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Thread: Ekaterina Bobrova & Dmitri Soloviev switch to Zhulin

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by gmyers View Post
    Russia is not going to have any medalists in Ice Dance in Sochi. Maybe if there is a mistake made by a couple of teams! It would have to be OD 2006 again and it not effect a Russian couple. Because Gold is obviously DW or VM and P/B are there. Then you have possibles in W/P and still S/S even with 2012 worlds.
    Also C/L. I thought they should have beaten I/K in the FD at Worlds this season, it was VERY close as is, but they skated with so much emotion in that FD, there was really no comparison, had the skate order been switched, I'm sure C/L would have come out ahead.

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    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    C&L should have beaten I&K in the SD. By more than they lost by in the FD. I&K's rhumba was not particularly good, and it hasn't been good all season. I&K were faster than C&L, but there was little there there in the SD.

    Here's the British Eurosport guys on the I&K's SD
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mMdAcQuCtFM

    and C&L's SD
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MW1RwX_jY8s


    and B&S's SD
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-L6gcxawS0

    It was so sad about the fall, because before that, they were really doing the best I've seen them do an SD, and they were clearly better than I&K up to that point, IMO.

  3. #18
    Huge Scott Moir Fan Macassar88's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dorispulaski View Post
    C&L should have beaten I&K in the SD. By more than they lost by in the FD. I&K's rhumba was not particularly good, and it hasn't been good all season. I&K were faster than C&L, but there was little there there in the SD.

    Here's the British Eurosport guys on the I&K's SD
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mMdAcQuCtFM

    and C&L's SD
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MW1RwX_jY8s


    and B&S's SD
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-L6gcxawS0

    It was so sad about the fall, because before that, they were really doing the best I've seen them do an SD, and they were clearly better than I&K up to that point, IMO.
    The thing that surprised me about Bobrova and Soloviev that day besides the fall was that they got much lower levels than they normally do. I thought that their Rhumba was much better than normal, but they got lower levels than they had all year. Also, they had great twizzles, but they only got level 3 on them.
    They really need to focus on getting their levels higher regardless of who they're working with next year. Otherwise they will have no shot at getting back to Russian number 1 status and being a threat for podiums.

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    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    There were some very funny things going on that day for technical levels for all the skaters. And some surprisingly low GOEs on the rhumba, based on the marks that the same teams had been getting all season, as well.

    Some of it may have been due to the bad quality of the ice. I have heard, but don't know, that typically the Russians keep their ice at home on the hard side, and the ice at Nice was not uniform, and rather soft in spots. That might affect all the Russian skaters badly, and perhaps even worse than other teams; furthermore the ice was bad at Nice the last time Worlds was at Nice.

    There should have been a Senior B scheduled there as a qualifier for having Worlds, perhaps, for Nice to demonstrate that they can produce a high quality ice sheet? The kids train all year, and they deserve to strut their stuff on good ice.
    Last edited by dorispulaski; 04-15-2012 at 08:58 PM.

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    Eh, B/S had lower levels at CoR. They're spotty skaters, level wise.

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    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    I think it is more fair to say their technique is marginal, and that if they have an easy panel they do better, and a tough panel, worse. However, marginal technique is even harder to maintain on lousy ice. And no team should have to put up with it, particularly if the ISU knows that the loc was not great before.

    The ISU has made this sort of mistake before with the unheated Swiss venue for Europeans last year.
    http://www.1310news.com/sports/artic...-european-rink

    They don't properly vet the venues.

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    Good point also about C&L! They are right in the mix and can easily beat any Russian team. The thing about the B/S coaches is the view that they really think levels are just whatever the caller says they are so there is no need to try to find some kind of way of getting level 4. Just do whatever you have the best you can and campaign it as level 4 and it that's what it will be. Plus you have the programs issue for PCS. There is just nothing that is working now. Any idea that any Russian team will have both tech and PCS in Sochi is laughable. The tech is a huge problem and with PCS it's not like at the Olympics any Russian team will have V/M or D/W PCS. Even P/B PCS would be a big stretch.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gmyers View Post
    Russia is not going to have any medalists in Ice Dance in Sochi. Maybe if there is a mistake made by a couple of teams! It would have to be OD 2006 again and it not effect a Russian couple. Because Gold is obviously DW or VM and P/B are there. Then you have possibles in W/P and still S/S even with 2012 worlds.
    The only team certain to medal in Sochi is V/M. I see D/W as vurnerable to falling off the podium by then but still a strong possability of course. P/B are likely to fall off the podium by then, but also a possability. W/P have a good shot to medal by Sochi if they keep on their current track. The Russians definitely could have 1 or 2 teams with a real medal shot by Sochi, just certain B/S wont be one of them. I also dont think the Shibutanis will be anywhere near the podium again until after 2014.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ImaginaryPogue View Post
    Heh. Honestly, I don't think they're gonna be THAT far off the pack. The big three Russian teams all struggle with levels. B/S still have higher PCS than I/K and R/T. Zhulin's great for teaching technique and that would've improved B/S. Great technique means stronger chance of levels, and that alone could've made the difference for them, along with more strongly accepted programs. Sinitsina/Zhiganshin are riding a huge wave of hype, but that's all it is. Monko/Khaliavin are question marks after missing last season.

    Anyway, I think B/S at Zhulin, I/K with Morosov and R/T at Shpilband/Zoueva (still a question mark), Russian dance would've been less insular and more interesting.
    B/S are done, no matter who coaches them (and Zhulin is definitely not advantageous at this point anyway). I/K already passed them at Worlds and will be favored by then over the Russian fed. next season. I am sure of it. I also fully expect S/Z to pass them next season and be pushing I/K for the Russian #1 soon. They arent just hype, they are already technically superior to a team like B/S and they are only juniors. B/S were only ever Russian #1 for awhile due to seniority and they have proven nothing. They couldnt even medal on home ice over a team like the Shibutanis and last year continued to tread water at best. Maybe the Russians arent that far off the pack but if by some miracle B/S continue as their #1 they are.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pangtongfan View Post
    The only team certain to medal in Sochi is V/M. I see D/W as vurnerable to falling off the podium by then but still a strong possability of course. P/B are likely to fall off the podium by then, but also a possability. W/P have a good shot to medal by Sochi if they keep on their current track. The Russians definitely could have 1 or 2 teams with a real medal shot by Sochi, just certain B/S wont be one of them. I also dont think the Shibutanis will be anywhere near the podium again until after 2014.
    D/W didn't even fall behind P/B at a worlds in France. There was some potential in the SD but it didn't even happen there! Then in the Free Dance it was same old D/W and V/M total domination with no team allowed to be even a little close to them. That only leaves bronze and right now no Russian team can even pull that off or get close. Even if you look at 4th places it was not even a Russian team. Can't get near medaling. 2012-2013 season will have to see a Russian team with the ability to get levels and PCS consistent! B/S or I/K don't have that. It's only them and R/T has been to worlds but it's really only I/K or B/S and it's not going to happen or come close to happening. For the 2013 grand prix you are not going to see a Russian team all of a sudden have the technical skills or PCS to medal at the Olympics.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by gmyers View Post
    D/W didn't even fall behind P/B at a worlds in France. There was some potential in the SD but it didn't even happen there! Then in the Free Dance it was same old D/W and V/M total domination with no team allowed to be even a little close to them. That only leaves bronze and right now no Russian team can even pull that off or get close. Even if you look at 4th places it was not even a Russian team. Can't get near medaling. 2012-2013 season will have to see a Russian team with the ability to get levels and PCS consistent! B/S or I/K don't have that. It's only them and R/T has been to worlds but it's really only I/K or B/S and it's not going to happen or come close to happening. For the 2013 grand prix you are not going to see a Russian team all of a sudden have the technical skills or PCS to medal at the Olympics.
    I never said there was any possability of D/W falling behind P/B. I said there was the possability of BOTH being passed by some of the others, espeicaly W/P or 1 or 2 of the Russian teams. Of course P/B are much more likely, in fact I think they are likely to drop out of the top 3. Nowhere in my post did I imply P/B would be passing D/W, but that both teams will be feeling the heat from other teams from behind.

    I recall before the season you were the one saying the Shibutanis were a lock to medal at Worlds, and were contenders for gold in 2014 so with all due respect you arent the best one to making predictions. The Shibutanis finished below both Russian teams at Worlds, and one of them skated horribly (the one which will probably only be Russian #3 by Sochi) so what on earth makes you think the Russians while preparing for an Olympics at home arent stronger contenders for a medal than them.

  12. #27
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    Would S/Z maybe be good enough to medal in 2014? Or at least be Russian #1 by then? I/K are only recently out of juniors as well and B/S are not doing so hot as of late. S/Z are really good, better than I/K as juniors IMO. I don't they can challenge V/M or D/W by 2014, but I can see them giving P/B and W/P a fight for bronze there, along with maybe C/L and another Russian team if they improve. Idk. Her posture is bad but everything else is fab.

    Shibs likely won't be in medal contention until after 2015, until then, they will be battling the Russians and C/L for 5th place IMO.

  13. #28
    Huge Scott Moir Fan Macassar88's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by silverlake22 View Post
    Would S/Z maybe be good enough to medal in 2014? Or at least be Russian #1 by then? I/K are only recently out of juniors as well and B/S are not doing so hot as of late. S/Z are really good, better than I/K as juniors IMO. I don't they can challenge V/M or D/W by 2014, but I can see them giving P/B and W/P a fight for bronze there, along with maybe C/L and another Russian team if they improve. Idk. Her posture is bad but everything else is fab.

    Shibs likely won't be in medal contention until after 2015, until then, they will be battling the Russians and C/L for 5th place IMO.
    Sinitsina and Zhiganshin are very talented and have a lot of potential. I could definitely see them on the podium in 2014 if they can get better packaging. If you watch them, they have very nice lines and have amazing unison. At junior worlds, they got level fours on everything except for their step sequences and one Cha Cha pattern which they got level 3's on. They got +1 and +2 GOE on everything except for their last lift in the FD where one judge gave them a zero. Their tech scores in the FD with one fewer lift were less than 4 points behind Ilinykh and Katsalapov meaning that with another level 4 lift, they'd be ahead. Also, looking at their SD scores, they scored 34.29 in tech, the same amount as Tessa and Scott. Even though the judges are more lax when judging juniors than they are with seniors, it's still very impressive.
    If they can get more interesting programs as seniors and keep improving (and fix her posture) they could be Russia's number one team easily. I'm hoping that they move away from Kustarova's group as she isn't known for transitioning her teams from juniors to seniors with much success.

  14. #29
    Custom Title Mattieu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Macassar88 View Post
    Sinitsina and Zhiganshin are very talented and have a lot of potential.
    If they can get more interesting programs as seniors and keep improving (and fix her posture) they could be Russia's number one team easily. .
    The problem with posture shouldn't be underestimated.
    Kustarova's teaching methods cause the posture problems.
    She actively encourages the girl to lean forwards in order to gain speed and to obtain a high leg line on the free leg.
    In good technique, the hips are kept forward and underneath you, creating a nicer overall line.

    This could explain why Kustarova's couples are successful in juniors and not in seniors, as essentially, she is getting them to cheat, which comes back to haunt them in seniors, where the poor posture becomes more and more exaggerated, as they need more and more speed.

    So basically, if you sort out the posture problem, the girl will be initially much slower across the ice, as she will have to re-learn how to pick up speed without leaning forward.
    Last edited by Mattieu; 04-16-2012 at 02:27 AM.

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    I was talking about D/W being surpassed. I don't think it's likely that any team could pass them. P/B were an example of a team that was in a position to even though the team is P/B and on the way out and people are saying all their medals now are for sentimental reasons.

    Shibutani's were so bad in 2012 worlds its not even comparable with 2011 Shibutanis which could compete for medals and did win a medal! The FD twizzle didn't even count! It was so messed up they didn't even do an element and beat R/T and if they did do a twizzle would have beaten B/S or I/K. If they had been their usual selves certainly medal worthy. But even not doing twizzles in the FD were better than R/T.

    The fact is that the Russian teams of I/K and B/S and certainly R/T do not have the talent to medal.

    Sinitsina and Zhiganshin are probably not going to even win a GP medal next season. They are going to medal the first time in 2013-2014 season? It's still Ice Dance. You need some time to develop reputation. I could see a singles skater winning Gold but not an Ice Dance team. You might as well talk about Monko and Khalavian or any other team but it's not likely because it is only I/K or B/S and they're not going anywhere at the 2014 Olympics.
    Last edited by gmyers; 04-16-2012 at 02:37 AM.

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