- Joined
- Jun 16, 2010
I do, too! Rachael should have won in 2008 and in 2009. (But she should have lost to Mirai in 2010. What are you gonna do?)
Wagner clearly should have won in 2008. Rachael beating her down to 3rd was a crime.
I do, too! Rachael should have won in 2008 and in 2009. (But she should have lost to Mirai in 2010. What are you gonna do?)
The 2 members of the US world team since 2009:
2009: Flatt, Czisny
2010: Flatt, Nagasu
2011: Flatt, Czisny
2012: Wagner, Czisny
So in 4 years, we've sent a total of 4 candidates: Flatt, Czisny, Nagasu and Wagner. Now let's analyze their results:
Flatt: 5th, 9th, 12th
Nagasu: 7th
Wagner: 4th
Czisny: 11th, 5th, 22nd
Now, usually one member has a stronger performance and the other member struggles or bombs altogether. Let's see who was the lower placing skater each year.
2009: Czisny (11th)
2010: Flatt (9th)
2011: Flatt (12th)
2012: Czisny (22nd)
Now, how many contenders in the ladies field do we have? Besides them...Zhang, Zawadzki, Gold, Nagasu, Wagner, Gao?
Just looking at these numbers, it seems only Flatt and Czisny have had multiple trips to worlds. And their placements have been all over the map (particularly Czisny's). Have the other ladies REALLY had chances at worlds? For all the talk about the US not "producing any world beaters"...it seems like the same 2 skaters have been on the team the past 4 years- and their results have NOT improved.
So, what's the solution to enhance our chances for 3 spots? There's no easy fix, but I'd say there are two skaters that have had multiple chances and have come up short multiple times, so they probably wouldn't be on the team that got the spots back. In short, the numbers tell us to root for skaters other than Flatt and/or Czisny to get in the US top 2. Maybe a team of Wagner/Gold? Wagner/Nagasu 2.0? Of course, no way to know until we see how these skaters are performing next season. Food for thought.
(Another thing, there's a video of her practicing a triple axel on YouTube. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-0sYGrI6Lk The jump looked good, like she could land it without the aid of the pole harness. If she could add the triple axel to her program, she could help her cause by having much more difficult technical content in her program than the rest of the field.)
I am not completely sure what you are recommending. If you are recommending that we root for other skaters, OK, let's root. But the rooting of fans doesn't help us get three spots either.
If you are proposing that the USFSA should rig it so that other skaters go and not Alissa and Rachael, I don't see how that is right.
If you are saying that the USFSA should change its rules just to keep two particular skaters out, that's not right either. (The same rules should pertain to everyone, not just to Cynthia Phaneuf.)
Personally, I would happily go along with any system for selecting the Worlds team, as long as it is clearly announced ahead of time and settled by the athletes on the field of play.
So really one doesnt have to hold them down purposely. Just score the performances rightly, dont hold them up like has been done in years past, and neither one will make it anyhow (maybe an outside shot for Czisny in that case if she has one of her better outings and it is a so soish event).
But do you really think the judges at Nationals decided to throw extra points Alissa's way and disadvantage the other skaters? That would be highly unethical, since everyone should get their fair chance to claim a Worlds spot. I just can't believe that the judges would ever behave so unscrupulously. It goes against the requirements of their job to be objective.
But do you really think the judges at Nationals decided to throw extra points Alissa's way and disadvantage the other skaters? That would be highly unethical, since everyone should get their fair chance to claim a Worlds spot. I just can't believe that the judges would ever behave so unscrupulously. It goes against the requirements of their job to be objective.
I think it's more of a perception issue. They give Alissa tons of PCS because she is perceived to have the best artistry. The international judges are that way too except when she does badly, her pcs does drop quite a bit. (though at Worlds, she was still 11th in pcs, preventing her from being dead last.)
At nationals a that same drop doesnt happen when she does not skate well. (see nationals 2009, 2012)
Wagner clearly should have won in 2008. Rachael beating her down to 3rd was a crime.
I did have an issue with her winning in 2009, though. She should have been at least 3rd in the FS if not overall.
In the SP,
Wagner double fted the 3flip - single the toe on the combo. should be -3GOE
Double fted the flutz. edge & double ft, should be -3GOE
Clearly what? She shouldn't even be on the podium
WHAT? That was '09, where Ashley finished 4th overall and paid a very high price for those mistakes in the SP (she was in 12th). In 2008 Ashley landed the triple lutz-triple loop combo in both in the SP and in the LP. Even with the wrong take-off edge, that was still by far the hardest combination of any ladies in the competition.
Alissa does seem to get relatively high PCS scores, even when she bombs. I don't like that aspect of the scoring system, which one has very little ( <10%) variation in PCS scores between a great skate and a poor skate. But she does pull those good scores internationally as well. It's a tough situation because any of the other US girls are giving almost 10 points in PCS for the competition, plus Alissa spins better than any of them, so she can mess up a lot of jumps and still end up ahead.
Alissa does seem to get relatively high PCS scores, even when she bombs. I don't like that aspect of the scoring system, which one has very little ( <10%) variation in PCS scores between a great skate and a poor skate. But she does pull those good scores internationally as well. It's a tough situation because any of the other US girls are giving almost 10 points in PCS for the competition, plus Alissa spins better than any of them, so she can mess up a lot of jumps and still end up ahead.
But we don't want to do it like that. It's easier to just leave the national championships as they are, and simply extend the criteria for needing to make the world team. One way would be to require a WIN at nationals to make the team, and everyone else either skates off for spot 2, or is chosen at discretion (based on hard numbers, of course).