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Thread: Alissa Czisny plans to compete next season

  1. #166
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    Here's hoping that Rachel Flatt wins Nationals next season, along with Czisny in the silver medal position.

  2. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImaginaryPogue View Post
    Here's hoping that Rachel Flatt wins Nationals next season...
    I do, too! Rachael should have won in 2008 and in 2009. (But she should have lost to Mirai in 2010. What are you gonna do?)

  3. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by pangtongfan View Post
    I think your latter point was the case. However next season with Gold competing Senior Nationals and Senior events most likely, and Zhang possibly improving futher (or maybe Nagasu getting her act together) they will have an abundance of options for the U.S #2 lady behind Wagner for Worlds.
    I'm not so optimistic. I think Gracie could have a bright future but, as we saw at Worlds with Polina K, the judges are not going to give the juniorish skaters the PCS scores they need to be competitive with the top ladies. She has to improve in a few areas before she will get great PCS, although if she can nail a 7 triple program she can get in the top 10. A relatively clean Zhang finished 4th at Nationals and 3rd at 4CC, so if she makes any errors at all she will not rank very high. Mirai is a wildcard but her coaching situation is a bit unsettling. Certainly one or two of them could be a solid #2 a year from now but I wouldn't go as far as calling it an abundance of options.

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    I have been wondering if the US selection criteria may have produced some Nationals specialists who can't maintain the momentum afterwards. The winningest skater, Patrick Chan, has been peaking at his Nationals too but does not fall off there after. The reasons for his peaking there are opposite from those for the American Worlds entries. At Canadian Nationals, Chan has no pressure except what he creates purposely for himself, and he thrives on the tremendous support from the audience. His real goal and focus for the season is Worlds. The US Nationals, OTOH, is probably regarded by many American skaters as the most urgently important event since, besides the National title on the line, it's the only competition that counts towards Worlds team selection. It is intensely competitive with so many skaters with about equal chances on the few spots up for grabs. There are physical and mental reasons for the winners there to drop off significantly after, with some of them bombing Worlds which they have spent themselves trying to get to.

    When one's body is on survival rather than growth mode, it forsakes the immunity and other visceral systems to focus on the muscles for fight or fright. When the stressful situation is over, one is weakened and vulnerable to many opportunistic diseases. The US Nationals may be akin to a critical situation the skaters have been geared up for all season, putting off Worlds as a primary goal till after the Nationals and only if selected. After the big fight and the elation and relief, Worlds may suddenly dawn on them as even more difficult than the one they just survived or triumphed at. It is a new campaign with little time to gear up and get ready for physically and mentally after the big stress or big success they just went through.

    This scenario really is not applicable to a clear favorite and fighter such as Kwan and Lysacek. So Jeremy is still a puzzle.

  5. #170
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    I think you are way overanalyzing the situation because two months is plenty of time to gear up once again. Most professional athletes travel quite a bit and are able to perform at their peak level. The best of the best skaters representing a country of 200 million should be able to handle this situation. In fact, all of our champions except one (Jeremy) performed as well as expected in Nice.

  6. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by drivingmissdaisy View Post
    I think you are way overanalyzing the situation because two months is plenty of time to gear up once again. Most professional athletes travel quite a bit and are able to perform at their peak level. The best of the best skaters representing a country of 200 million should be able to handle this situation. In fact, all of our champions except one (Jeremy) performed as well as expected in Nice.
    Aren't there constant complaints on this board about US skaters' inconsistencies, especially at Worlds? They may take turns, depending on who are sent, but inconsistency seems to be the only consistency these years. Some consistency and great performances would have gotten more entries for the US and lessen the Nationals pressure and the vicious cycle.
    Last edited by SkateFiguring; 04-15-2012 at 06:43 PM.

  7. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkateFiguring View Post
    Aren't there constant complaints on this board about US skaters' inconsistencies, especially at Worlds? They may take turns, depending on who are sent, but inconsistency seems to be the only consistency these years. Some consistency and great performances would have gotten more entries for the US and lessen the Nationals pressure and the vicious cycle.
    I think the more straightforward explanation is that the U.S. has not produced any world-beating skaters lately who can deliver the goods every time out. They do their best. Ice is slippery.

  8. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    I think the more straightforward explanation is that the U.S. has not produced any world-beating skaters lately who can deliver the goods every time out. They do their best. Ice is slippery.
    The question is why they don't do their best or close to it at the last and biggest event. Some of their best are pretty awesome.

  9. #174
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    The 2 members of the US world team since 2009:

    2009: Flatt, Czisny
    2010: Flatt, Nagasu
    2011: Flatt, Czisny
    2012: Wagner, Czisny

    So in 4 years, we've sent a total of 4 candidates: Flatt, Czisny, Nagasu and Wagner. Now let's analyze their results:

    Flatt: 5th, 9th, 12th
    Nagasu: 7th
    Wagner: 4th
    Czisny: 11th, 5th, 22nd

    Now, usually one member has a stronger performance and the other member struggles or bombs altogether. Let's see who was the lower placing skater each year.

    2009: Czisny (11th)
    2010: Flatt (9th)
    2011: Flatt (12th)
    2012: Czisny (22nd)

    Now, how many contenders in the ladies field do we have? Besides them...Zhang, Zawadzki, Gold, Nagasu, Wagner, Gao?

    Just looking at these numbers, it seems only Flatt and Czisny have had multiple trips to worlds. And their placements have been all over the map (particularly Czisny's). Have the other ladies REALLY had chances at worlds? For all the talk about the US not "producing any world beaters"...it seems like the same 2 skaters have been on the team the past 4 years- and their results have NOT improved.

    So, what's the solution to enhance our chances for 3 spots? There's no easy fix, but I'd say there are two skaters that have had multiple chances and have come up short multiple times, so they probably wouldn't be on the team that got the spots back. In short, the numbers tell us to root for skaters other than Flatt and/or Czisny to get in the US top 2. Maybe a team of Wagner/Gold? Wagner/Nagasu 2.0? Of course, no way to know until we see how these skaters are performing next season. Food for thought.
    Last edited by R.D.; 04-15-2012 at 08:49 PM.

  10. #175
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    I have proposed keeping Jeremy home when he's brilliant at the Nationals and sending him to Worlds when he fails to medal at home. Not sure what to do about the Ladies.

  11. #176
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    R.D., Wagner has also been to more than one Worlds. In '08 she placed 16th.

  12. #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by periperi View Post
    R.D., Wagner has also been to more than one Worlds. In '08 she placed 16th.
    Yes, I know. I was looking at the period of 2009-2012 specifically- the period when we only sent TWO skaters to Worlds. In 2008, we had 3 skaters- Meissner, Liang and Wagner. Wagner was 16th, yes, but it actually did not factor in since Meissner (7) and Liang (10) were above her.

  13. #178
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkateFiguring View Post
    I have proposed keeping Jeremy home when he's brilliant at the Nationals and sending him to Worlds when he fails to medal at home.
    Don't even know what to make of Jeremy anymore. He doesn't have any wacky technical issues that we can put the blame on for his inconsistency unlike many of the American ladies. So frustrating.

    Quote Originally Posted by R.D. View Post
    Yes, I know. I was looking at the period of 2009-2012 specifically- the period when we only sent TWO skaters to Worlds. In 2008, we had 3 skaters- Meissner, Liang and Wagner. Wagner was 16th, yes, but it actually did not factor in since Meissner (7) and Liang (10) were above her.
    Ah, OK.
    Last edited by periperi; 04-15-2012 at 09:13 PM.

  14. #179
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    In short, the numbers tell us to root for skaters other than Flatt and/or Czisny to get in the US top 2.
    I am not completely sure what you are recommending. If you are recommending that we root for other skaters, OK, let's root. But the rooting of fans doesn't help us get three spots either.

    If you are proposing that the USFSA should rig it so that other skaters go and not Alissa and Rachael, I don't see how that is right.

    If you are saying that the USFSA should change its rules just to keep two particular skaters out, that's not right either. (The same rules should pertain to everyone, not just to Cynthia Phaneuf.)

    Personally, I would happily go along with any system for selecting the Worlds team, as long as it is clearly announced ahead of time and settled by the athletes on the field of play.

    Who plays in the Super Bowl? To get there you have to beat all the other teams. There is no committee sitting off in the wings saying, this team should go to the Super Bowl, that one should stay home. Certainly the AFC should not say, well, New England lost the Super Bowl last year, so we won't send them this year, never mind that they went undefeated in the playoffs this season.

  15. #180
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    If you are proposing that the USFSA should rig it so that other skaters go and not Alissa and Rachael, I don't see how that is right.
    Isn't that what happened at Nationals this year? Czisny was held up by the judges. She messed up her double axel in the SP & only landed 2 clean triples in the free skate. She finished second because judges held her up on PCS. Meanwhile, Flatt was held down by the judges. Like Czisny, she singled her axel in the SP. The the judges used that mistake to bury her in the standings. She also skated a better free skate than Czisny, landing five triples. But she didn't receive the same generous scores from the judges.

    It would be very easy to keep Czisny off the Worlds team next year. All the judges need to do is stop holding her up on PCS.

    Quote Originally Posted by drivingmissdaisy View Post
    I'm not so optimistic. I think Gracie could have a bright future but, as we saw at Worlds with Polina K, the judges are not going to give the juniorish skaters the PCS scores they need to be competitive with the top ladies. She has to improve in a few areas before she will get great PCS, although if she can nail a 7 triple program she can get in the top 10. A relatively clean Zhang finished 4th at Nationals and 3rd at 4CC, so if she makes any errors at all she will not rank very high. Mirai is a wildcard but her coaching situation is a bit unsettling. Certainly one or two of them could be a solid #2 a year from now but I wouldn't go as far as calling it an abundance of options.
    Polina K did not skate well at Worlds. She received much better PCS scores at Europeans, when she actually skated well. If Gracie can land 7 triples in her free skate, she will finish very high in the standings. (Another thing, there's a video of her practicing a triple axel on YouTube. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-0sYGrI6Lk The jump looked good, like she could land it without the aid of the pole harness. If she could add the triple axel to her program, she could help her cause by having much more difficult technical content in her program than the rest of the field.)
    Last edited by Selene; 04-15-2012 at 10:05 PM.

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