Orser got used to Yuna's work ethic and finds Javi not disciplined enough about training too. See the common thread here with the champions -Yuna, Chan, and Takahashi? Yuka and Jason probably attracted the soft skaters because they are nurturing, but they don't have any tough one in their stable as a role model to spur the rest on. I know Lysacek and Chan have been very motivating for their training mates. And Yuna too, when she was around.
Last edited by SkateFiguring; 04-03-2012 at 09:34 PM.
So did I. He won Jr. Worlds and 4CC under Orser. Then he started to go backwards.Originally Posted by jan
I thought he left Morosov because his parents were sick of the expense of the Morosov Travelling Carnival wherein all of his skaters travelled with Morosov while he was coaching skaters at international events. I seem to recall them saying that this was not what they had signed up for. Plus as a junior just making the jump to seniors, Adam was so far down Morosov's list of priorities they felt he wasn't getting much attention.
This is interesting considering the hit Orser took when Adam left him. It followed shortly after YuNa left so gossip and internet speculation as it is had Orser the bad guy in the situation. Reading this thread reminded me of something hinted at back when he split with Orser. Some quotes from both of them are in this Hersh interview:
http://newsblogs.chicagotribune.com/...for-orser.html
I find Rippon´s skating has taken a huge step backwards and was honestly shocked to see him get off the ice at worlds and watch him hug his coaches seemingly happy with the skate he just gave.
I agree. If Evan is still in competition after Olympics alongside with Mirai,
It would be different. His work ethic and nerves of steel definitely affected Mirai before.
Chan exerts good influence on Joshua as he said.
Yuka and Jason has no role model of mental toughness under their tutelage.
Last edited by johnny 80; 04-03-2012 at 10:01 PM.
Don't forget Bradley, though he only became even more motivated about his quads. But he did become the National champion even though he had almost retired. Did Flatt also win the Nationals while training with Chan? Yuka and Jason should play good cop and bad cop since there are two of them. And get a toughie or two into their collection of talented skaters.
Last edited by SkateFiguring; 04-03-2012 at 10:13 PM.
Valentina Marchei did quite well for herself and Italy at Worlds and is mentally tough.no role model of mental toughness under their tutelage.
But, she just moved from Morozov. and I don't think she is the same class with
Alissa, Adam and Jeremy. Valentina is not a consistent skater.
They need someone to look up to, not the other way around.
Last edited by johnny 80; 04-03-2012 at 10:25 PM.
I don't believe K&C is the right time and place to get tough. Or being constantly stern and demanding is the solution. Winners are self motivating. If someone is not, a way needs to be found for it to happen but it's not always possible or up to the coach. See how determined Wagner became and the results?
Funny, that sounds just like Alissa. Is that Yuka & Jason's formula or something? (I realize it doesn't apply to Jeremy.)
ETA:
This is not how I remember the conversations here. There was a lot of respect and support for Brian. Not that there was much anti-Yu Na sentiment or anything, but she never explained her decision so there was a lot of puzzlement about her dumping him after winning the OGM. Just my recollection, FWIW.
Last edited by Spun Silver; 04-03-2012 at 10:41 PM.
Yes but that was his one bad competition of the season, he had a great JGP season, won both his events and then bronze at the final, then he was really impressive at JW, the score edged Adam on the SB list and that was with one less element, not to mention scores at junior events are usually always quite a bit lower compared to senior events (we saw this with Denis Ten, his FS at JW scored 134 and then at Worlds a few weeks later he got 153 for a program of similar quality). And really it was just his SP at nationals that was so bad, his FS wasn't great but his TES was 69+, he just got hosed on PCS from skating in the 2nd warmup, and further the marks for that program were close to what a lot of skaters in the penultimate and ultimate warmup put up WITH the benefit of late warmup PCS (Jason, Max, and Keegan scored just a point or two higher for the FS). Considering every other SP he skated this season was clean and beautiful and scored ~75, I think after his great showing at JW he should have at least been considered for the Worlds spot. You're right that Miner was the more logical choice, BUT if the USFS were interested in promoting skaters for Sochi, they should have considered sending Farris to Worlds, after that high at JW, and due to move up to the GP next season? It would have been great to see him out there.
Abbott is turning 27 and Adam is 22 and still does not have a stable 3a. Farris is 17 and has all the goods, he is probably the best hope for American men in Sochi at this point and you think the USFS would recognize that and try to promote him, but instead they focus on promoting aging headcase Abbott, triple axel-challenged Rippon, and triple axel-less Brown. And don't even get me started on Czisny... Basically, the crap the USFS judges pull at Nationals is getting ridiculous. Czisny and Rippon's marks were a joke, and Jason Brown receiving 10 more PCS points than Farris in the FS, where Brown actually made MORE errors, was proven ridiculous at JW a month later, when in both SP and FS Josh and Jason earned virtually the same PCS in both programs (marks that were much higher than what Josh received at Nationals, and lower than what Jason received there - even with his 3 fall FS), and Josh went on to beat Jason by 7 points. Erm, what's the point of holding up Jason Brown at Nationals and promoting him as the next big thing when he has no 3a and went on to get beaten by the 16th place finisher at Nationals who the USFS clearly thinks is nothing special judging from his PCS marks at Nationals at a big international event like JW? It just makes them look stupid. Josh missed out on beating phenom Han Yan for the JW title by less than half a point, and the USFS clearly thinks he's chopped liver and that Adam Rippon and Alissa Czisny are all that, and that Jason Brown without a 3a is 10 PCS points in the FS better than this kid. It's silly, and again also silly that they promote Rippon as being so much better than Miner when Miner has had better international results this whole season, and for all this crap that Adam is more "artistic" than Ross and that his PCS are so much better, look at international protocols from this season and you will see they receive VERY similar PCS scores. The USFS seems to underestimate the importance of jumps, until Rippon and Brown get solid triple axels, the international judges are going to be viewing Miner and Farris as being better, even if they DO manage to get solid triple axels, Miner and Farris might still be better in the eyes of the international judges. USFS promotion and judging is just silly tbh.
Last edited by silverlake22; 04-03-2012 at 10:56 PM.
Orser is not a Factor, That is why people are confused.
If you understand their relationships, you should know David Wilson, the choreographer, has always been the hidden center of the issue.
''Orser's students'' ,, They come to Cricket Club not because of Orser, but, David.
Orser just doesn't cut or change their choreography not like Russian coaches.
His coaching style is , as you guys know, laissez-faire.
Yuna went to Cricket club to get her choreography from David at the first time.
Yuna-David relations didn't stop, Though she changed the coach.
David still choreographs her all shows.
That explains why Yuna and Adam was lingering in the cricket,after they fired Orser. Yuna was thrown out of the club by pissed-Orser.
And Adam changed choreographer, and finally left the club.
David has been Cynthia Phaneuf's choreographer since novice. and she changed the coach lately.To Whom?
Javier, Ellen G... Who is their Choreographer?
As you know, Orser's students didn't advance technically.
Gao's 2A and Adam's 3A, etc.
Use your common sense, Who is gonna trust an unexperienced coach? Figure skating is not that easy sport.
Wilson is a shy person, so he doesn't show himself in K&C.
not like Lori or Camerlengo.
Even in Olymics, he wasn't in K&C, though the best chance to advertise.
But, he earned Trust from his students.
Under COP, The role of choreographer will become more and more important.
PJ Kwong interviwed with not Orser but Wilson for a long time right after Olympics..
Last edited by johnny 80; 04-04-2012 at 12:24 AM.
until now I still don't understand why Yuna should explain her decision to leave Brian...she doesn't owe the public to explain what supposed to be private. other skaters who leave their coaches don't even explain why. why singled her out?
as for adam, i don't think the coach is the problem.
The choreography is more important especially for world-class athletes.
I always think that Patrick Chan is one of the greatest skaters of history of figure skating..
His basic skills, deep edges, speed and jumping ability..
but , at the same time I wonder why Lori not attend to his choreography more.
and, his SP was used for two years!!!
You guys know (at this worlds) the power of choreography.
like Weaver/Poje, Daisuke Takahashi , Volosozhar Trankov, Carolina Kostner. etc.
I hope Chan'll make great masterpieces with the help of his choreographer.
He should be remembered by his masterpieces like Casablanca reminds us of Kurt Browning,Winter and MIIM,Yagudin...
Last edited by johnny 80; 04-04-2012 at 07:12 AM.
I wouldn't put V/T in the same category as W/P, Kostner or Dai! Especially not Dai
Savchenko and Svolkowy, even Kavaguti and Smirnov, they've got excellently choreographed programs... but V/T seem to me to be pretty predictable and unexciting, choreographically speaking.
Back to the topic... I think Adam Rippon needs Evan Lysacek/Patrick Chan/Dai's mental toughness and discipline more than another coaching change. (Better choreography might be nice, too, though, I wasn't thrilled by either of his programs this year).
While I do understand the argument that it might be harder for Yuka and Jason's students because they don't train with a 'workhorse' skater, I think it's also a difficult situation, because the coach/skater relationship is so important, and certain sorts of coaches attract certain sorts of skaters. When their personalities are different it doesn't seem to work, or if it does, it doesn't seem to work for very long. Just my thoughts, though
I meant more the speculation about why Adam left Orser. The only reason I brought YuNa into it was because they happened close together so there was talk about what Brian was doing wrong when he loses two in a row. I don't think anyone really cares anymore why YuNa left? Yes a lot of people were supportive but a lot of people spent much time analysing K&C behaviour and the coldness of Brian toward Adam. I'm just wondering in light of this thread and the comment I quoted whether some of the frustration and the main problem was the issue of off ice training. And that could have lead to tension between the two as I also get the impression when Brian speaks about Javier that Brian is trying to meet him halfway in this conditioning regime to steer him instead of demanding him. Perhaps this is a lesson Brian has learned from his recent experiences and now Adam needs to learn from his experiences and maybe change his own ideas.
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