Hip Hop a choice for Junior Short Dance next season | Page 2 | Golden Skate

Hip Hop a choice for Junior Short Dance next season

CoyoteChris

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 4, 2004
That's it. I am too old. I am checking into the assisted living center and watching Laurence Welk reruns....giving up going to ice skating events.....since I dont like the hip hop/rap music, I can see that it is really going to affect my enjoyment of the Sport. A certain US Pair who I admire and will remain nameless this season did a skate to a great piece of music that was bastardized by being played on a steel guitar....I almost leaned over the boards and lost my lunch on the ice. If this is a play to obtain fans from the younger set, they risk loosing us old foggies...anyone have a spare "Depends?" I would like to stay up past 9pm and watch my DVD of D&W's
"Die Fledermaus" again....
 

dorispulaski

Wicked Yankee Girl
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Country
United-States
Chris, Don't look now: I hear they have Isabelle Brasseur advertising Depends in Canada. NK
 

pista04

On the Ice
Joined
Feb 27, 2007
The definition of hip-hop is so hard to pin down, but there are many types that could fit extremely well with ice dance and not necessarily be inappropriate. We studied hip hop and it's role in society and social movements here at the University I attend in Michigan and some of it could speak volumes and be adapted into wonders.

A quick scan of modern hip hop and you can see some beautiful potential in songs such asM.I.A.'s Bucky Done Gun....I mean, according to wikipedia even Nicki Minaj's Super Bass is "hip hop". Hip Hop doesn't need to be only the original beginnings, like Salt n Pepa. New generation, new style of hip hop.
 

Tonichelle

Idita-Rock-n-Roll
Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 27, 2003
Chris - hip hop is not a dance for rap. it can go with R&B and Pop as well... which is what we already hear in ice rinks...

I think Stephanie and Dai are exceptions to the rule, not a good depiction of what we will get with this idea for the SD... If I'm proven wrong then it will be a positive :laugh:
 

bigsisjiejie

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 22, 2009
That's it. I am too old. I am checking into the assisted living center and watching Laurence Welk reruns....giving up going to ice skating events.....since I dont like the hip hop/rap music, I can see that it is really going to affect my enjoyment of the Sport. A certain US Pair who I admire and will remain nameless this season did a skate to a great piece of music that was bastardized by being played on a steel guitar....I almost leaned over the boards and lost my lunch on the ice. If this is a play to obtain fans from the younger set, they risk loosing us old foggies...anyone have a spare "Depends?" I would like to stay up past 9pm and watch my DVD of D&W's
"Die Fledermaus" again....

Book me a room next to yours at the Home. Can I come over and watch your D&W DVD with you? I'll share my box of Depends...
 

Serious Business

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 7, 2011
There's no reason why one has to only like symphonic music or hip hop. There are many kinds of music we find completely innocuous now that were shocking, controversial and condemned at their emergence. Polyphony was controversial in Europe when it first emerged! Romanticism, too. Stravinsky's The Rite of Spring provoked booing and rioting at its premier, and a few decades later it's deemed safe enough for use in a Disney cartoon (Fantasia). Tango was (wrongly) derided as a brothel dance. Jazz criticized for being unmusical. Rock for being noise. And so on.

Look, I'm not saying one must accept every music genre, or that all of them survive the test of time. But by now, hip hop is an indelible part of how most humans conceive of music. Its rhythm, its ambulatory syncopation, its bass stab; the idea that the non-chromatic tonality of the spoken word can be leveraged, played with, then recombined with chromatic music; the idea that syllables can be stretched, altered, paced into flow and rhythmic texture; the record player as an awesome percussive instrument; sampling and looping previously recorded music to make entirely new ones, and many more revolutionary musical ideas have been turned by hip hop musicians into something that's catchy, popular, accessible and expressive. Hip hop has changed music theory as practiced by the popular consciousness. It is the most important evolution in music since rock and roll. You may not like most of what you've heard from it, but I guarantee you, some piece of music you like somewhere has been deeply influenced by it. And given how pervasive hip hop is, how it's been absorbed, adapted and reconfigured by almost every culture and every niche, there's bound to be some form of it you'd like if you gave it a chance.

For figure skating, a uniquely musical sport, to ignore hip hop would be a waste. I'm glad the ISU is making some effort to incorporate it. Just referencing the music alone is going to lead to interesting new ways to move on the ice. For instance, I think that turntablism (i.e. record-scratching) is the one musical instrument that provides the closest analog to skating footwork. I can easily imagine Kurt Browning's footwork from his pro years playing with that, if he hasn't tried it already. I would love to see ice dancers explore the use of edges to this percussion.
 
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Tonichelle

Idita-Rock-n-Roll
Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 27, 2003
For instance, I think that turntablism (i.e. record-scratching) is the one musical instrument that provides the closest analog to skating footwork. I can easily imagine Kurt Browning's footwork from his pro years playing with that, if he hasn't tried it already. I would love to see ice dancers explore the use of edges to this percussion.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QCapfwISfAU ??

Or maybe Kulik's Rock It Man? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8quRa2YB6Z8&feature=colike

SOI's Chair Men http://youtu.be/1nRKDHs3VTU (more techno maybe?)
 

CoyoteChris

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 4, 2004
Chris - hip hop is not a dance for rap. it can go with R&B and Pop as well... which is what we already hear in ice rinks...

I think Stephanie and Dai are exceptions to the rule, not a good depiction of what we will get with this idea for the SD... If I'm proven wrong then it will be a positive :laugh:
Toni, OK, what does "Pop" mean to you? Barry Manilow? I like him...did you know his music is being played in parks in Australia to keep out unwanted tough kids at night?
I guess looking at the ISU examples I am not seeing Barry Manilow.....but you did say something very interesting....at US events during wait periods I keep hearing "Save a horse, ride a cowboy."
That's pretty sexy...is that Hip-hop?
 

Tonichelle

Idita-Rock-n-Roll
Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 27, 2003
Toni, OK, what does "Pop" mean to you? Barry Manilow? I like him...did you know his music is being played in parks in Australia to keep out unwanted tough kids at night?

Barry Manilow was pop in his era, Pop is short for "Popular Music". It's not rock, it's not country, it's not R&B or Rap, it's just stuff teens listen to I suppose. Actually I think he might qualify as Easy Listening in any era. I'm not a Fannilow.

I guess looking at the ISU examples I am not seeing Barry Manilow.....but you did say something very interesting....at US events during wait periods I keep hearing "Save a horse, ride a cowboy."
That's pretty sexy...is that Hip-hop?

No, Save a Horse, Ride A Cowboy is not Hip-Hop, it's a Country Song, however you can do a hip-hop routine to it (in their music video they had hip hop dancers). You're confusing a genre of dance (Hip Hop) with a genre of Music... while there is a "hip-hop" genre of music (a mix of R&B and Rap is the best way I can describe it...) but in this case I think we're talking dance style.

:sarcasm:

I really don't see the travesty some people make Hip Hop out to be... http://youtu.be/emy9R7zxAlg
http://youtu.be/czcpQyI-MH8 http://youtu.be/nUhu3AhHwEg

The only thing I can't see working is the harder hitting/popping & locking, but I'm willing to be surprised... if not it's going to be really awkward.
 
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dorispulaski

Wicked Yankee Girl
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Country
United-States
The only problem with hiphop as an ice dance is that it will work best during lifts, twizzles, and a not touching step sequence---which is the SD outside of the blues CD sequences. The close holds during transitions that you should have will be tricky to incorporate.

I think of hiphop as single dancers or same sex groups, so it doesn't spring to mind that a couple would be doing it.

Here's what I generally picture hiphop dancing to be:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ccU3WSsTyNs

Or this cute 8 year old:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uUPSQYmZqZs

However, Here's the winners from New Zealand of an international hiphop contest.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmlpkoJZWYg

Here's the Poreotix from the US, who use a variety of music in their routine, check out the changes after the 4 min mark:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2u7zwDe4UyI&feature=related#t=240s

One thing you won't see in a hiphop routine-balletic posture, turnout, pointed toes ;)

I think it's a good thing the ISU picked hiphop-it makes the point that there are other dances than pseudo ballet versions of ballroom.

As Dick & Peggy agree in Stephanie Rosenthal's SP 2006 to Rockit, it makes for interesting footwork

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rnkku5aJzZM
 

slipslidin

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 22, 2004
Thanks Doris, I bow down to your ability to find interesting clips for us. I can hardly wait to see which junior teams actually use hip hop, and I'm trying to imagine the music cuts...hmm. It is potentially a sensational combination and feel much less anticipation when I think of blues and swing for juniors.
 

icebeauty

On the Ice
Joined
Feb 16, 2010
I agree with Doris about hip hop not being used in any touching dance sequences...
as a former dancer, the hardest thing about hip hop is hitting your movements on the specified beat, which means that on ice, you can't "glide" from movement to movement. It may be possible to use hip hop in a sbs step sequence, however that's take a lot of work b/c a lot of hip hop movement is about action/reaction and how the body moves in relation to a step into another. That's actually what make hip hop unique...no one does it the same way, which proves to be a problem when choreograph and want two ice dancers to look the same on the ice. Hip Hop in any-type of "close-hold" sequence (i.e. where they are moving across the ice together but doing difference movement) just sounds like a disaster waiting to happen. There's too many changes of directions and movement in and out (with your whole body) that having ice dancers dance close together will cause accidents even if they are not really touching. I think the best example of hip hop on ice is by far Daisuke Takahashi's SP form 07-08, but just watching him during his step sequences and imagine another skater doing similar movements across the ice right next to him...there's just tooo many places where one dancers could hit another/skates will get tangled.
I like the idea of "updating" ice dance...but hip hop seems like a tall order for junior teams if they want to pursue it.
 

nemequittepas

Rinkside
Joined
Aug 24, 2011
I would LOVE to see some of this style of hip hop translated on the ice: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tyG8Ex7aAng&feature=related

I find it sad that people will judge something before seeing it. Any style of music or dance has potential to be wonderful and beautiful, or even if it is ugly, but meant to be ugly, as long as it is felt and understood, that is what art is about. Of course some will fail at portraying something well, but for those that do it well, that is all that matters. I hate most modern architecture, but when it is well done, it can be breathtaking. To me figure skating is an art, not only a sport, and to be presented with more options to be creative can only be a positive thing, even with the sometimes awkward results.
 

gkelly

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
The trick will be how to transfer a staccato style of movement into gliding on ice. Those who can make it work should be rewarded.
 

Serious Business

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 7, 2011
If rock and blues can be adapted to ice dancing, why not hip hop? Rock and blues has far less of in terms of dance traditions and culture compared to hip hop. Hip hop has a vast and diverse vocabulary of dance and movement styles. A lot of which won't be applicable to figure skating, but some of which will be. A lot of the basic footwork in the toprock part of breakdancing could be translated to ice dancing footwork.

And yes, as far as I know, there's no big tradition of continued holds in hip hop dancing. But so what? That just gives skating choreographers room to make up their own. While it will require more imagination than it took to adapt the tango or the waltz to ice dancing, there's also no way to go wrong. Someone will come up with something that looks good, I hope, and it'll take off!

My only worry is that skating judges really aren't educated in properly judging hip hop. The memo that the ISU sent out to explain hip hop came with a bunch of youtube video links as examples of what hip hop dancing could look like, and I was pained to note that they were all from various iterations of So You Think You Can Dance. For various reasons, the hip hop done in the competitive numbers on those shows aren't particularly authentic, not remotely representative of the variety of hip hop dancing out there, far too brief, far too reliant on big, showy tricks and most of the dancers doing them aren't very good at the style. If this is all the primer the judges are getting on hip hop dancing then they are seriously missing out. The ISU should've started with the basics, like the toprock video I linked above. There are lots of simple but fundamental moves that would do a proper job of capturing hip hop dancing, but they won't be found in 30 second pop jazz numbers from a reality competition show.
 
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