True. Being unusually talented often means things come easier to you and therefore, less work is required on your part to get far. Also, there's less of a tendency to "learn by the book" and more of one to do things "your way", that is, the way it comes naturally to you (even if it's not the proper "technique"). Again, I've sort of been there, so I know what it feels like.
For one, I think whether AC continues her amateur career next year is UP TO HER. She need to decide for herself, not based on what a bunch of armchair internet posters think.
Second, AC is the best figure skater America has had since Sasha Cohen. This discussion board is full of fair weather friends who anoint a new queen based on one short program (think: the talk about Zawadzki immediately after, even DURING, her SP at nationals; folks ready to send her to Worlds after one, admittedly awesome, jumping pass).
I wish I knew (I wish we all knew) what the issue at Worlds and the Challenge Cup was. I think it was more than nerves, and more than AC's alleged fear of competition. She's dealt with those issue before; no reason those would have caused such an issue. Seems like there must have been more to it.
Whatever it is, I remain her loyal fan. I can't wait to see her next year. Her triple lutz/triple toe (!!) was really close this year (look at the Skate America LP again) and I think she can get it next year.
And I am eager to see these boards next year when Ashley Wagner and poor Gracie Gold (with the insane expectations already upon her) "disappoint" us, one of the two of them almost inevitably.
Last edited by Pepe Nero; 04-15-2012 at 02:28 AM.
I thought for a moment you liked AC when I saw the "AC consolation thread," but I did notice the odd way you sexually objectified her in that post as well. I think it is a mistake if you honestly considered yourself her fan.
I think you can be a fan and express profound disappointment. It may very well be true she just isn't tough enough for elite competition and the pressure that comes with being a favorite. Her Worlds programs were among the all time worst for someone with that amount of talent. It's perfectly acceptable to question whether she should have gone (I think she should have, if only because no one else was more qualified as our second skater) or whether she should continue (I think she should if she wants to).
Well, it certainly isn't showing in the results. Cohen has been to the Olympics 2x (1 medal), 2 world silvers and a world bronze. AFAIK after 2003 she always finished on the podium somewhere. Show me Czisny's World or Olympic medal and then perhaps we can talk. (oops, can't!)Second, AC is the best figure skater America has had since Sasha Cohen.
IMO this title might go to Meissner but of course she's done too.
Nothing is a done deal which is why I dislike all this early hyping of Gold. It's only setting her up for spectacular disappointment the MOMENT she has an off-night. I already said this earlier but I'm just not seeing how she'll make the type of impact say, Yuna Kim or Mao Asada did when they came out, winning world medals right out of the gate. Of course, it COULD happen, but you know, there's no guarantee she'll even be on next year's world team with Wagner and possibly Zhang/Nagasu in the hunt.And I am eager to see these boards next year when Ashley Wagner and poor Gracie Gold (with the insane expectations already upon her) "disappoint" us, one of the two of them almost inevitably.
Absolutely. Whether Czisny fans like it or not, her performance here was historic- I mean, it will be remembered as one of the biggest meltdowns in history. Especially considering that a solid short would have put her in medal contention!It may very well be true [Czisny] just isn't tough enough for elite competition and the pressure that comes with being a favorite. Her Worlds programs were among the all time worst for someone with that amount of talent. It's perfectly acceptable to question whether she should have gone
I agree 100%. Something else had to be going on for AC to have had such a bad skate. I don't know what the issue was, but someone with that much talent and experience could not have had so many falls without some other issue. My guess is an injury because her coaches didn't seem shocked at her performance. I wonder if she had to skate to keep the 2nd spot for next year and couldn't withdraw. Maybe soon we will get the details.I wish I knew (I wish we all knew) what the issue at Worlds and the Challenge Cup was. I think it was more than nerves, and more than AC's alleged fear of competition. She's dealt with those issue before; no reason those would have caused such an issue. Seems like there must have been more to it.
I agree. The meltdown was so complete that it seems to have another underlying reason. Normally I don't like to pry into things, but because Alissa was representing the U.S. at Worlds, and her skating was to have an effect, one way or the other, on the composition of the U.S. world team for 2013, I think we're entitled at least to speculate on the possibilities.
With the depth in US ladies we could really use a 3rd spot. Even Russia was able to squeeze out 3 spots with so-called has-beens Makarova and Leonova. With that in mind, I think it is definitely fair game to question USFS' world team selection policy and seriously ask if they should make changes to it for the future.
AC (alternating current?) is the first two-time U.S. champion since Michelle Kwan. She is also the first Grand Prix Finals winner since...Sasha Cohen.
But yeah, we have to go with 2006 World Champion Kimmie. Here career was brief, but she was really good there for a hot minute.
I know. The problem is, we are grasping at one straw after another. Six months ago posts about Ashley (if any) were, she's an OK skater but lacks the talent to make it to the big time. Now (for the moment) she's projected for a podium spot at Sochi. Woe unto her if she falters on the Grand Prix circuit next year.Originally Posted by Pepe Nero
Well, at least we can say this. In terms of placement at worlds, Ashley is the best skater we've had since Kimmie.
She isn't. You have to go with meissner- the ONLY US lady with a world medal since Cohen (and a 4CC championship, which Czisny also lacks). Even Ashley Wagner has arguably matched Czisny (if not surpassed her) in a single season- a 4CC championship, and 4th at worlds (Czisny's highest finish was 5th). Yes, Czisny has GPF, but I'd say currently, 4CC trumps that as it's a major championship. Really, the only thing Czisny has going for her is that additional US championship (one that she happened to back into, perhaps).Which, of course, is not relevant to the question of whether Alissa is the best we've had since Cohen.
as noted on FSU:
Kimmie--junior world medalist, world champ, 4cc champ
Ashley--4CC champ and 4th at worlds [the highest since 2007], Junior World Bronze x2
Nagasu--4CC medal, Junior World silver and bronze
Zhang--4CC medal x2, Junior World gold and silver x2
Flatt--Junior World gold
Zawadzki--Junior World silver and bronze
Gold--Junior World silver
Katy Taylor [4CC gold], Bebe Liang [4CC bronze], and Emily Hughes [junior world bronze medal and a 4CC silver medal] were also mention to have more international success than Czisny.
GP medals aren't championship medals by the way. Her best title is GPF gold.
So Meissner is the most decorated followed by Wagner, then everybody else.
While I always appreciated Michelle's competitiveness, the US ladies now really make me see how good Sasha was. Yes, she was never clean and not a very good "skater", but she never gave up on programs after mistakes like Alissa, Nagasu, and others. I see that same look of intensity when I watch Ashley skate, which is why I'm happy her results are starting to reflect her talent. I don't think she will win a World title, but I think Ashley will end up as most decorated of this group of current US senior ladies (Gracie excluded).
I must be one of the few US skating fans who doesn’t see the supposed immense talent that Czisny possesses. She has her strengths – her spinning & elegance on the ice. But her speed and jump technique are subpar. Even at her best, Czisny’s jumps are small and barely rotated. She rarely skates a long program without at least one fall. I think it is impossible for her to be consistent with her jump technique. So, her meltdown at Worlds wasn’t surprising to me. I didn’t expect her to perform THAT badly, but after her Challenge Cup performance, I was expecting a disaster.
I think the US ladies will always remain second tier as long as skaters like Czisny are promoted internationally. We need skaters who can consistently land difficult jumps and jump combos (which is why so many people are excited about Gracie Gold.) So, I am hoping that Czisny is never placed on a US Worlds team again. I’m sure she’s a lovely person, but as a figure skater, I don’t think she’s particularly talented. I don’t even find her artistic, as her programs are empty and marred by her stalking her jumps.
Last edited by Selene; 04-15-2012 at 01:18 PM.