At the rink. Again.
Yes, and we saw what sending a guy who did well on the junior circuit in the fall does, too, with Dornbush the previous year. He WON the JGPF (as opposed to fading in the LP and finishing 3rd) and actually handled the pressure at Nationals for a top 2 finish. Then he finished, what, 10th at Worlds? 9th? And then went on to have a crap-tacular follow-on season. Clearly Farris was NOT ready for the pressure of Senior competition if he blew his SP at Nationals, why pile on the pressure?
Originally Posted by silverlake22
Ricky was the highest placing finisher at Worlds though, he skated really well, and yes he won the JGPF, but he was 4th in one of his events before it with a score of 166...far lower than the 197 Josh got at Nationals, going to Worlds and being the top placing American there and making the top 10 was GOOD for Ricky's career. And this season he was fine during the GP, not great but not craptacular like you suggest. He bombed the SP at Nationals then bombed 4CC, but it wasn't like his whole season was a disaster.
Originally Posted by mskater93
And again, it's the principle of it all. Ricky's 9th place at Worlds was considered a GOOD finish for an up-and-comer just out of juniors. Had Abbott gone and placed 9th people would be complaining about how he underperformed. By sending Ricky, and even Ross who finished in 11th, USFSA saved themselves of "Jeremy Abbott is such a headcase" smack talk, and the trip to Worlds, despite the mediocre placement, was especially helpful for Ross who really stepped it up this season and won a bunch of medals as a result, even Ricky had a solid GP season and I'm sure the scores and placements they earned had something to do with getting to go to Worlds last season. The team last year didn't get 3 spots back, but the two young members did well and showed that they could hang with the big guys already, so that was encouraging that either could be contenders in the future. For example, Song finishing 14th with all his quads this year was a bit of a reality check - his TES is great, but he really needs to work on PCS to be competitive. But Ricky and Ross were pretty well received at Worlds and got good marks.
And anyways there was pressure on Josh at JW - I'm sure his being sent was a tough decision to make with his placement at Nationals being what it was, he could have been reasonably passed over in favor of Phillip Warren and it was likely a tough call. I'm sure he wanted to prove to everyone his Nationals was just a fluke, and sure enough he did with the way he skated at JW, he showed that when he skates up to his potential, he is better than Jason Brown and Denis Ten and on par with Han Yan. I'm sure there would have been a lot of "Philip should have been sent instead" talk had Farris not skated well at JW. I'm not saying he should have been named to Worlds after Nationals, certainly not, he was far from his best there. But after the results of 4CC, JW, and Challenge Cup were all in, it would have made sense to at least consider him, based on his JW marks, if there was a test skate to be held to determine who should go to Worlds.
Last edited by silverlake22; 04-04-2012 at 12:09 PM.
All this will be mute when Jason Brown gets his 3axel.
Considering Josh Farris based on JW would be just as ridiculous as considering Gracie Gold based on JW. Neither skater has skated a senior international program. And perhaps Josh's Nationals performance was a fluke, but since he hasn't done anything else in seniors, there's no way to determine that it's a fluke in his senior skating efforts. And the fact is fluke or not, he still was 16th at Nationals. I would consider Armin and Miner first, since they have past senior international efforts under their belt.
Originally Posted by silverlake22
Richard Dornbush earned his spot in Worlds last year by winning the free skate and getting the silver medal.
Given Josh's progress, I'm confident he will get a Worlds spot someday, probably even next season, but 2012 Worlds wasn't his time.
Last edited by Mrs. P; 04-04-2012 at 12:22 PM.
At the rink. Again.
Thanks, Mrs. P - that was the point I was trying to make. Let's let the skaters mature at their proper rate and not force them into something they aren't ready for. Farris' rate this year was at the Junior International level as was Gold's.
No one really makes that big a deal about who gets Junior events if at least one person medals. If Farris had been lower and Brown still on the podium, no one would have blinked.
My point about Dornbush - did he really fare all that well on the GP circuit? Medal? Make the final? You'd think someone who was top 10 in the world the previous year would at least squeak out a bronze at one or both their events. 4th in a "meh" group at SA isn't all that great. He seemed to be feeling some pressure of being the "leading man" since Bradley retired as he was the silver medalist. He fared very poorly at Nationals and again at 4C after having a "meh" fall. I thought last season Dornbush should have finished his season at JWs and Abbott sent to Worlds in his place.
FWIW, I thought Miner made a strong case for the second spot at Nationals this year.
Last edited by mskater93; 04-04-2012 at 01:06 PM.
I wouldn't hold my breath on that one. Watching Jason, I don't think his 2A is big enough or strong enough for him to turn it into a triple. I hope I'm wrong, but that 2A is what keeps me from jumping on the Jason Brown bandwagon. I open to buying a ticket if and when he starts landing a reliable 3A but not before.
Originally Posted by Jammers
Wicked Yankee Girl
Like Ross Miner, he may require significant work in the gym to get a consistent, big 3A. Ross's was a bit iffy when he made his senior debut on the GP-between the GP and last year's nationals he really hit the gym, and the results speak for themselves. He now has a really good 3A.
That's why Rippon needs to do the work in the gym.
It may take Jason another year. Or he may never get there But I hope it's this year!
At the rink. Again.
His 2A has improve a great deal over the last 12-18 months and I think he will be helped by starting to fill out and get stronger. He's definitely a hard worker, even off ice, as evidenced by the fact he won the STARS award last year for off ice training.
Originally Posted by Dragonlady
That's a big if and I still think Josh might be better even if Jason does get a 3a. Realistically he'll need a 3a and a quad to be competitive anyways, and who knows how long that could take. Josh has had a 3a for years and been doing quads in training for over a year now. And I think his skating is more universally appealing, if that makes sense. His style is more classical and I think just about anyone can appreciate his posture and lines and natural jumping style, whereas Jason's style seems to wow some and leave others unimpressed. Plus, Josh's skating is more masculine, and already he has built up quite the female fanbase due to his looks and skating accomplishments, and as much as I hate to say that makes a difference in skating...it really does. I don't think Joubert or Lysacek would have done so well in their skating careers if they weren't so handsome. Jason is more like a Johnny Weir and Johnny despite being an exquisite skater with a unique style did not have as impressive a career resume as some of the other skaters whose skating could be considered more "boring". I think both boys are very talented and each has his own unique strength, but I think for now, Joshua is ahead of Jason, and I think it will stay that way for a couple more seasons likely, unless Jason comes out with a 3a and 4t very soon and/or Joshua regresses.
Originally Posted by Jammers
Also Jason looks like he works out in the gym a lot. He is quite muscular. I wonder if the 3a struggles are something more due to his body build. He seems to have more mass in his lower body and be narrower through the shoulders. Usually, the best jumpers have broad shoulders. Maybe it's just a matter of puberty but Jason doesn't look painfully thin to me in the way that Adam Rippon does.
Last edited by silverlake22; 04-04-2012 at 04:37 PM.
I've seen Adam Rippon in person, he is not as painfully thin as he appears on TV and videos. His arms are quite muscular, but he is quite slim.
At the rink. Again.
Jason is a skater best appreciated in person. Without seeing him in person, you don't "feel" his magnetism. Once you've seen him in person, you KNOW what he's projecting and can appreciate him more. His style is not all that feminine, really, it's more flowing and elegant.
Jason's moves and choreography are interesting and sometimes innovative and he has nice flow, but I don't find him elegant at all, something to do with his not only pivoting at his hips but his butt sticking out more than others with similar postures. With his slender build he might join the group of quadsters like Plushenko, Reynolds, and Brezina but is still struggling with his 3A due to lack of power.
silverlake is right that Jason is far from universally appealing, as some foreign forums clearly indicate.
I think Alex is the best coach in the state of IL. Yes he is a little nuts. If he sees you working hard the he will work with you & you will get the jumps.I think Alex is better than the so called great coaches.
Thanks . Yeah, I just don't really understand all the Jason hype. Well, I mean, in a sense I do, he is very talented and certainly has an interesting style and is a great performer, but with no 3a at 17, I'm surprised so many people are convinced he is the next big thing. I mean, I think he could become the next big thing when/if he gets the 3a and a quad, but we don't know when/if that will happen so right now, I'm a little puzzled that Jason Brown is the talk of the boards. I honestly think Denis Ten should have beaten him at Junior Worlds (please don't hate me for saying that, but D10 did have a LOT more content and it wasn't like he made that many mistakes...). I think I'd have more respect for Jason if he'd just start trying the 3a, even if he splats all over the place on it. Got to start somewhere. Meanwhile I think Farris has great prospects for the future and is clearly ahead of Jason at this point, but I seem to be in the minority, as most seem to think of Josh as an afterthought to Jason. With the state of men's figure skating as it is, I think Josh could feasibly make the World team as early as next season, to me he is already on par with the likes of Miner, Dornbush when they are "on" and superior to Rippon, Mahbanoozadeh due to the strength of his 3a. And if he continues to improve at such a rate, he could give Abbott a real fright if Abbott still can't get his head together. Idk. There is a big window of opportunity right now with Jeremy getting older and still being a headcase, and no one else really proving themselves as the solid number 2 (or number 1) male skater in the US. There's a lot of room for youngsters to walk through and make a statement, my money is on Josh or Max Aaron, but it could be Jason if he can up his tech, or maybe even Keegan if he can stop bombing his FS. Ricky is talented and had success with the 4t this season, but he needs to refind the consistency he had last season if he wants to secure that spot, Ross is a good competitor but I think moving forward a lot will depend on how his quads are coming along. Adam I think is done unless he can have an overhaul on his technique, which maybe there is still time for.
Originally Posted by SkateFiguring
Last edited by silverlake22; 04-08-2012 at 11:13 PM.
I think the long hesitation before Rippon´s triple axel is scary, and I start feeling scary as I see that the guy seems to be afraid of the jump. Triple axel should be jumped the way Ilia Kulik did during his eligible career (it should be effortless = without long hesitation):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8JaYkoTMeZU Ilia Kulik 17 years old (Europeans 1995)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D9KjmsDW4BA Worlds (Worlds 1996) where Ilia had the start number 2 and still won the sp competition.
My favourite Ilia Kulik freeskate (from 1996 Centennial on Ice):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ojGVgMLOSzw where he jumps a triple axel late in the programme. Adam Rippon, look at these performances and learn!!!
Last edited by Jaana; 04-09-2012 at 02:40 AM.