Here is the season best list for the women
http://www.isuresults.com/isujsstat/...12/sbtslto.htm
For the men, I don't think neither Evan nor Johnny can get two, only host pick, neither are ranked in the top 24 of season best or world rankings. Evan could have used his status as a comeback skater for 2 guaranteed spots but used it up last year.
Last edited by DobrinFan; 04-12-2012 at 04:54 PM.
IMHO, they must do so if they wish to remain relevant. Right now, the US is mediocre in singles/pairs and is only doing well in ice dance.It does seem like the USFSA is in a period of re-evaluating its long-held views on world team selections.
At least in the men, you've got Weir and Lysacek possibly looking to save the day. But in the ladies, the current crop is on its own. The top 2/3 is not clear cut from the rest of the field like it used to be. There needs to be more latitude in selecting the team than just picking 1 and 2. Otherwise, you'll just get the same results until another Kwan-like skater(s) comes along- and we all know that's not happening for at least another 20-30 years (statistically speaking, sort of). Things have changed with this new scoring system. USFS, I believe, is now finding out the hard way that Nationals really isn't the be-all end-all of US skating, and shouldn't be. I think our world-class skaters are peaking at the wrong time- since USFS essentially sets up nationals as world team trials, you have skaters bringing their best there so they can GET on the team, but they can't repeat the same level of excellence once they're ON the team. If you guarantee only the champion a spot on the world/Olympic team and pick spots 2 and/or 3 based on overall performance that season, it will take some pressure off, I think and may encourage the contenders to aim to peak at worlds instead.
Oh. Yeah. That, too.Originally Posted by DobrinFan
fixed
Together with the thing about what sweathearts the folks at the USFSA are for being so nice to Rachael.
I just don't buy this. Yes, I think the criteria should change to include more competitive results but to say that skaters can't skate well at Worlds because they did so at Nationals is just a lame excuse for those skaters who just can't handle the competitive pressure. These are elite athletes who are asked to skate great at 2 events: Nationals and Worlds (or Olympics if that applies).
As far as "taking the pressure off"... why? We need skaters who can handle the pressure at Worlds. This competition helps us earn important spots for upcoming events. Whether you decide assignments at one event, or two events, or three events, I don't think it necessarily relieves pressure because now they have to have their programs in tip top condition early in the season. Maybe no one wants to do Skate America because it's too early and this is now a deciding event to determine if they make the World team.
To me, the solution is to take a holistic approach and just put the decision in the hands of the USFSA to determine what skaters are going to advance the goals of the organization. Yes, some of us will disagree with the decisions (ex: Armin not making 4CC) but at least they don't try to disguise it as some completely merit-based process, which it never will be.
Point well taken, and I agree about needing to handle the pressure at worlds. However, I would also argue that we need consistent skaters as well. Looking at ONLY National results does not promote consistent skaters- just the ones who happened to lay it down one night. Sure, they rose to the occasion HERE but there's no real indication they can do it again (i.e. was it a fluke?). Of course, in the case there is no past evidence, you could use discretion, or try a skateoff session e.g. at 4CC.I just don't buy this. Yes, I think the criteria should change to include more competitive results but to say that skaters can't skate well at Worlds because they did so at Nationals is just a lame excuse for those skaters who just can't handle the competitive pressure. These are elite athletes who are asked to skate great at 2 events: Nationals and Worlds (or Olympics if that applies).
As far as "taking the pressure off"... why? We need skaters who can handle the pressure at Worlds...
It's the BIG PICTURE that counts here. And of course, you tier it in order of importance. A Nationals skate, or a GPF qualification/skate of course would hold more weight than a SA skate, but this allows one to see the trajectory of the skater (are they getting better? worse?).Whether you decide assignments at one event, or two events, or three events, I don't think it necessarily relieves pressure because now they have to have their programs in tip top condition early in the season. Maybe no one wants to do Skate America because it's too early and this is now a deciding event to determine if they make the World team.
^ R.D., in your vision who is it that is doing all this evaluating and who decides, "you are on an upward curve because you did better at Nationals than at NHK," "you did OK at Nationals but now you must do four continents to see if you can handle the pressure," and in the end "you go to Worlds, you stay home?" A committee of Patricia St. Peter, Doug Williams, and Marc Ladwig?" (Fine people, one and all.)
Skaters work all their young lives for the privilege of representing their country at the World Championships. To me there just has to be a well-fefined criterion, written down, openly published, and acknowledged by everyone. To say, "The committee took 'all factors' into account and you stay home because we say so" -- I just don't think that is any way to run an organization that represents thousands of athletes and dozens of local figure skating clubs.
^ But that's more or less how it's done in gymnastics. AFAIK the Karolyis are basically in charge of the entire world/Oly team selection process. And look how strong we are in that sport... (this is not to imply that this is the system we need in figureskating, but it's a point to make nonetheless)
As for who the selection committee should contain, I didn't have anyone particular in mind. But clearly it should be composed of people acting in the best interest of Team USA, short and long-term.
Mathman, I think that the committee should be given wide latitude to make decisions. In addition to "fairness" to the athletes, the reality is that the sport in this country needs marketable stars. I think that's why they have supported Alissa so much, because when she puts it all together she is a skater that can really be the face of skating in this country. Certainly she hasn't achieved her potential, but not at the cost of someone else who could have really amazing results; we just don't have depth in ladies. I'd be more ok with them having placed Alissa 3rd or 4th at Nationals but putting her on the team based on her strong international results rather than having to inflate her scores to achieve the necessary placement to get her on the world team.
RD, I agree that the big picture should be evaluated as well. It just seems like it will be hard to implement a formula to weigh international results because it looks like everyone other than Ashley next year will have just 1 international result for the season.
Y'all are selling your souls for a few ounces of gold.
In that scenario, I would have sent her to 4CC for a skate-off against Zawadzki and/or Zhang; higher finisher gets the spot. That's probably the fairest thing to do.I'd be more ok with them having placed Alissa 3rd or 4th at Nationals but putting her on the team based on her strong international results rather than having to inflate her scores to achieve the necessary placement to get her on the world team.
Last edited by R.D.; 04-12-2012 at 09:13 PM.
30 pieces of silver?Y'all are selling your souls for a few ounces of gold.
Actually, KWAN was the skater who benefited the next year, not Bobek. Bobek won 1995 nationals, and Kwan was second. Had Kwan not finished in the top ten at 1994 worlds, she would not have made the 1995 world team; Bobek as national champion would have been the sole entrant.
Bobek had such an amazing SP and beginning of her Worlds LP, it's a pity she couldn't hang on. Even though Lu skated great, I think if Bobek had hit all her jumps that even the turn-out of the 3Z-3T wouldn't have cost her the title. Her LP outfit was one of my all time favorites.
Says something about US skating now that our National champion sometimes can barely finish in the top ten but Michelle at 13 finished 8th even with all that pressure to keep two spots.
Michelle also admitted that she loved the pressure and the nervousness she felt before competing. For the most part, she was able to turn the nerves into great performances...except for four nights in her career =(
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