2012-13 Grand Prix Speculation | Page 5 | Golden Skate

2012-13 Grand Prix Speculation

NMURA

Medalist
Joined
Jul 14, 2010
I think Suzuki wants to do three GPs. But the JSF could ignore her request. I suspect that they don't want Suzuki to strengthen her position in the Japanese team and jeopardize Murakami's Olympic chances. Suzuki was held up in this season only because Ando was absent. If Ando doesn't come back, maybe a different possibility....
 
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Trewyn

Medalist
Joined
Dec 10, 2008
Does the skaters' federation have a say in the decision? It sounded like it was the skaters' decision.. But I could very well be wrong, I'm sure the federation has more power than I know. No idea what Suzuki wants.. Is it even certain she's going to compete next season?

Has Ando made any announcements yet? For some reason I can't picture her coming back, especially now Morozov has Alena for an elite skater...
 

mousepotato

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 24, 2010
Did it fail? Of the seven skaters that chose to do three, two of them are World Champions (Kostner, S/S), a further earned a medal (Leonova) and a fourth certainly cemented a higher position in the ice dance ranking (W/P). Brezina and K/S suffered, as did P/B (who didn't actually do three due to illness). I was rooting for it to fail, but I don't think that's an accurate reflection of what actually happened.

K/S doing bad at worlds wasn't because they did three grand prix competitions; it was because he had surgery 12 weeks earlier. They actually earned two golds and a silver and a bronze and the GPF.

What stinks is they won two golds and a silver yet only got 400 points, they would have done better doing two Senior Bs. It's really only a money issue at that point. It won't help the skaters any other way as far as ranking.

I think that's why more don't even bother, the ends don't justify they means.
 

chuckm

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 31, 2003
Country
United-States
When it comes to ISU ranking points, it DOES make more sense to do just two GPs and then do an International "B" or even two.

You can get only a maximum of 800 Ranking points (400 per event) if you do 3 GPs and win all of them. But if you win two GP events and then win two International "B"s (one in the early fall and one after Jan 1), you get a total of 1300 points.

Carolina Kostner has done International Bs just about every year, which is why she's always been 1st or 2nd on the World Ranking list even in her less successful seasons.
 

ryanbfan

On the Ice
Joined
Nov 27, 2011
The USFSA needs to stop treating its marquee events like local club comps and get some professional organization behind them. In this age, it's hard to find a club with the resources and the skills to take on the building rentals and other expenses of organizing a big competition with the hope of turning a profit somewhere in the future. Who has this kind of cash sitting around in their bank accounts? And then they have to have even more resources and skills to promote and advertize ticket sales.

What's funny is I applied for their Events intern position a year ago and I stressed that even though I was a Fashion Retail Management major, one of our major things in this field of study is events and that I took a class called Event Production (not to mention the 50 marketing classes...)

I still wonder who they picked over me, Nationals was a mess imo.
 

ice coverage

avatar credit: @miyan5605
Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 27, 2012
Don't know whether this announcement date has been noted in other threads:

"The list of athlete entries for the 2012 ISU Grand Prix of Figure Skating Series will be announced on May 21, 2012." Source: Skate America website

Two weeks from today!
 

chuckm

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 31, 2003
Country
United-States
It's been mentioned on another site that the ISU has done away with the optional 3rd spot for seeds. That's good news, indeed.

What is interesting is that now the GP selection comes BEFORE the Congress meeting in June. So what happens with the proposed new age rules (15 by July 1st for all Senior competitions)? Will Lipnitskaia (14 in June) be allowed to move up to the GP, or will she have to do the JGP again?
 

mskater93

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 22, 2005
It's been mentioned on another site that the ISU has done away with the optional 3rd spot for seeds. That's good news, indeed.

What is interesting is that now the GP selection comes BEFORE the Congress meeting in June. So what happens with the proposed new age rules (15 by July 1st for all Senior competitions)? Will Lipnitskaia (14 in June) be allowed to move up to the GP, or will she have to do the JGP again?
One of the other proposed rules is also no jumping from Jr-Sr-Jr so if she can do (and does) Sr GP, she can't do Jr Worlds...
 

ice coverage

avatar credit: @miyan5605
Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 27, 2012
... What is interesting is that now the GP selection comes BEFORE the Congress meeting in June. So what happens with the proposed new age rules (15 by July 1st for all Senior competitions)? Will Lipnitskaia (14 in June) be allowed to move up to the GP, or will she have to do the JGP again?

^ Will the new rules go into effect for the 2012-13 season?

Yes, from what I have heard.

One of the other proposed rules is also no jumping from Jr-Sr-Jr so if she can do (and does) Sr GP, she can't do Jr Worlds...


FWIW: I have ventured a look at the 138-page pdf of the ISU Congress agenda. Some of the discussion of proposed changes in age rules is on pp. 27-28.

I do not see a clear indication of when the new Senior requirement of age 15 would go into effect. [So chuckm's information very well could be accurate.]

Proposed changes in maximum Junior and Novice ages would be "valid" from July 1, 2014.
And the agenda also states, "To make it easier for the Members to adjust their training programs to the proposed age requirements, a two years postponement of the new age limitation for Junior Men in Pairs and Ice Dance and the Novice age is been proposed. Within that time the Members can update their training and recruiting programs."

(Amid the dry bureaucratese of the document, I wasn't expecting the bluntness of this line: "It is also embarrassing that a Skater can win the Grand Prix Final, but is not permitted to participate in ISU 'Senior' Championships.")
 

tulosai

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 21, 2011
It's been mentioned on another site that the ISU has done away with the optional 3rd spot for seeds. That's good news, indeed.

What is interesting is that now the GP selection comes BEFORE the Congress meeting in June. So what happens with the proposed new age rules (15 by July 1st for all Senior competitions)? Will Lipnitskaia (14 in June) be allowed to move up to the GP, or will she have to do the JGP again?

I will be bored out of my mind if she has to do the JGP again. Barring a puberty meltdown the margin between her and the others is so great (especially with Gracie moving to the GP) that it seems pretty pointless to keep her down there.
 

silverlake22

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 12, 2009
I will be bored out of my mind if she has to do the JGP again. Barring a puberty meltdown the margin between her and the others is so great (especially with Gracie moving to the GP) that it seems pretty pointless to keep her down there.

Well, I agree. But I mean, Polina Shelepen tore up the JGP her first year out then went on to do TWO more seasons on the JGP, and it hasn't seemed to have hurt her. Idk. I hope the rule doesn't change so Julia can do the GP, but if it does change, I don't think an exception should be made for her, and I don't think it would be the end of the world. There are always a lot of talented girls on the JGP, next season there certainly will, there are more girls coming up from Russia, US has a lot of good skaters to send like Wang, Jiang, Keiser, Long, Edmunds, Miller, Hicks, and maybe Cesario, etc, Miyahara will probably do JGP again and Japan always has strong girls. Julia would likely win for sure, but it's not like she'd be bored out of her mind if she had to do JGP again.
 

DianaSelene

Medalist
Joined
Aug 2, 2011
That is so annoying. Lipnitskaya won everything on the junior circuit last season and only got second at senior nationals. Why do it again? Plus, I think it would hurt her to do jgp again because if she wants to try for the olympics, getting her name out on seniors as soon as possible is important. Sotnikova and Tuktamysheva have already done that and it was a good experience for both. Lipnitskaya will get nothing out of staying in juniors.
 

chuckm

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 31, 2003
Country
United-States
When they debuted in the GP last season, Tuktamysheva was 14 and 10 months, and Sotnikova was 15 and 3 months. Lipnitskaia will turn 14 in June, so would be only 14 and 4 months at the start of the GP---that IS very young.

I think skaters get out of their competition experience what they put into it.

Lipnitskaia could work on the technical aspect of her programs while in juniors. At JW, she did 2a+3t+2t, 2a+3t, 3z, 3lo, 3f+2t, 3f, 3s. She front-loaded most of her combos, repeated 2a+3t, and did only one lutz.

At her young age, Lipnitskaia will have plenty of Olympics ahead of her. She will be 20 in 2018 and 24 in 2022. If she is really as good as she seems, staying junior one more year won't destroy her long-term skating career. And it is quite possible that she may experience the puberty bug in the next couple of years anyway, much as Sotnikova was going through this past season.
 

Trewyn

Medalist
Joined
Dec 10, 2008
At her young age, Lipnitskaia will have plenty of Olympics ahead of her. She will be 20 in 2018 and 24 in 2022. If she is really as good as she seems, staying junior one more year won't destroy her long-term skating career. And it is quite possible that she may experience the puberty bug in the next couple of years anyway, much as Sotnikova was going through this past season.

Wow. That really made me realize both how young she is and how long a competitive career can be if you want!
 

mskater93

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 22, 2005
A lot of you missed the no more flipping back and forth between Junior and Senior for the age eligible (the Dennis Ten rule). If the age rule for Senior events does not go into place in 2012-13 season but the no going back rule does, then Lipnitskaia's season would end (at best) at the GP Final.
 

Brenda

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 25, 2004
A lot of you missed the no more flipping back and forth between Junior and Senior for the age eligible (the Dennis Ten rule). If the age rule for Senior events does not go into place in 2012-13 season but the no going back rule does, then Lipnitskaia's season would end (at best) at the GP Final.

there are still Senior B internationals she could do. Challenge Cup got mighty popular this year; Triglav Trophy is in the spring too. and she could do World Team Trophy too.

Her season could also start earlier too. in 2010-11, Gachinski did Finlandia and Cup of Nice before his two GP events. Biryukova won Finlandia and Agafonova won Cup of Nice this past season...Lipnitskaia could easily win two Senior B's and rack up some World Ranking points that'll help her get into later starting group draws

Junior Worlds is more or less the only event that the no going back rule prevents her from doing...how much would it hurt her not to go to Junior Worlds? Tuktamisheva chose not to go this year, ending her season in January at the Youth Olympics. Since the Olympics require skaters to peak more than a month earlier than Worlds, perhaps Lipnitskaia may prefer having her 2012-13 season end a bit earlier and get more rest/a head start.
 

silverlake22

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 12, 2009
A lot of you missed the no more flipping back and forth between Junior and Senior for the age eligible (the Dennis Ten rule). If the age rule for Senior events does not go into place in 2012-13 season but the no going back rule does, then Lipnitskaia's season would end (at best) at the GP Final.

In some ways though, this is good, maybe it will encourage more nations to follow the Japan trend of sending different skaters (for the most part) to 4CC and Worlds so as to spread the wealth. I know USFS likes to ensure good results by sending skaters like Gao and Zawadzki to JW after competing on the senior GP but not making Worlds or 4CC, but in some ways it's probably best to give the younger true junior skaters a chance to go to JW instead.

In regards to the men, this is a little more upsetting though, because younger skaters generally don't have the same kind of power and difficult jumps as the older skaters who have gone through puberty already but are still age-eligible for juniors. For example, Josh Farris and Jason Brown are eligible by age to go to two more JWs, but if either or both chose to move to the SGP this coming season, which they honestly should after the results they have had and the scores they put up this season, they can't be sent to JW again, so the USFS would most likely be sending youngsters like Chen, who lack the power and maturity to get PCS needed to medal (I would assume, Chen is a phenom, but seeing Nyugen and Uno skate so well and place 13th and 10th doesn't make me too hopeful...) or older skaters who have stayed on the JGP due to technical limitations, such as Choate who has no 3a and would likely fair similar to Dolensky who only managed 12th this year, to JW and their odds of placing well are not nearly as good, and the US could well be down to 1 or 2 spots the next year.

I would hate to see Brown and Farris do JGP again if they truly want to move to seniors just because they want to keep their options open post nationals. If they do JGP, they could still be sent to Worlds (or 4CC) like Dornbush was in 2011 because they compete senior at Nationals, but if they don't make Worlds or 4CC teams, they could still be sent (and likely would be sent) to JW. I mean, if they chose to stay on the JGP because that is what they and their coaches think is best and have valid reasoning behind it (maybe Jason wants to try getting his 3a out, and Josh his 4t, in a less pressure filled situation), then that is one thing, but if they want to move up, I hope they do and don't change their minds because of this ruling.

I think if someone is young enough to go to JW and wants to be considered for JW if they don't make SW or 4CC teams, then it should be allowed, regardless of if they skate as a junior or senior during the fall international season. I understand not wanting a skater to compete at both JW and senior Worlds, but if it's JW or nothing, the skater should be given the opportunity for a post-nationals assignment if willing and age-eligible. I wish the rule was switched to just prevent skaters from competing at both JW and senior Worlds - if given the choice, you should have to pick. But the current rule is a little irritating and I wish they'd change it. It provides less incentive for skaters to move up internationally if they want to keep their options open. Josh Farris is as good if not better than Adam Rippon and Ross Miner already, he could well medal at SENIOR GP events, so I'll be a little bummed if he does JGP again just to keep his post nationals options open. Same for Jason Brown, I know he has no 3a yet, but he is ready for senior GP too, so I hope he moves up. The USFS needs the JGP spots for the young up and coming skaters, but they need skaters like Jason and Josh to help get spots at JW if they don't manage to make the senior World team.
 
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