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Thread: Alissa Czisny plans to compete next season

  1. #136
    Custom Title Victura's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by R.D. View Post
    The flip side of this statement is that the "gifts" you speak of often wind up with people who don't have a passion for said activity. I've been there. And I realize that it is unfair, and sometimes frustrating for the audience. But just like you cannot give talent to people, you cannot give passion or interest to talented people. It must come from within. Now, in the rare case you get both mixed in- well, that's when you become one of the greats.
    Perhaps people who are naturally talented also have a tendency to take that talent for granted, which may lead to work ethic problems, which may or may not be in addition to a lack of passion. Couple all of that with how one reacts under high pressure, and it really is an amazing set of requirements and circumstances that need to occur in order to make a champion.

  2. #137
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    True. Being unusually talented often means things come easier to you and therefore, less work is required on your part to get far. Also, there's less of a tendency to "learn by the book" and more of one to do things "your way", that is, the way it comes naturally to you (even if it's not the proper "technique"). Again, I've sort of been there, so I know what it feels like.

  3. #138
    I got your program components right here. Pepe Nero's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skateluvr View Post
    Well, I wonder what Alissa is reading on the boards? Two of her comments surprise and bother me a bit. Firsst, "I love competing." Huh? It looks like torture. I think she just can't bear to leave with a 22nd place finish, and even the lingerie dress couldn't help her. I rewatched Nationals. She has something in her skating that Zhang does not. Beautiful stroking, flow, basic skills which get her over, but she is a tentative jumper whose nerves are not going to get better next year. Please Alissa, have mercy on your fans who supported you all the way. It was torture to watch you compete your last two competitons. Please do some gorgeous programs for shows and galas. Go all out and get yourself invited to every show. People will forget this year. Join SOI if not bankrupt. Look at the show programs of Shizuka Arakawa, and emulate her. Get the choreographer who gives you an upbeat number with faster movement. Dazzle us with spins and a great footwork sequence. Even Chan dropped the jumps and did "Elegy" at the WC Gala skate to show off his skating skills which is what you have. This is what I'd like to see. Sasha Cohen barely jumps but is always in demand. Use your beauty and your head. You might finish far from the podium at Nationals next year, and you'll have to live with your GP performances. I honestly think you will lose support and the majority of posters are kind but would rather see you call it a day and dazzle us in the shows. Wear what you want, skate how you want, use the music you always thought was too "unprincessy." No one asked for my advice or our advice but we are all giving our 2, 4 and 6 cents. I think it is past time to move on, whether USFS still "adores" you. There is no glory in being held up.

    There are younger skaters who need to get a chance and as our senior skater, it is time. The other statement that most of the emails were supportive may be true but if you read here or at FSU a lot of people really deep down feel you can't compete, you are embarassing yourself and you did, sadly lose our chance for the third spot. Cruelty sometimes seems like truth. I offeerd much love, appreciation and consolation for the total package of beauty called Alissa Czisny and your courage in getting up.

    Miracles do happen, but you are not a fierce 'bring it on' girl. It is part of why you are loved. Sweet, soft, demure, shy. So if you are reading remember people like to be PC on these boards and "seem kind." Some are brutally honest. I hope if you read this you consider everyone- your long time fans, your federation, the other younger skaters who don't get the "special" points you enjoy for various reasons. Call me mean, anyone, but I think we can all be honest and polite.
    I normally read all the current posts before I add my own two cents, but I can't resist an immediate post this time. I strongly disagree with skateluvr.

    For one, I think whether AC continues her amateur career next year is UP TO HER. She need to decide for herself, not based on what a bunch of armchair internet posters think.

    Second, AC is the best figure skater America has had since Sasha Cohen. This discussion board is full of fair weather friends who anoint a new queen based on one short program (think: the talk about Zawadzki immediately after, even DURING, her SP at nationals; folks ready to send her to Worlds after one, admittedly awesome, jumping pass).

    I wish I knew (I wish we all knew) what the issue at Worlds and the Challenge Cup was. I think it was more than nerves, and more than AC's alleged fear of competition. She's dealt with those issue before; no reason those would have caused such an issue. Seems like there must have been more to it.

    Whatever it is, I remain her loyal fan. I can't wait to see her next year. Her triple lutz/triple toe (!!) was really close this year (look at the Skate America LP again) and I think she can get it next year.

    And I am eager to see these boards next year when Ashley Wagner and poor Gracie Gold (with the insane expectations already upon her) "disappoint" us, one of the two of them almost inevitably.
    Last edited by Pepe Nero; 04-15-2012 at 01:28 AM.

  4. #139
    I got your program components right here. Pepe Nero's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skateluvr View Post
    She is reading internet sites, she said so. So, you think MM, she should just keep on? Aren't you being PC nice and not honest? It is time for her to retire. How much more should her fans and fans of USFS suffer? Painful painful painful to watch her demise.
    It's really none your business, skateluvr. Just fast-forward through AC's performances if she bothers you so much. Or relish that (as you think) she will fail. But it is not your job, or your right, to tell figure skaters whether or not they should retire. Jeez.

    I thought for a moment you liked AC when I saw the "AC consolation thread," but I did notice the odd way you sexually objectified her in that post as well. I think it is a mistake if you honestly considered yourself her fan.

  5. #140
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    I think you can be a fan and express profound disappointment. It may very well be true she just isn't tough enough for elite competition and the pressure that comes with being a favorite. Her Worlds programs were among the all time worst for someone with that amount of talent. It's perfectly acceptable to question whether she should have gone (I think she should have, if only because no one else was more qualified as our second skater) or whether she should continue (I think she should if she wants to).

  6. #141
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    Second, AC is the best figure skater America has had since Sasha Cohen.
    Well, it certainly isn't showing in the results. Cohen has been to the Olympics 2x (1 medal), 2 world silvers and a world bronze. AFAIK after 2003 she always finished on the podium somewhere. Show me Czisny's World or Olympic medal and then perhaps we can talk. (oops, can't!)

    IMO this title might go to Meissner but of course she's done too.

    And I am eager to see these boards next year when Ashley Wagner and poor Gracie Gold (with the insane expectations already upon her) "disappoint" us, one of the two of them almost inevitably.
    Nothing is a done deal which is why I dislike all this early hyping of Gold. It's only setting her up for spectacular disappointment the MOMENT she has an off-night. I already said this earlier but I'm just not seeing how she'll make the type of impact say, Yuna Kim or Mao Asada did when they came out, winning world medals right out of the gate. Of course, it COULD happen, but you know, there's no guarantee she'll even be on next year's world team with Wagner and possibly Zhang/Nagasu in the hunt.

    It may very well be true [Czisny] just isn't tough enough for elite competition and the pressure that comes with being a favorite. Her Worlds programs were among the all time worst for someone with that amount of talent. It's perfectly acceptable to question whether she should have gone
    Absolutely. Whether Czisny fans like it or not, her performance here was historic- I mean, it will be remembered as one of the biggest meltdowns in history. Especially considering that a solid short would have put her in medal contention!

  7. #142
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    I wish I knew (I wish we all knew) what the issue at Worlds and the Challenge Cup was. I think it was more than nerves, and more than AC's alleged fear of competition. She's dealt with those issue before; no reason those would have caused such an issue. Seems like there must have been more to it.
    I agree 100%. Something else had to be going on for AC to have had such a bad skate. I don't know what the issue was, but someone with that much talent and experience could not have had so many falls without some other issue. My guess is an injury because her coaches didn't seem shocked at her performance. I wonder if she had to skate to keep the 2nd spot for next year and couldn't withdraw. Maybe soon we will get the details.

  8. #143
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    I agree. The meltdown was so complete that it seems to have another underlying reason. Normally I don't like to pry into things, but because Alissa was representing the U.S. at Worlds, and her skating was to have an effect, one way or the other, on the composition of the U.S. world team for 2013, I think we're entitled at least to speculate on the possibilities.

  9. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by Olympia View Post
    I agree. The meltdown was so complete that it seems to have another underlying reason. Normally I don't like to pry into things, but because Alissa was representing the U.S. at Worlds, and her skating was to have an effect, one way or the other, on the composition of the U.S. world team for 2013, I think we're entitled at least to speculate on the possibilities.
    The bolded statement above is what I think some of Czisny's biggest fans/defenders just aren't seeing. It's not just HER we're talking about here- it's USFS, the 2013 world team composition and even how the 2013 team does ultimately. Not to dwell too much on the 3rd spot (since there's no guarantee another skater would have gotten it) but there are times where the "3rd US lady", with the pressure off, has had the highest result at Worlds/Olys. The most dramatic example is perhaps S Hughes in SLC. I believe Lysacek was the 3rd US man in 2009 and he ended up winning the World championship. Imagine if we didn't have that 3rd spot...you could wipe those results right off the map.

    With the depth in US ladies we could really use a 3rd spot. Even Russia was able to squeeze out 3 spots with so-called has-beens Makarova and Leonova. With that in mind, I think it is definitely fair game to question USFS' world team selection policy and seriously ask if they should make changes to it for the future.

  10. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by R.D. View Post
    Well, it certainly isn't showing in the results. Cohen has been to the Olympics 2x (1 medal), 2 world silvers and a world bronze. AFAIK after 2003 she always finished on the podium somewhere.
    Which, of course, is not relevant to the question of whether Alissa is the best we've had since Cohen.

    AC (alternating current?) is the first two-time U.S. champion since Michelle Kwan. She is also the first Grand Prix Finals winner since...Sasha Cohen.

    But yeah, we have to go with 2006 World Champion Kimmie. Here career was brief, but she was really good there for a hot minute.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pepe Nero
    And I am eager to see these boards next year when Ashley Wagner and poor Gracie Gold (with the insane expectations already upon her) "disappoint" us, one of the two of them almost inevitably.
    I know. The problem is, we are grasping at one straw after another. Six months ago posts about Ashley (if any) were, she's an OK skater but lacks the talent to make it to the big time. Now (for the moment) she's projected for a podium spot at Sochi. Woe unto her if she falters on the Grand Prix circuit next year.

    Well, at least we can say this. In terms of placement at worlds, Ashley is the best skater we've had since Kimmie.

  11. #146
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    Which, of course, is not relevant to the question of whether Alissa is the best we've had since Cohen.
    She isn't. You have to go with meissner- the ONLY US lady with a world medal since Cohen (and a 4CC championship, which Czisny also lacks). Even Ashley Wagner has arguably matched Czisny (if not surpassed her) in a single season- a 4CC championship, and 4th at worlds (Czisny's highest finish was 5th). Yes, Czisny has GPF, but I'd say currently, 4CC trumps that as it's a major championship. Really, the only thing Czisny has going for her is that additional US championship (one that she happened to back into, perhaps).

  12. #147
    Custom Title DobrinFan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pepe Nero View Post
    Second, AC is the best figure skater America has had since Sasha Cohen.
    No she isn't; she has no international championship medals [i.e. Junior Worlds, 4CC, World medals]

    as noted on FSU:

    Kimmie--junior world medalist, world champ, 4cc champ
    Ashley--4CC champ and 4th at worlds [the highest since 2007], Junior World Bronze x2
    Nagasu--4CC medal, Junior World silver and bronze
    Zhang--4CC medal x2, Junior World gold and silver x2
    Flatt--Junior World gold
    Zawadzki--Junior World silver and bronze
    Gold--Junior World silver

    Katy Taylor [4CC gold], Bebe Liang [4CC bronze], and Emily Hughes [junior world bronze medal and a 4CC silver medal] were also mention to have more international success than Czisny.

    GP medals aren't championship medals by the way. Her best title is GPF gold.
    So Meissner is the most decorated followed by Wagner, then everybody else.

  13. #148
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    While I always appreciated Michelle's competitiveness, the US ladies now really make me see how good Sasha was. Yes, she was never clean and not a very good "skater", but she never gave up on programs after mistakes like Alissa, Nagasu, and others. I see that same look of intensity when I watch Ashley skate, which is why I'm happy her results are starting to reflect her talent. I don't think she will win a World title, but I think Ashley will end up as most decorated of this group of current US senior ladies (Gracie excluded).

  14. #149
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    I must be one of the few US skating fans who doesn’t see the supposed immense talent that Czisny possesses. She has her strengths – her spinning & elegance on the ice. But her speed and jump technique are subpar. Even at her best, Czisny’s jumps are small and barely rotated. She rarely skates a long program without at least one fall. I think it is impossible for her to be consistent with her jump technique. So, her meltdown at Worlds wasn’t surprising to me. I didn’t expect her to perform THAT badly, but after her Challenge Cup performance, I was expecting a disaster.

    I think the US ladies will always remain second tier as long as skaters like Czisny are promoted internationally. We need skaters who can consistently land difficult jumps and jump combos (which is why so many people are excited about Gracie Gold.) So, I am hoping that Czisny is never placed on a US Worlds team again. I’m sure she’s a lovely person, but as a figure skater, I don’t think she’s particularly talented. I don’t even find her artistic, as her programs are empty and marred by her stalking her jumps.
    Last edited by Selene; 04-15-2012 at 12:18 PM.

  15. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by Selene View Post
    I think the US ladies will always remain second tier as long as skaters like Czisny are promoted internationally.
    The brutal truth...

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