At what age do female skaters peak? | Golden Skate

At what age do female skaters peak?

hurrah

Medalist
Joined
Aug 8, 2009
Mirai Nagasu
13-years-old: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_xSyRYj7HXc
15-years-old: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZgAiLcGiWI

Mao Asada
13-years-old: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cm5xsi9Ypu0
15-years-old: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bVedTmSzWwE&feature=results_main&playnext=1&list=PL79A24D36EB5E163C

Miki Ando
12-years-old: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fUfKLHiboA
14-years-old: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rc7FZGol7hQ

Yuna Kim
13-years-old: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xoh3PD7ECUw&feature=relmfu
14-years-old: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-6mBhkB47w
15-years-old: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lbn45S026_s&feature=fvst

Michelle Kwan
13-years-old: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hnVEfLmAuA
15-years-old: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=20JF_KVXYyc

Irina Slutskaya
14-years-old: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZy3dgNRrIw
15-years-old: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixbuNARSKEA
16-years-old: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b8cNMsn3GVY&feature=related

Midori Ito
13-years-old: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzBCpzw7vl0
14-years-old: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_T5EloMgjM&feature=relmfu
16-years-old: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4oZ-Judbac

Kimmie Meissner
13-years-old: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZPGMCjgsCo&feature=related
15-years-old: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Antcz4WpdU
16-years-old: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1VaoEWyBeQ

Carolina Kostner
15-years-old: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PT7LH6WYdQw
16-years-old: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TPBK-FkhOCg

Shizukawa Arakawa
13-years-old: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7dVd6N_0yRY
15-years-old: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rm5XTC6_YE8

Tara Lipinski
13-years-old: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wn34pAZqC9c
15-years-old: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZhIs6OIJ-I
16-years-old: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JEKDHCu5iYM

Sarah Hughes
13-years-old: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IfQRQJ6ZBN8
14-years-old: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R945UtwCKa4
16-years-old: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pun-ZjqUOLA
 
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brightphoton

Medalist
Joined
Jan 23, 2009
Sometimes I wonder why people don't consider figure skating a real sport. Then I see threads like these. -_-
 

hurrah

Medalist
Joined
Aug 8, 2009
Sometimes I wonder why people don't consider figure skating a real sport. Then I see threads like these. -_-

Given the emphasis on 'puberty monster' one sees in discussions, I thought this would be a good way to gain a more grounded perspective. In collecting Youtube files of famous skaters skating around the age when puberty monster strikes, it seems to me that some do go under after 15-16, but most top skaters reach their peak well into their mid to late-twenties, and this is something that is more so under CoP.

Actually, discussion of 'puberty monster' is relevant to other sports as well, for example, swimming. At 1992 Barcelona Olympics, a 14-year-old swimmer Kyoko Iwasaki won the gold medal in 200-meter breaststroke. And the Japanese public thought that if this girl could win gold at the age of 14, she was going to be unbeatable for the next decade. However, swimming commentators said that the only reason why she won was because she was not fully grown, and had a lighter and shorter torso in ratio to the length of her arms and legs, a condition which would not last for much longer. Sure enough, her winning streak did not last, and even though she did manage to compete at 1996 Atlanta Olympic, she placed 10th in 200-meters and did not qualify for 100-meter race. So this is a case when having a 'young' body helped someone get the gold medal in swimming. However, this is an anomaly and in most cases, swimmers who win gold medals are much older and are completely over their puberty and win their medal because they have reinvented their physique through arduous training.
 
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ice coverage

avatar credit: @miyan5605
Record Breaker
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Feb 27, 2012
We just saw ladies over age 20 rule the podium in Nice. Carolina Kostner is 24 years old; Alena Leonova is 21; and Akiko Suzuki is 26.
 

Poodlepal

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 14, 2010
I think when they had school figures, the age was around 18-20. It took years to master those figures. When they were gone, but it was still under the 6.0 system, in what many think was the golden age of at least understanding the sport (whoever did the hardest jump and didn't fall pretty much won) the ages went down considerably. Now that there is such an emphasis on deep edges and stroking, etc. the age is going up again. However, the jump content is going down, arguably. This year the winner didn't do either of the two hardest triple jumps, the axel and lutz, which hasn't happened in a while.

As a high school teacher, I see the maturity level of teen girls. I think what may be happening--especially in Mirai's case, I didn't watch all the other clips--is that after a certain age, the girls have to do a more "sophisticated" performance, with heavy music, trying to express sadness or desire or pain in their skating. They are adorable doing the younger, cuter music like the Nutcracker or Charlie Chaplin or whatever, but seem wooden and lost when they have to skate to the requiem of the sad violin. Teen girls of today--even the older ones--still have cutesy taste, at least my students do. They reach a point where they don't seem to like what they're skating to any more.
 
Joined
Aug 16, 2009
I think when they had school figures, the age was around 18-20. It took years to master those figures. When they were gone, but it was still under the 6.0 system, in what many think was the golden age of at least understanding the sport (whoever did the hardest jump and didn't fall pretty much won) the ages went down considerably. Now that there is such an emphasis on deep edges and stroking, etc. the age is going up again. However, the jump content is going down, arguably. This year the winner didn't do either of the two hardest triple jumps, the axel and lutz, which hasn't happened in a while.

As a high school teacher, I see the maturity level of teen girls. I think what may be happening--especially in Mirai's case, I didn't watch all the other clips--is that after a certain age, the girls have to do a more "sophisticated" performance, with heavy music, trying to express sadness or desire or pain in their skating. They are adorable doing the younger, cuter music like the Nutcracker or Charlie Chaplin or whatever, but seem wooden and lost when they have to skate to the requiem of the sad violin. Teen girls of today--even the older ones--still have cutesy taste, at least my students do. They reach a point where they don't seem to like what they're skating to any more.

That's a fascinating way of looking at the issue. I think it may help explain some skaters' "lost years" in middle adolescence. I also think of Michelle and how she was able to burrow into very sophisticated music almost right away, which might explain her extraordinary appeal and success. It makes me wonder what would have happened with Tara if she had remained healthy and continued skating. She didn't change much physically, but would she have been able to deliver a mature performance?

As for the body changes, I was thinking just this morning how ironic it is that the sport that people have most associated with female athletes, figure skating, for a while became a sport that a young woman at the peak of her strength and ability might be shut out of. Growing taller and stronger is generally an advantage in swimming (many female swimmers are almost six feet tall), tennis, softball, volleyball, and track--the sports that gained support and popularity with Title IX in the U.S. But skating (and gymnastics, but that's another story) was becoming a ghetto for prepubescent kiddies. If you're right about the fact that emphasis on edging and stroking and such in CoP might be pushing the age up once more, that's great. Not that I have anything against little girls triumphing in skating, but because I value musical interpretation so much, I'd rather see skaters who are capable of artistic maturity.
 

drivingmissdaisy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 17, 2010
We just saw ladies over age 20 rule the podium in Nice. Carolina Kostner is 24 years old; Alena Leonova is 21; and Akiko Suzuki is 26.

This was also the weakest field we've seen in quite some time. But it does seem like the judges are holding off on giving high PCS until the skaters are more mature. I was surprised at how low Polina was scored in Worlds for PCS. I don't think she's great just yet, but her PCS was baaaaad.
 

gkelly

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
I think when they had school figures, the age was around 18-20. It took years to master those figures. When they were gone, but it was still under the 6.0 system, in what many think was the golden age of at least understanding the sport (whoever did the hardest jump and didn't fall pretty much won) the ages went down considerably. Now that there is such an emphasis on deep edges and stroking, etc. the age is going up again. However, the jump content is going down, arguably. This year the winner didn't do either of the two hardest triple jumps, the axel and lutz, which hasn't happened in a while.

Agreed.
My knee-jerk mental response to the question in the subject line was "19," thinking back to the figures era.

after a certain age, the girls have to do a more "sophisticated" performance, with heavy music, trying to express sadness or desire or pain in their skating. They are adorable doing the younger, cuter music like the Nutcracker or Charlie Chaplin or whatever, but seem wooden and lost when they have to skate to the requiem of the sad violin. Teen girls of today--even the older ones--still have cutesy taste, at least my students do. They reach a point where they don't seem to like what they're skating to any more.

Could be. It's good to stretch oneself, but there's no reason to spend a whole year training and performing a program that you don't like and don't feel comfortable with. I'd hope that skaters could find music that they like and that also allows them to showcase their skills.

However, I fear that if the ISU decides to allow vocal music in freestyle programs after all we're going to end up with a lot of shallow pop songs that don't allow much room for interpretation.

As for the body changes, I was thinking just this morning how ironic it is that the sport that people have most associated with female athletes, figure skating, for a while became a sport that a young woman at the peak of her strength and ability might be shut out of.

The strength is not a problem -- big girls can cover the ice faster, often on bigger curves, and often can jump higher.
It's that pesky rotating in the air thing that's a problem. And fast rotation and flexibility for spins can also be compromised.

If you're right about the fact that emphasis on edging and stroking and such in CoP might be pushing the age up once more, that's great. Not that I have anything against little girls triumphing in skating, but because I value musical interpretation so much, I'd rather see skaters who are capable of artistic maturity.

Could be, and I hope so.
Of course, some younger girls are more musical than many older ones (Oksana Baiul comes to mind).
But I'd rather see the girls who are already good enough to compete at the top level at 16 have reason to stick around and become even better skaters overall rather than see them land a bunch of jumps at 16, take the medal, and leave the sport, only to be replaced by another crop of 15- and 16-year-olds every year.
 

silverlake22

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 12, 2009
2008 was far worse...

In terms of the actual skating we saw, yes, but I would say the field was deeper in 2008. It was just between Miki withdrawing, Mao with that dramatic fall at the start of her FS, Yuna bombing the SP, Joannie having issues in both programs, and Kimmie on a major downswing, the results and skating we saw were a bit disappointing. Had the contenders all have competed and skated well, it could have been a stacked event.
 

Poodlepal

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 14, 2010
Are they seriously thinking of putting in vocal music? I agree, there would probably be 10 people doing whatever "big ballad" was in at the moment (this year it would be Adele). Still, it would be something different.

Michelle was someone who was very sophisticated very young. Didn't she tell the tv guide that her best friends were all over 30 (she was 17)? She is probably the exception more than the rule. Sasha is another skater who was very artsy. You felt that she really loved that Russian peasant dance!

Oksana Baiul's signature performance was actually extremely cutesy. You don't see a lot of programs like that today, with the show tunes and the fake tap dancing. I don't know how she or Tara would do today, or Tonya and Nancy either, for that matter. Their musical choices are very different than what you see today.

Mirai is the main example of someone who looks like her programs don't suit her. I thought that may have been a problem with Kimmie (who seemed very tomboyish) and Rachael (although she had other problems as well, of course).
 

gkelly

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Oksana Baiul's signature performance was actually extremely cutesy.

You mean the free program? Yes. But I thought she did a better job with expressing each of those little pieces of music than most cutesy teenagers skating to cutesy music.

And her other two competitive performances that we got to see (1993 short program and 1994 short program) both contrasted in style, so that over the course of two years and three programs we saw more variety in musical expression than many skaters show over the course of significantly longer careers. (Kerrigan, for example.)

Still, I think it would have been better all around if she had been penalized enough for her technical errors at Lillehammer that she didn't win gold at 16 and stuck around to develop into a more mature skater without all the problems she ran into as a professional, or at least not while she was still in her teens.
 

Jammers

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Nov 4, 2010
Country
United-States
We just saw ladies over age 20 rule the podium in Nice. Carolina Kostner is 24 years old; Alena Leonova is 21; and Akiko Suzuki is 26.

That tells you the weakness in Ladies skating at the moment. Usually mid point between Olympics the new kids are challenging the older skaters internationally and passing them up by the next Olympics. But the younger girls still haven't been allowed to even skated at Worlds and its less then two years before Sochi. Compare that to Kim and Asada skating at Worlds the year after the Torino Olympics which gave them time to become the dominate skaters for Vancouver.
 

drivingmissdaisy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 17, 2010
That tells you the weakness in Ladies skating at the moment. Usually mid point between Olympics the new kids are challenging the older skaters internationally and passing them up by the next Olympics. But the younger girls still haven't been allowed to even skated at Worlds and its less then two years before Sochi. Compare that to Kim and Asada skating at Worlds the year after the Torino Olympics which gave them time to become the dominate skaters for Vancouver.

Yeah, I wonder with 2013 the last Worlds before Sochi, if the girls who are becoming seniors next year will have time to get their reputations and PCS up to the levels needed to compete with Kostner and... well I guess just Kostner.
 

hurrah

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Aug 8, 2009
Yeah, I wonder with 2013 the last Worlds before Sochi, if the girls who are becoming seniors next year will have time to get their reputations and PCS up to the levels needed to compete with Kostner and... well I guess just Kostner.

And Akiko, Mao, Alissa & Cynthia Phaneuf (whose PCSes are high, they just bombed technically this year), as well as well as Ashley Wagner and other seasoned seniors.

(And this is completely off topic, but can someone please tell me why Alena gets high PCS? She's not slow but she's not fast either. Her ice coverage is decent but not great. It's not like she has transitions. And her skating is not refined. But there must be something. But I don't see it.)

I think though, that when Sochi comes around, it ought to be Polina K who should be competitive as a senior skater. Her skating this year (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrF_OIKPA6g) reminds me of how Carolina Kostner and Shizuka's skating at the same age. It seems to me that she has the physique that would be able to carve deep edges while skating fast and also jump big. And also Adelina, if she can fix her jump issues.

But of course, with younger skaters, it's a huge gamble because they might just grow a inch or so during the season and you don't know how they will react to the pressure of skating for the home crowd. So maybe, when Olympics comes around, it might just be Alena and Ksenia (who in the meanwhile has fixed her jumps) who represent Russia at Olympics! Wouldn't that be ironic.
 

sky_fly20

Match Penalty
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Nov 20, 2011
there is a peak for every sport especially for women although not all,
generally ages between 18-21 are the peak time to be competitive in ones career like in figure skating, gymnastics etc.

but there are those who matured late in the competitive area but got better as they get older or late bloomers
like Kostner, Akiko, Shizuka, Slutskaya
these imo, have proven themselves to have lasting careers

(And this is completely off topic, but can someone please tell me why Alena gets high PCS? She's not slow but she's not fast either. Her ice coverage is decent but not great. It's not like she has transitions. And her skating is not refined. But there must be something. But I don't see it.)

I think though, that when Sochi comes around, it ought to be Polina K who should be competitive as a senior skater. Her skating this year (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrF_OIKPA6g) reminds me of how Carolina Kostner and Shizuka's skating at the same age. It seems to me that she has the physique that would be able to carve deep edges while skating fast and also jump big. And also Adelina, if she can fix her jump issues.

But of course, with younger skaters, it's a huge gamble because they might just grow a inch or so during the season and you don't know how they will react to the pressure of skating for the home crowd. So maybe, when Olympics comes around, it might just be Alena and Ksenia (who in the meanwhile has fixed her jumps) who represent Russia at Olympics! Wouldn't that be ironic.

I can definitely see Alena competing in 2014 Olympics, defnitely one of Liza, Adelina or uk will be left out
but Makarova ? :laugh:, if pigs fly, she just got passed on WTT and is now being assigned for B competitions
 

hurrah

Medalist
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Aug 8, 2009
Well, I was just being ironic, but ya never know!

Do you mean that you think one of Liza, Adelina or Julia will be left out? Not that anyone can know for sure, but I can see Liza and Julia being left out with Polina K., Adelina and Alena going.

I love Liza’s jumps, but she seems to have endurance problems. Even when she was little, at the end of her competition program, she seemed to be gasping for air and I always found that a little odd because little girls don’t usually do that, and I figured it was because Minshin was her coach and he was pushing her in a way that other little girls aren’t pushed. And then I got a sense of her poor ice coverage this year and so now, I figure she just doesn’t have the right muscles to skate at full speed for four and a half minutes. (They say you need to have the physique to run a 400-meter race.) Maybe this can be overcome with some serious cross-country training, but some people just don’t have the right DNA to achieve it, and my guess is that her body’s simply not like that (not that my opinion amounts to much). For what it’s worth, that’s my reason for not choosing Liza.

With Julia, I love her flexibility, but flexibility is worth only so much, and again, not that anyone can know, but I think with her, puberty might hit her quite badly. Julia has short arms and legs, and her torso, particularly chest circumference, is already proportionately big. And having well-developed chest is a disadvantage for skaters. I noticed that Brian Joubert was looking haggard earlier in the season and maybe he was trying to lose his upper-body muscles? Anyway, I thought his chest had sized down by Worlds and he did so well! So I just think that maybe she won’t survive puberty because of her upper body size, though nothing is for certain when it comes to puberty. All the clips show that people mature at a different pace. But, even if puberty doesn’t affect her badly, Polina, Adelina and Alena will probably be able to out jump her.

At the end of the day though, ice is slippery!
 

FlattFan

Match Penalty
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Jan 4, 2010
I think though, that when Sochi comes around, it ought to be Polina K who should be competitive as a senior skater. Her skating this year (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrF_OIKPA6g) reminds me of how Carolina Kostner and Shizuka's skating at the same age. It seems to me that she has the physique that would be able to carve deep edges while skating fast and also jump big. And also Adelina, if she can fix her jump issues.

Eh. They all looked tall and a bit awkward. Don't see any other similarities. Don't see Kostner's speed and flow. Don't see the ease, secure, and effortlessness on her blade compare to Arakawa.

Arakawa.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PgTivbUNKWI
 

sky_fly20

Match Penalty
Joined
Nov 20, 2011
Well, I was just being ironic, but ya never know!

Do you mean that you think one of Liza, Adelina or Julia will be left out? Not that anyone can know for sure, but I can see Liza and Julia being left out with Polina K., Adelina and Alena going.

I love Liza’s jumps, but she seems to have endurance problems. Even when she was little, at the end of her competition program, she seemed to be gasping for air and I always found that a little odd because little girls don’t usually do that, and I figured it was because Minshin was her coach and he was pushing her in a way that other little girls aren’t pushed. And then I got a sense of her poor ice coverage this year and so now, I figure she just doesn’t have the right muscles to skate at full speed for four and a half minutes. (They say you need to have the physique to run a 400-meter race.) Maybe this can be overcome with some serious cross-country training, but some people just don’t have the right DNA to achieve it, and my guess is that her body’s simply not like that (not that my opinion amounts to much). For what it’s worth, that’s my reason for not choosing Liza.

With Julia, I love her flexibility, but flexibility is worth only so much, and again, not that anyone can know, but I think with her, puberty might hit her quite badly. Julia has short arms and legs, and her torso, particularly chest circumference, is already proportionately big. And having well-developed chest is a disadvantage for skaters. I noticed that Brian Joubert was looking haggard earlier in the season and maybe he was trying to lose his upper-body muscles? Anyway, I thought his chest had sized down by Worlds and he did so well! So I just think that maybe she won’t survive puberty because of her upper body size, though nothing is for certain when it comes to puberty. All the clips show that people mature at a different pace. But, even if puberty doesn’t affect her badly, Polina, Adelina and Alena will probably be able to out jump her.

At the end of the day though, ice is slippery!

yes that's what I mean, I think it's very risky of sending 3 young skaters to the Olympics
chances of Alena getting one of those spots are actually high barring injury , despite people saying Alena is done, she has proven she is a fighter. Alena seems to be hitting her peak in her early 20's just in time for 2014 Olympics

I do think it could be Liza who will be left out in 2014 Olympics , her poor ice coverage as Mishin mentioned was she actually gets tired if she takes too much ice coverage this was in juniors though, the good thing is Liza knows her weakness is her spins and ice coverage and is working on it, Adelina could be a safe bet , she seems to be hitting puberty now and could be well adjusted by 2014, Julia too is in limbo, she might not go to 2014 because she is too young and still have many chances to go to another Olympics cycle but the judges seem to have taken an early hint of the successor to Yuna with her generous scores. Julia's jumps have actually gotten bigger now , only her 2A is a bit shorter in height compared to say Liza and Adelina's 2A , her spins alone racks enough points, and her body supports this, her frame is like that of a gymnast with narrow hips, if she stays thin when she hits puberty, she could have the frame of Yuna or a Rhythmic Gymnast only a bit shorter and will be of an advantage to Julia. Polina K. has all the skills but she is a bit of a headcase for now, I hope she can fix it, I would love to see her at 2014 Olympics

but as they say, ice is slippery and depending on their GP and World results in the coming seasons
It could be : Alena, Adelina and Julia
Alternates: Tuk, Polina K. and Shelepen
 
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Jammers

Record Breaker
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Nov 4, 2010
Country
United-States
For me it would be depressing if the top contenders for gold at Sochi would be the same exact skaters as we saw this year at Worlds. I want to see new skaters rise not the same old ones that we've been seeing since about 2004 and who have failed at two Olympics. That in itself would be telling of the depth in Ladies skating.
 
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