Yes.Originally Posted by Boeing787
Yes.
I'm not saying that Patrick's new ex number could become a SP. I don't think it can get enough TR. Besides, if the powerful 4-3 jump added into such lyrical skating, it seems out of place. As of IN, what more one could possibly want out of such a piece?! It's so perfect on every note associated with movement!
As of Take Five and Phantom, I remember Pogue said before that it's customary that SP PCS is lower than LP PCS generally for everyone. Don't know the reason.
Last edited by Bluebonnet; 04-09-2012 at 03:15 PM.
And there you would be wrong because Dai is my favourite skater. The difference between you and I is that I can give credit to great skating even when it's NOT my favourite skater and I don't feel the need to trash the skater I don't like.
Chan's exhibition is what a program should look like to deserve a ten. If it is not possible to get a ten in interpretation while doing quads and triple Axels, then so be it. No 10.
You have to score by what the skater did, not what he might have done if he had left out the quads.
Great minds think alike!I don't think it will make a great sp either for the same reason. The choreography is beautiful simply because it doesn't have to comply with COP.
Do you agree with my reasoning on SP's lower PCS?
Last edited by Boeing787; 04-09-2012 at 03:22 PM.
Personally I still believe Dai's PCS should have been higher, especially P/E, CH and IN as others say. Pasquale re-choreographed his LP and DID add transitions into jumps/spins and/or inbetweens, even TR should have been slightly higher.
But I also agree, his performance at Nice, he looked more focused on technical sides. I loved his LP at GPF the best in performance-wise.
Utako sensei, his long-time coach admitted after the competiton as follows:
(Sources: in the Column written by Mie Noguchi, Sports Navi, Apr 6)
"This season Dai's first priority was getting back quads, so that he concentrated more on jumps and other technical sides, than performance/execution of the program. For someone like myself who has been closely watching him practice all these years, he is capable of doing much more than what we saw here in performance-wise. Dai's strength is his natural ability to skate with the music as if every notes of music come from inside of his body. It's not a thing that can be taught by a coach or anyone. To skate as if he himself becomes the music is his natural born talent. Since his quads have gotten stable finally, we can focus on this 'performance' side again. I will help him to get his peak in two years and strengthen his performance ability to draw audience in as best as ever, like no one else can."
Last edited by deedee1; 04-09-2012 at 08:45 PM.
Really? I thought it was long before that. Compare his circular footwork sequence in the following competitions:
4CC FS: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FUASKHASs_8#t=1m050s
GPF FS: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cc97Q...lated#t=2m002s
GP Skate Canada FS: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YYbdW...lated#t=1m030s
World Championships FS: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7dBI6kQ4riM#t=1m057s
His World LP was approximately one second behind the rest (i.e., 4CC, GPF, SC). It becomes clearer if we use some reference moves/notes. For instance, the move that he fell in TEB (both arms up, body leaning backward—Let’s call it “#up”) and the move that soon followed (kneeling down, right arm straight up—Let’s call it “#down”). As in SC, GPF and 4CC, the move #up went with the guitar note D and the move #down with the note C# that had a turn-like ornament. Because he was behind the music in the Worlds, Chan did the move #up with the guitar note C# and the move #down on an UNACCENTED beat (the last beat of a bar) where the guitar was in the middle of a pause and the orchestra was playing a transition.
It was hardly noticeable and it did not bother you? If so, it tells us that his circular footwork was designed as such that each move was not meant for a specific note and that note only. That’s called “highlighting every note” (or in fact “No note actually highlighted”). Think about it: It is safe and easy to simply tap on every beat, so one doesn’t even have to worry about upbeat and downbeat, or one beat late or early. Dai’s circular footwork, in contrast, could not get a beat wrong due to those small details that reflected synchopation and melody. A beat early or a beat late ==> doomed. Whose is more challenging in terms of musicality?
Last edited by skatinginbc; 04-09-2012 at 10:58 PM.
First of all, I am truly amazed at your ability on spliting hair and picking bones from an egg!
Second, your "never give-up" spirit prompted me to try your method. I got the conclusion that the above quote from you best suited for Takahashi this year's LP.It's not because I want to say the opposit. It's because I have the proof.
Go to pick any his LP performances from SC, NHK, GPF, or 4CC, compare it with his 2012 Worlds LP. You could see that there were no exactly same programs. sometimes they were unisonant like a pair's skating, often they are a second or two apart. Sometimes his camel spin spinned more rotations than the other. Even some of his jumps have been placed in the different places with one, two, or even three seconds difference from competition to competition. His arms with the same movements highlighted different notes in different performances. In the end, he was able to squeeze the movements or simply skip the movements to end it almost always on time. His program has a lot of flexibility and freedom for him to move around and same movements repeated again and again. The astounding discovery was that I've found that Takahashi has lost much of the essence of this music in his World version of LP, for which I believe he has kept the best in his NHK, GPF, and 4CC versions.
Last edited by Bluebonnet; 04-10-2012 at 09:22 AM.
A joke. What he does on ice comes nowhere near to expressing the lifetime of soul in the music. He is a sheltered kid who has never had to endure any real tragedy in life. He is extraordinarily gifted in many ways but this is the least of them.
He is not disfigured but still got some 10's skating to Phantom! After watching his Elegy, you still think he cannot express the soul of the music? You are blind! Hatred is blind too!
Last edited by Boeing787; 04-10-2012 at 12:43 AM.
Okay now, let's pull back a bit, shall we? We all have our own hardships in life. As for Chan, I believe one of his early coaches, one who he worked with for a very long time and was very close, died several years ago. So that's something.
As much as we all love this sport and want it's integrity to be upheld, we shouldn't let things that ultimately don't matter that much allow us to forget that we're all just people. I'm sorry if this sounds preachy, or even wet-blankety, but that was a little harsh.
Haters, Patrick Chan is the ISU 2012 Men's Figure Skating World Champion, you cannot change the fact, so live with it.
It's best not to speak about the Phantom program and the scores he got for it at all.
It was a lovely performance, considerably better choreography than seen in his competitive programs, but still not exactly what I would call profound.
Just remember only the judges' opinion counts. Good night.
Patrick was coached by the legendary Osborne Colson (who also coached Barbara Ann Scott and Donald Jackson) from the beginning of Chan's career until Colson's death. They were very close. According to the Toronto Star, the whole Chan family was by Colson's bedside when he died from injuries from a car accident. So Chan watched a loved one die, which is more than I can say for myself, so far. So it's simply not true to say Chan hasn't gone through tragedy in his life.
Elegy is a brilliantly choreographed program which Chan skated absolutely perfectly at the Worlds gala. He hit every single musical nuance in that flowing piano piece like it was second nature, which is not easy to do with a variable tempo and without other rhythmic cues. But still, I wasn't really feeling it, mostly 'cause I don't really care for that piece of music. I vastly prefer Chan's Mannish Boy gala number, which had all kinds of unusual movements and shapes not seen in Chan or any other skater's programs, and all the intricacies, of course, that Patrick handles with aplomb. Plus, skating to actual OG blues rock? Much more interesting and original than skating to Rach.
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