Alissa Czisny plans to compete next season

Mrs. P · Apr 21, 2012

Jammers said:
I just hope Gracie's body doesn't change much. Look at Mirai she is much more stocky then when she was Gracie's age. But luckily Gracie has much better jump technique so she may be all right in the future.

A lot of is also about WHEN you grow too...

Here's Gracie in September 2009 when she was a novice — http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wg8UyTVaNHU

Here's Gracie a year later in Skate Detroit 2010 (junior) — http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QDDWMKn9Npg

Here's Gracie at Skate Detroit 2011 (also as a junior) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JEG7zOTuiSU

In this progression of videos you can see that she grew a lot between 2009-2010, but not much between 2010-2011, which tells me she's done growing for the most part.
You can also see how far she has come in just one year (between 2010 and 2011).

chuckm · Apr 21, 2012

Tonichelle said:
Thank God for Paul Wylie stories...

Doesn't quite compare to Alissa.

Wylie was attending Harvard during the 80s and early 90s. He went to Worlds in 1988 (9th), 1990 (10th) and 1991 (11th). He graduated Harvard in 1991, and was able to devote his full time to skating leading up to 1992 Nationals and the Olympics.

Alissa attended Bowling Green State U, where she was able to take many of her classes online, not an option for Wylie at Harvard. While attending college, she went to 2007 Worlds (15th) and 2009 Worlds (11th). She graduated in 2009, then finished 10th at 2010 US Nationals. In the 2010-2011 season, she won the 2010-2011 GPF, 2011 Nationals and was 5th at 2011 Worlds. This season, she finished last at the GPF, was 2nd at Nationals and 22nd at 2012 Worlds.

The main difference between Wylie and Czisny is consistency. From 1983 through 1987, Wylie never finished lower than 5th at US Nationals, and was 2nd or 3rd every year from 1988 through 1992. Czisny competed as a Senior starting with 2002 Nationals, and made it to the podium four times: 2007 (3rd), 2009 (1st), 2011 (1st), 2912 (2nd). Her other finishes: 2002-2004: 11th, 10th, 12th; 2005-2006: 7th; 2008: 9th; 2010: 10th.

feraina · Apr 21, 2012

Jammers said:
I just hope Gracie's body doesn't change much. Look at Mirai she is much more stocky then when she was Gracie's age. But luckily Gracie has much better jump technique so she may be all right in the future.

I seem to recall people loved Mirai's jumps when she was younger/slimmer, too. She had such a spring in her jumps. Her 2A was really spectacular. And at Gracie's current age, Mirai looked pretty developed too, but that didn't stop puberty from changing her body some more in the next two years.

Olympia · Apr 21, 2012

chuckm said:
Doesn't quite compare to Alissa.

Wylie was attending Harvard during the 80s and early 90s. He went to Worlds in 1988 (9th), 1990 (10th) and 1991 (11th). He graduated Harvard in 1991, and was able to devote his full time to skating leading up to 1992 Nationals and the Olympics.

Alissa attended Bowling Green State U, where she was able to take many of her classes online, not an option for Wylie at Harvard. While attending college, she went to 2007 Worlds (15th) and 2009 Worlds (11th). She graduated in 2009, then finished 10th at 2010 US Nationals. In the 2010-2011 season, she won the 2010-2011 GPF, 2011 Nationals and was 5th at 2011 Worlds. This season, she finished last at the GPF, was 2nd at Nationals and 22nd at 2012 Worlds.

The main difference between Wylie and Czisny is consistency. From 1983 through 1987, Wylie never finished lower than 5th at US Nationals, and was 2nd or 3rd every year from 1988 through 1992. Czisny competed as a Senior starting with 2002 Nationals, and made it to the podium four times: 2007 (3rd), 2009 (1st), 2011 (1st), 2912 (2nd). Her other finishes: 2002-2004: 11th, 10th, 12th; 2005-2006: 7th; 2008: 9th; 2010: 10th.

I agree. Paul Wylie wasn't the consistency machine that someone like Michelle was, but he was pretty good and got better as soon as he left college. Alissa is like no one else: she's got huge talent but terrible fright. She's not like those "talented but won't apply themselves" skaters like Nicole Bobek or Christopher Bowman--she seems to work very hard, in fact. It's something in her mind that keeps her from using her gifts to the fullest. Even with her less-than-stellar jumps, she could be splendid (as we've seen every second or third year). In the past five or six years, she's been almost the only American lady who's gotten to the Grand Prix final. She has so much, but she also has so many demons. Or at least she has one demon....which she can't seem to get rid of.

Mrs. P · Apr 21, 2012

feraina said:
I seem to recall people loved Mirai's jumps when she was younger/slimmer, too. She had such a spring in her jumps. Her 2A was really spectacular. And at Gracie's current age, Mirai looked pretty developed too, but that didn't stop puberty from changing her body some more in the next two years.

We shall see, but Gracie's basically had the same figure since the summer of 2010, give or take a few inches. I don't really see her all of a sudden having a dramatic body shift. Any changes at this point will be modest and I have confidence that she can handle it.

And as I said, Gracie may be skinny but she's no waif. Again, look at the photos with her and the other lady skaters, she does not look like a skinny teenager next to Meryl or Ashley. I think she's still figuring out how to pose with her body in programs, but that's more of a packaging thing not a puberty thing.

brightphoton · Apr 22, 2012

Don't know if anyone has ever seen this exhibition of Czisny before. I certainly haven't. We've seen so many soft pieces from her for the last 3 years. This was very different and her jumps were still small, but it works. Competition music like this could bring out some fight from her.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UOGnsk0JSWs

silverlake22 · Apr 22, 2012

feraina said:
I seem to recall people loved Mirai's jumps when she was younger/slimmer, too. She had such a spring in her jumps. Her 2A was really spectacular. And at Gracie's current age, Mirai looked pretty developed too, but that didn't stop puberty from changing her body some more in the next two years.

Exaclty. At 16 Mirai was the same height she is now, didn't have a little girl's body, and didn't look that different from the year before when she was 15 and had just finished her big growthspurt. But then over the next two seasons she filled out a lot and began to struggle more with jump consistency. It's similar to what happened to Kimmie actually. Not the puberty monster but the one that comes after puberty, when it's common for girls to put on a bunch of weight. Rachael also went through the same thing starting in the Olympic season and that was when she started to have issues with URs. She was never a stick figure skater, but her weaknesses as a skater became amplified when she became more busty and womanly in her figure. Maybe Gracie will be more like Ashley though, who has always been very strong and muscular in her build and didn't gain a lot of weight post puberty. Already at 16 Gracie is quite muscular and her build is somewhat similar to Ashley.

R.D. · Apr 22, 2012

"puberty monster" :rolleye:

Jammers · Apr 22, 2012

Gracie has better jump technique then Mirai had or even Rachael or Kimmie despite the problems yesterday. But we will see next season. Hopefully she keeps those big jumps.

macy · Apr 22, 2012

drivingmissdaisy said:
I agree macy. My only concern is if she achieves that high level for one event (nationals), makes the world team again then bombs. There is no excuse for a senior skater in singles (or even pairs) to not land at least ONE clean 2A or 3T in the span of two programs.

i agree. that is why i hope she figures out what went wrong and works on it so it doens't happen again. i really think some new programs with happier music will help.

Jammers · Apr 22, 2012

I just don't want to see Alissa at Worlds ever again. She bombs to much and she turns 25 in a couple months. Really how much better can she get? Plus at the WTT we saw all the top Ladies try 3-3 combo's. Alissa has no hope of landing one of those. Yes she's a beautiful skater but i want to see someone lands some difficult jumps too. Even when she lands a jump you sometimes wonder how.

mskater93 · Apr 23, 2012

Jammers said:
Gracie has better jump technique then Mirai had or even Rachael or Kimmie despite the problems yesterday. But we will see next season. Hopefully she keeps those big jumps.

Having seen her parents, it's very doubtful Gracie will fill out much more unless she puts on more muscle. She appeared to be focused on the changes in the program rather than the program itself which seemed to cause a lapse in concentration. It did appear she was having a GREAT time there, though!

Pepe Nero · Apr 23, 2012

Jammers said:
I just don't want to see Alissa at Worlds ever again. She bombs to much and she turns 25 in a couple months. Really how much better can she get? Plus at the WTT we saw all the top Ladies try 3-3 combo's. Alissa has no hope of landing one of those. Yes she's a beautiful skater but i want to see someone lands some difficult jumps too. Even when she lands a jump you sometimes wonder how.

Czisny is quite capable of a triple-triple. Indeed, she has a decent history of triple lutz/triple toe combinations. Here are two examples:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1hY4GwLcnaY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xO274EF7Cdw

Now, two qualifications about these examples. The first was a while ago, I admit. The second one, this past year at Skate America, was downgraded by the judges. (Nevertheless, that means she got the second one around about halfway, in competition, under those "nerves" that allegedly so terrify her). But she landed both of of them pretty securely. I'd add that during the Universal Sports commentary at Worlds this year, Tara Lipinski commented that, in a recent show she did with Alissa, Alissa was doing triple lutz/triple toe combinations left and right, in front of an audience and in practice.

Somewhat separately, I am not super impressed by all of the women doing triple toe/triple toe combinations this year. That combination is worth only slightly more (0.8, I think) than a triple lutz/double toe, a combination Czisny does quite well (usually, setting aside the last two anomalous competitions for her).

Don't get me wrong. I'd love to see more women doing BIG jumps. But I am just as happy with triple lutz/double toes as I am with triple toe/triple toe combinations. What I'd love to see is as many women attempting triple axels as men attempting quads.

drivingmissdaisy · Apr 23, 2012

Pepe, the problem isn't what she can do in practice, it's that she does not deliver in the programs. Honestly, what do you tell a skater who can do a 3Z/3T in practice but cannot land a 2A in competition? And the "last two anomalous competitions" is what she has done most of her career aside from maybe 2 seasons.

R.D. · Apr 24, 2012

drivingmissdaisy said:
Pepe, the problem isn't what she can do in practice, it's that she does not deliver in the programs. Honestly, what do you tell a skater who can do a 3Z/3T in practice but cannot land a 2A in competition? And the "last two anomalous competitions" is what she has done most of her career aside from maybe 2 seasons.

Exactly. Last season was obviously a fluke and may have been her peak as a competitor, actually. Even on the National level it's not going to get any easier for her if Gold is even worth HALF the hype she's getting, and Wagner keeps it up. I'm somehow hoping Nagasu and Zawadzki can pull themselves together as well, and Zhang continues her upward trend.

I WANT to say anything less than Czisny's best next year and she's done, but...USFS judges have showed they're willing to give her "breathing room" anyway if she messes up. Many of the others have proven to be hot/cold as well (Nagasu, Zawadzki). But at least there's Wagner (stay healthy!)...jury will be out on Gold...hopefully Zhang can reach the point where she can best Czisny without a meltdown from the latter.

drivingmissdaisy · Apr 24, 2012

In fairness I think Zhang caught everyone off guard. No one was expecting her to skate that well and maybe she would have been marked higher in the SP had she carried any sort of momentum into nationals. Agnes gave away the lead, so that really left Czisny as our #2. Based on any criteria, if you were to pick a team on their performances through nationals, it had to have been Ashley and Alissa. For NEXT season, I hope they remember her last two performances and weigh that if she is shaky at nationals again. Although if she does get it together she is capable of some really great marks.

Mrs. P · Apr 24, 2012

drivingmissdaisy said:
In fairness I think Zhang caught everyone off guard. No one was expecting her to skate that well and maybe she would have been marked higher in the SP had she carried any sort of momentum into nationals. Agnes gave away the lead, so that really left Czisny as our #2. Based on any criteria, if you were to pick a team on their performances through nationals, it had to have been Ashley and Alissa. For NEXT season, I hope they remember her last two performances and weigh that if she is shaky at nationals again. Although if she does get it together she is capable of some really great marks.

That would make sense for the SP. But it doesn't explain why Caroline didn't beat Alissa at least in the FS.

Caroline lost in the FS to Alissa by just under four (3.85) points. Alissa beat Caroline in in PCS by more than five points. One or two points would have been more appropriate. I think Alissa was rightfully No. 2 but I think Caroline had a good case for beating Alissa in the FS.

FlattFan · Apr 24, 2012

Mrs. P said:
That would make sense for the SP. But it doesn't explain why Caroline didn't beat Alissa at least in the FS.

Caroline lost in the FS to Alissa by just under four (3.85) points. Alissa beat Caroline in in PCS by more than five points. One or two points would have been more appropriate. I think Alissa was rightfully No. 2 but I think Caroline had a good case for beating Alissa in the FS.

The sad thing was I thought Caroline's 3loop-loop combo in the SP was clean in real time. I was right there looking at it with eyes wide opened. It was incredible. Unbelievable!!!! Then they showed the replay on the big screen and it looked clean, too. I'm usually very good at spotting UR or twofooted jumps and I couldn't detect anything from Caroline's jumps.
No one gave Alissa a standing O. They gave Caroline two!!!!!! Caroline should have beaten Alissa by 2-3 points in P/E in the SP. I think this was another case of holding skaters down in case the appointed ones fail. Like the time they gave Rachael 2 random downgrades because she skated first in the final group and they wanted to guarantee Joannie a spot on the podium.

mskater93 · Apr 24, 2012

I think Zhang got the under because of the take off the second loop - it was past forward.

Trewyn · Apr 24, 2012

Pepe Nero said:
Czisny is quite capable of a triple-triple. Indeed, she has a decent history of triple lutz/triple toe combinations. Here are two examples:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1hY4GwLcnaY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xO274EF7Cdw

Now, two qualifications about these examples. The first was a while ago, I admit. The second one, this past year at Skate America, was downgraded by the judges. (Nevertheless, that means she got the second one around about halfway, in competition, under those "nerves" that allegedly so terrify her). But she landed both of of them pretty securely. I'd add that during the Universal Sports commentary at Worlds this year, Tara Lipinski commented that, in a recent show she did with Alissa, Alissa was doing triple lutz/triple toe combinations left and right, in front of an audience and in practice.

Somewhat separately, I am not super impressed by all of the women doing triple toe/triple toe combinations this year. That combination is worth only slightly more (0.8, I think) than a triple lutz/double toe, a combination Czisny does quite well (usually, setting aside the last two anomalous competitions for her).

Don't get me wrong. I'd love to see more women doing BIG jumps. But I am just as happy with triple lutz/double toes as I am with triple toe/triple toe combinations. What I'd love to see is as many women attempting triple axels as men attempting quads.

I forgot she landed it at SA, even if it got downgraded.

The thing about Alissa's jumps.. they'll never stop looking scary, I think :s

And god, rewatching that SA long program: lovely dress and all, but that music choice really was unfortunate. It depresses me every single time. There's some beautiful musical phrases in it, but overall it's just so so gloomy. I don't think it suited Alissa at all.

I also feel she shouldn't be on the world team next year, not when Olympic spots are on the line and the pressure will be enormous. But I hope she comes back with a new, beautiful long program and hopefully she can achieve *something* on the GP or a senior B.

Alissa Czisny plans to compete next season

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!

chuckm

feraina

Olympia

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!

brightphoton

silverlake22

R.D.

Jammers

macy

Jammers

mskater93

Pepe Nero

drivingmissdaisy

R.D.

drivingmissdaisy

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!

FlattFan

Match Penalty

mskater93

Trewyn

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