactly what movement Daisuke repeats again and again? I am genuinely curious about this....
    IMO, all his transition movements are similar. I am not an expert, but gkelly did a good job analyzing both programs:
    http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/show...t=83079&page=2

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