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Thread: What We Talk About When We Talk About Pairs (Y/T/T)

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by sky_fly20 View Post
    good throwers but bad lifts, their lifts are one of the ugliest positions I have ever seen, its like Stolbova is too heavy for him when he's holding her up, lol
    and they don't have a triple twist. they will have to fight for a spot with B/L and K/S for the Olympics, I know some will say K/S are getting old but they still have a shot to medal more than S/K for the Olympics
    Yeah, I think S/K are not in the running for Sochi unless something changes dramatically. K/S & V/T's spots are secure barring injury. B/L have a major issue with their side by side jumps (though at least, thank goodness, they are mostly landing them in unison now) but their lifts are gorgeous, their height on the triple twist is sometimes the best of the top teams, and she rarely goes down on throws. S/K struggle with lifts, have no triple twist, and sometimes also struggle with landing the SBS jumps. It is possible that someone will overtake B/L before Sochi (though IMO unlikely) but barring a miracle it won't be S/K.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sky_fly20 View Post
    good throwers but bad lifts, their lifts are one of the ugliest positions I have ever seen, its like Stolbova is too heavy for him when he's holding her up, lol
    and they don't have a triple twist. they will have to fight for a spot with B/L and K/S for the Olympics, I know some will say K/S are getting old but they still have a shot to medal more than S/K for the Olympics
    True. But there're some aspects that really make them stand out for me among the crop of the new pairs. They have "it" factor, IMO I've seen them live and they screwed up a bit but were still very interesting to watch. They have that power and energy that, for instanse, B/L lack.
    I believe Ksenia was indeed a bit too heavy for lift this automn but that's beacuse Ksenia'd been sick and probably gained a bit or was not strong enough to help her partner. By the Euros they've improved slightly. The lack of 3twist is a problem but I have no doubt that they'll have it, may be even by the next season.
    I think B/L if nothing drastic happens will keep thir spot in the National team but K/S - they were given lots of opportunaties but didn't get (subjectavely) much so I can see the Federation dropping them in favor of a younger and all-around Russian team.

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    Spiral Lover tulosai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redstone View Post
    True. But there're some aspects that really make them stand out for me among the crop of the new pairs. They have "it" factor, IMO I've seen them live and they screwed up a bit but were still very interesting to watch. They have that power and energy that, for instanse, B/L lack.
    I believe Ksenia was indeed a bit too heavy for lift this automn but that's beacuse Ksenia'd been sick and probably gained a bit or was not strong enough to help her partner. By the Euros they've improved slightly. The lack of 3twist is a problem but I have no doubt that they'll have it, may be even by the next season.
    I think B/L if nothing drastic happens will keep thir spot in the National team but K/S - they were given lots of opportunaties but didn't get (subjectavely) much so I can see the Federation dropping them in favor of a younger and all-around Russian team.
    Hmmm that is interesting. It never occurred to me that K/S might be the ones dropped but actually depending on how the coming season goes for them I guess it might be possible. Good food for thought.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Redstone View Post
    True. But there're some aspects that really make them stand out for me among the crop of the new pairs. They have "it" factor, IMO I've seen them live and they screwed up a bit but were still very interesting to watch. They have that power and energy that, for instanse, B/L lack.
    I believe Ksenia was indeed a bit too heavy for lift this automn but that's beacuse Ksenia'd been sick and probably gained a bit or was not strong enough to help her partner. By the Euros they've improved slightly. The lack of 3twist is a problem but I have no doubt that they'll have it, may be even by the next season.
    I think B/L if nothing drastic happens will keep thir spot in the National team but K/S - they were given lots of opportunaties but didn't get (subjectavely) much so I can see the Federation dropping them in favor of a younger and all-around Russian team.
    the same K/S are getting nowhere and old
    K/S have improved so much artistically and their throws have been more stable now, so I doubt they will be replaced
    who will replace them ? M/R still needs more competitions that their Nationals podium was not a fluke, S/K the height of their twists doubt they can get a triple twist
    and for D/D , the rus fed might be hesitant to send a new pairs team that will only have a few more seniors seasons before the Olympics.

    K/S have a sure spot for 2014 barring horrible injury again

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    I don't think Sui & Han will be the future of Chinese Pairs. One of these days, she's going to grow and he's the smallest pairs guy I've ever seen, about the same height as Tatiana Voloszar. I'm much more impressed with the other young Chinese team, Yu & Jin. They have much better basics and positions. They don't have the huge tricks and they're quite juniorish at this point, but they have a strong foundation to build on and they're only 16 and 17 so there's lots of time for them to develop.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Buttercup View Post
    My guess is that they won't try to top it; Ingo Steuer knows what he's doing, and will give them something as different as possible - to avoid comparisons and to keep Aliona, Robin, the judges and the fans interested. I also expect at least one "softer" program; they haven't had one since the Olympic season.

    Robin, BTW, was the oldest skater at Worlds - so yes, you can have a prolonged career and succeed well into your thirties.
    Cool. I agree - I actually expect a softer program next season playing up a romantic connection. But Pina was so interesting, so full of different movement that I can't help wanting them to pursue more in that direction.

    I wouldn't lump Canada and the US into one category. the US last had a pairs team on the podium in 2002 (?) compared with 2008 for Canada, and I think you could make an argument that D/D should have been higher that year. Canadian pairs consistently perform better on the GP and finish higher at Worlds. D/C are just painful to watch and Y/R are too much of an unknown. Maybe Donlan/Speroff will save US pairs, but it won't be in this Olympic cycle.
    Trueish. Resurgence was the wrong word, but I do view the current crop as Canadian pairs as mostly skilled journeyman.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonlady View Post
    I don't think Sui & Han will be the future of Chinese Pairs. One of these days, she's going to grow and he's the smallest pairs guy I've ever seen, about the same height as Tatiana Voloszar. I'm much more impressed with the other young Chinese team, Yu & Jin. They have much better basics and positions. They don't have the huge tricks and they're quite juniorish at this point, but they have a strong foundation to build on and they're only 16 and 17 so there's lots of time for them to develop.
    I agree. Sui & Han are awful and will prove to be a flash in the pan. Takahashi & Tran have already passed them, and they were easily beating them in juniors. Yu & Jin will pass them by as early as next season IMO.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tulosai View Post
    Yeah, I think S/K are not in the running for Sochi unless something changes dramatically. K/S & V/T's spots are secure barring injury. B/L have a major issue with their side by side jumps (though at least, thank goodness, they are mostly landing them in unison now) but their lifts are gorgeous, their height on the triple twist is sometimes the best of the top teams, and she rarely goes down on throws. S/K struggle with lifts, have no triple twist, and sometimes also struggle with landing the SBS jumps. It is possible that someone will overtake B/L before Sochi (though IMO unlikely) but barring a miracle it won't be S/K.
    I think K/S are more likely to be dumped by Sochi then B/L.

  9. #24
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    What does Y/T/T mean in the title of this thread?

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    Quote Originally Posted by pangtongfan View Post
    I agree. Sui & Han are awful and will prove to be a flash in the pan. Takahashi & Tran have already passed them, and they were easily beating them in juniors. Yu & Jin will pass them by as early as next season IMO.
    T/T won bronze with the many mistakes of the top pairs, I wouldn't say they have surpassed S/H, Narumi still needs to be consistent with their throws and SBS jumps, S/H have terrible skating skills but they still have their quad arsenals to overmark their PCS, though maybe the judges could be toning it down with their marks
    as S/H have begin to struggle, if Sui grows a few more inches, their quads will be no more and nothing else to make up for that .Han will need to look for another tiny partner given he is a small male pairs skater.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonlady View Post
    I don't think Sui & Han will be the future of Chinese Pairs. One of these days, she's going to grow and he's the smallest pairs guy I've ever seen, about the same height as Tatiana Voloszar. I'm much more impressed with the other young Chinese team, Yu & Jin. They have much better basics and positions. They don't have the huge tricks and they're quite juniorish at this point, but they have a strong foundation to build on and they're only 16 and 17 so there's lots of time for them to develop.
    I agree with this. I think Yu/Jin will eventually pass Sui/Han. They have better basic skills and also, I believe, a bigger size difference. I don't think Sui/Han can keep up the big tricks once Sui attains her full growth. There's not much size difference between them now and when she gets bigger, the partnership may well be over. I mean, he is SHORT, definitely among the shortest pairs guys ever, as you said.

    I also agree with your comments about the shortcomings in Sui/Han's basic skating. Honestly I do not understand the relatively high PCS they've gotten; to me it's a failure of the judging system. I don't care how exciting the quads are; nothing else in their programs measures up to the tricks. And I'm very bothered by the up-and-down pumping motion of their shoulders during basic stroking, especially on Sui's part. It's just distracting and not good technique. How spectators can see this, while the judges appear not to notice, is beyond me. My sensation, watching Sui/Han, is of a pair bouncing around the rink, going up and down, up and down, as they pump through strokes and in and out of elements. Yes, they're good performers, but the praise heaped on them has been way overboard. Same with Denney/Coughlin, another team with good technical skills but really not much else in their arsenal (at this point anyway).

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    Quote Originally Posted by eyria View Post
    I also agree with your comments about the shortcomings in Sui/Han's basic skating. Honestly I do not understand the relatively high PCS they've gotten; to me it's a failure of the judging system. I don't care how exciting the quads are; nothing else in their programs measures up to the tricks. And I'm very bothered by the up-and-down pumping motion of their shoulders during basic stroking, especially on Sui's part. It's just distracting and not good technique. How spectators can see this, while the judges appear not to notice, is beyond me. My sensation, watching Sui/Han, is of a pair bouncing around the rink, going up and down, up and down, as they pump through strokes and in and out of elements. Yes, they're good performers, but the praise heaped on them has been way overboard. Same with Denney/Coughlin, another team with good technical skills but really not much else in their arsenal (at this point anyway).
    There’s certainly justification for high scores for performance and interpretation, but skating skills, transitions, and choreography, not so much. The whole “two skating as one” aspect of Pairs skating is supposed to be a huge thing and was one of the main arguments in favour of placing Elena & Anton over David & Jamie in SLC. It gets special mention in the judging rules as part of the PCS criteria and yet this team gets 8’s(?????) for skating skills when they land the quads, even when the split quad twist ends with her slung over his shoulder like a sack of potatoes. It makes no sense.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sky_fly20 View Post
    T/T won bronze with the many mistakes of the top pairs, I wouldn't say they have surpassed S/H, Narumi still needs to be consistent with their throws and SBS jumps, S/H have terrible skating skills but they still have their quad arsenals to overmark their PCS, though maybe the judges could be toning it down with their marks
    as S/H have begin to struggle, if Sui grows a few more inches, their quads will be no more and nothing else to make up for that .Han will need to look for another tiny partner given he is a small male pairs skater.
    T/T also made a lot of mistakes in both phases of the competition. Their throws got negative GOE all over. Their jumps got -GOE, downgraded, etc...
    D/D were the only pair that got bronze for clean programs with many mistakes of the top pairs.
    Z/Z were the only pair that got rock for clean programs with many mistakes of the top pairs.

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    Dube & Davison had easier elements, skated slower and "smaller" than the the two teams who finished above them. Bronze was the right placement for them at that event.

    Who are Z/Z?

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    What does Y/T/T mean in the title of this thread?
    I'm not sure but I think it means Yesterday/Today/Tomorrow?

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