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Thread: Ekaterina Bobrova & Dmitri Soloviev switch to Zhulin

  1. #46
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    I only see one option for Russia in ice dance when it comes to an olympic Medal and the russian fed knows it as well its I&K Elena is a classic russian beauty they are great skaters they need better programs more difficulty and confidence i predict the battle for the last medal will be between them and Weaver and Poje.

  2. #47
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    Worlds 2013 are in Canada and that will have an impact. Weaver and Poje will benefit and it will help V/M stay on top and maybe W/P could move beyond D/W or not surpass anyone and just move solidly to third over P/B or any Russian team. The big thing that has to be discussed is Russian winning medals and success in ICe dAnce equaling corruption. With teams at the top being from the US and Canada it presents a clean image while a Russian team presents corruption. It is seen all the time in commentary in the United States from Americans and Canadians. Canadians like Tracy Wilson or Americans like Judy Blumberg talk about the politics of the Russian federation moving and hyping I/K to the top- not anything with regard to talent. The ISU knows and judges know what a Russian team at the top projects. And if a North American team is displaced by a Russian team - forget it!! You are talking about Ice Dance in the Olympics being at stake. I just wanted to put that out there as being a potential factor in this discussion. It is far too late for judges to all of a sudden start giving a Russian team high PCS and GOE without provoking huge controversy.

  3. #48
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    I disagree here I&K have the talent to get good results without politicking, Tracy doesn`t normally get into those discussions.

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by gmyers View Post
    Worlds 2013 are in Canada and that will have an impact. Weaver and Poje will benefit and it will help V/M stay on top and maybe W/P could move beyond D/W or not surpass anyone and just move solidly to third over P/B or any Russian team. The big thing that has to be discussed is Russian winning medals and success in ICe dAnce equaling corruption. With teams at the top being from the US and Canada it presents a clean image while a Russian team presents corruption. It is seen all the time in commentary in the United States from Americans and Canadians. Canadians like Tracy Wilson or Americans like Judy Blumberg talk about the politics of the Russian federation moving and hyping I/K to the top- not anything with regard to talent. The ISU knows and judges know what a Russian team at the top projects. And if a North American team is displaced by a Russian team - forget it!! You are talking about Ice Dance in the Olympics being at stake. I just wanted to put that out there as being a potential factor in this discussion. It is far too late for judges to all of a sudden start giving a Russian team high PCS and GOE without provoking huge controversy.
    so this al about corruption ? well If you don't notice Canada is corrupt and even more is corrupt the United States !
    its not about corruption but it will when all along this was what you were thinking, so not giving chances because it is wrong and only favoring
    a selected elite group is indeed corruption. imo the Top 3 could be D/W, W/P and V/M
    but other teams have an equal chance of fighting for a podium finish including C/L , I/K , P/B , S/Z though B/S could be done.

    so it is corrupted had Leonova won and Tatiana/Maxim because they are Russians please I'd take them anyday than your boring Lacoste and Duhamel/Radford
    and what about Patrick Chan winning , many think it is corrupted, so does that mean Canada is corrupt ?

    ETA: of course, Canadian and American
    ( most North American commentators are a pain in the ears and talk too much borderline annoying ) better to put them on mute , they are NOT the voice of fair judgement, If you want go to Japanese, British or European Commentators
    Last edited by sky_fly20; 04-16-2012 at 09:19 PM.

  5. #50
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    Chan deserved to win give it a rest already if the other men skated faster and not at half his speed they might have a chance if he makes 3 mistakes in one program.

  6. #51
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    V/M and D/W will be fighting for gold/silver at the Olympics, and W/P and P/B will be fighting for bronze. That's how I see it. W/P or P/B will have to slip up majorly for either I/K or B/S to get on the podium. Yes, I said I/K or B/S, I don't think either of them will get dumped in Russia before the Olympics. It's wide open who the third spot for Russian is going to go to though, I don't know much about the junior teams so if I did I'd probably have a better idea. I don't see any current junior teams becoming Russian #1 in the next two years though!

    I think the Shibutanis will be more like a top-5-if-lucky-team.. the bronze was kind of a fluke in 2011 as many think.. I think they might even get overtaken by Hubbell/Donahue in the US at some point.

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by romanoff81 View Post
    I disagree here I&K have the talent to get good results without politicking, Tracy doesn`t normally get into those discussions.
    I thought I heard her say it too. It may have just been Blumberg.

    Quote Originally Posted by sky_fly20 View Post
    so this al about corruption ? well If you don't notice Canada is corrupt and even more is corrupt the United States !
    its not about corruption but it will when all along this was what you were thinking, so not giving chances because it is wrong and only favoring
    a selected elite group is indeed corruption. imo the Top 3 could be D/W, W/P and V/M
    but other teams have an equal chance of fighting for a podium finish including C/L , I/K , P/B , S/Z though B/S could be done.

    so it is corrupted had Leonova won and Tatiana/Maxim because they are Russians please I'd take them anyday than your boring Lacoste and Duhamel/Radford
    and what about Patrick Chan winning , many think it is corrupted, so does that mean Canada is corrupt ?

    ETA: of course, Canadian and American
    ( most North American commentators are a pain in the ears and talk too much borderline annoying ) better to put them on mute , they are NOT the voice of fair judgement, If you want go to Japanese, British or European Commentators
    I was mainly talking about Dance and not pairs or ladies. It's just the North American media is so strident and the skating establishments are strident about what Russian success in Ice Dance really means! All the judges are hearing this all the time. The Olympics being in Sochi is not going to all of a sudden mean a Russian Ice dance team will have the scores to meda!

    Quote Originally Posted by blue_idealist View Post
    V/M and D/W will be fighting for gold/silver at the Olympics, and W/P and P/B will be fighting for bronze. That's how I see it. W/P or P/B will have to slip up majorly for either I/K or B/S to get on the podium. Yes, I said I/K or B/S, I don't think either of them will get dumped in Russia before the Olympics. It's wide open who the third spot for Russian is going to go to though, I don't know much about the junior teams so if I did I'd probably have a better idea. I don't see any current junior teams becoming Russian #1 in the next two years though!

    I think the Shibutanis will be more like a top-5-if-lucky-team.. the bronze was kind of a fluke in 2011 as many think.. I think they might even get overtaken by Hubbell/Donahue in the US at some point.
    Why would Russia dump B/S? Look at their PCS among the judges! Still good to the astonishment of most! Everyone agreed in North America really how they had one of the worst free dances of all time and their PCS was still pretty good!

  8. #53
    Huge Scott Moir Fan Macassar88's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gmyers View Post
    Why would Russia dump B/S? Look at their PCS among the judges! Still good to the astonishment of most! Everyone agreed in North America really how they had one of the worst free dances of all time and their PCS was still pretty good!
    That is a gross exaggeration. There are many posters on this forum and other skating forums from all over the world who, while acknowledging that the program needed work, still enjoyed it more than the programs of say the Shibutanis. Anyway, their PCS aren't completely unjustified. Although she has poor posture, it allows them to get good speed across the ice.

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Macassar88 View Post
    That is a gross exaggeration. There are many posters on this forum and other skating forums from all over the world who, while acknowledging that the program needed work, still enjoyed it more than the programs of say the Shibutanis. Anyway, their PCS aren't completely unjustified. Although she has poor posture, it allows them to get good speed across the ice.
    I was exaggerating but it was so criticized! They changed her dress rather than change the program because changing programs is just a bad thing to do. They did change their SD in 2011 from Tom Jones to Chess but that was a SD. I think changing a FD is much worse. So they just changed her dress.

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by gmyers View Post
    I was exaggerating but it was so criticized! They changed her dress rather than change the program because changing programs is just a bad thing to do. They did change their SD in 2011 from Tom Jones to Chess but that was a SD. I think changing a FD is much worse. So they just changed her dress.
    Yeah, but all their costume choices this year were hard to justify. They were unflattering to the skaters,( the worst thing you can say about a skating costume ) and did nothing to help express the music. I still have hope for this couple, they make some beautiful shapes together, and they have some chemistry going for them. Am I the only one who preferred their first SD last year?

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Macassar88 View Post
    That is a gross exaggeration. There are many posters on this forum and other skating forums from all over the world who, while acknowledging that the program needed work, still enjoyed it more than the programs of say the Shibutanis. Anyway, their PCS aren't completely unjustified. Although she has poor posture, it allows them to get good speed across the ice.
    Their PCS is most definitely justified but what does need work, other than her posture and their programs, is their sloppiness in the steps. While I have enjoyed some of their OD's/SD's, their FD have all looked like something right out of the 1980's - lots of drama and grimacing, light on the skating.

    Sadly, Russian posters close to the team have said that their coaches tell them everything is great and that they aren't winning because of politiks. So nothing is being done to address the real issues that keep them off the podium.

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    Quote Originally Posted by slipslidin View Post
    Yeah, but all their costume choices this year were hard to justify. They were unflattering to the skaters,( the worst thing you can say about a skating costume ) and did nothing to help express the music. I still have hope for this couple, they make some beautiful shapes together, and they have some chemistry going for them. Am I the only one who preferred their first SD last year?
    I liked Delilah! Most people were like "Tom Jones? Why?" But I did not care about that. But others said they were skating to the singing not the music- and they were but I did not find that so bad. But many saw it as incorrect. Lyrics are allowed so skate the voice and not the music. They were so criticized for that and changed and with the FD they were again criticized but didn't change. There is just intense critisicm of them every season. But it's their fault. They do not follow what is modern in ice dance. They get good lelvels sometimes and respectable PCS but all their programs are wrong and all their costumes are wrong and they need to find better coaches or the coaches need to be better and look and follow Camerlengo and Krylova or S/Z and allowed themselves to be taught by them and probably go to Detroit and the modern center of Ice Dance.

  13. #58
    Constable , Costume Police colleen o'neill's Avatar
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    I liked Delilah, too. It had a nice flow..and, hey, it was really a waltz... refreshing , when so many were bending other time signatures every which way. Maybe some English speakers couldn't get over the lyrics , but I found I could quite ignore them after seeing it a second time. Her costume was pretty ,if not the most fabulous thing you'd ever seen... Chess was a real come-down for me. The music wasn't half as dancey , and the costumes were overly dramatic, unflattering , and distracting..for my taste

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    Going to Zhulin may have improved them somewhat but when he had both P/B and I/K he gave pretty good stuff to P/B but horrible things to I/K which included giving Illynik a tutu that made it difficult for I/K to skate close together which is demanded. So his judgment with that was really awful and bad and it affected the Russian team and not the French team which may have to do with Russian federation factors. And his work the past season with the Azerbajaini was old style.

  15. #60
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    I always thought he gave I&K the tutu exactly because they skated far apart, and the tutu was an excuse for it. It was a good cover up for a problem, like having Bobrova skate as a demon for Faust, so that funky posture was just part of the show.

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