Patrick Chan Parts Ways With Christy Krall

[Mrs. P]

I have repeatedly pointed out the folly of such targeted rule changes which would most likely hurt some very beloved skaters of the proponents, if only ISU would be as foolhardily prejudicial and irrational. As a Chan fan, I always say, bring it on. Others will pay.

When proposals popped up all over the Alissa thread on how she should and could be prevented to compete at Worlds again with targeted tweaking of the US Nationals judging, I recognized the preposterousness could be equal opportunity.

The same line of logic also comes when there are rule changes thought to target BENEFIT for skaters. After the Ladies were allowed to do 3A or 2A for their SP, everyone was SO SURE that Mao Asada would completely steamroll the competition because she was the only one who was doing 3As. There were a lot of "this is unfair!" comments toward the "Mao Asada rule." Likewise everyone thought that Yu-na Kim would go down in flames because they reduced the number of 2As you could do in the LP. Obviously neither scenario happened.

[mikiandorocks]

My thought is this: figure skating is a language. Skaters are actors/performers. Choreographers are writers/directors.

If James Stewart stuck with Frank Capra only, we wouldn't have had Vertigo, Rear Window, The Philadelphia Story, The Naked Spur, The Shop Around the Corner etc. I will also point out, though, that Nichol's not merely Chan's choreographer, but was (if not is) one of Chan's listed coaches.

Exactly... Figure skating is indeed a language. If the message is not coming across then there might be something wrong with the method used to express it. Patrick has undeniable qualities yet so many think he is boring to watch... If he matches his technical ability with something extra on presentation he will become a totally WOW skater.

[deedee1]

I can see something like making the cost of a second fall greater than the first, of a third greater than the second, etc. I can also see factoring the fall deduction so that whole disciplines or individual skaters who start with higher base values higher PCS will lose more total points per fall than those who start with lower scores (instead of, as it is now, skaters with lower start values end up losing a larger percentage of that value per fall).

That's been always my preference on how to apply a penalty for multiple falls, when falls cause to distract the overall quality of the particular performace to the eyes of spectators.

[deedee1]

My thought is this: figure skating is a language. Skaters are actors/performers. Choreographers are writers/directors.

Summs up why I love figure skating!

[Olympia]

My thought is this: figure skating is a language. Skaters are actors/performers. Choreographers are writers/directors.

If James Stewart stuck with Frank Capra only, we wouldn't have had Vertigo, Rear Window, The Philadelphia Story, The Naked Spur, The Shop Around the Corner etc. I will also point out, though, that Nichol's not merely Chan's choreographer, but was (if not is) one of Chan's listed coaches.

Ooh, Pogue, I like that reasoning. That's definitely a good argument for skaters to try other choreographers, though I imagine the coach-student relationship is harder to switch around than the director-actor relationship. Examining it a bit...to me, despite what Hitchcock said about how actors should be treated like cattle, actors are more like collaborators with directors than students are with coaches. So moving from director to director could increase an actor's expressive vocabulary, whereas moving from coach to coach might affect a skater's technique. Though an actor might "learn" from a director, at the root of it, a good actor comes to a movie with the same degree of skill that a director has (just a different kind of skill). By contrast, though a skater may arrive with the same amount of talent as a coach, the skills are often imparted by the coach. The issue with a choreographer is different, of course.

But this makes for some very interesting speculation, Pogue. Thanks for the great metaphor.

[Tonichelle]

My thought is this: figure skating is a language. Skaters are actors/performers. Choreographers are writers/directors.

If James Stewart stuck with Frank Capra only, we wouldn't have had Vertigo, Rear Window, The Philadelphia Story, The Naked Spur, The Shop Around the Corner etc. I will also point out, though, that Nichol's not merely Chan's choreographer, but was (if not is) one of Chan's listed coaches.

such a fantastic script, and the casting for the film was spot on. one of my favorites.

[Serious Business]

You make it sound as though major rule overhaul specifically targeting Patrick Chan is a done deal. [...]

If the ISU chose to modify penalty for falling, I think it would be totally fair. [...] In fact, if it was up to me, I think the mandatory deduction on falling should be consistent with the number of seconds that was lost due to falling. [...] Or someone who fell 3 times like Takahashi at Japanese Nationals should be thrown off the podium no matter what and missed the World team as a result.

The bottom line is I find somewhat hysterical that you choose to characterize such rule change, if it were to happen, as being targeted towards Patrick Chan. I feel that's quite disrespectful. Whether you feel the result was controversial or not is your perception, not a statement of fact. Purposely repeating it here and elsewhere over and over as though it's true is simply quite unethical thing to do. Plus, everyone falls and Chan doesn't fall more often than other elite male skaters, all of whom have fell several times this season, if you add all the instances across their competitions this past season.

Oh dear, you've read way more into what I said than what I actually did. I was conjecturing, with plenty of evidence, on what the ISU will do. This is a prediction, not a wish or a prayer or a preference of mine. I don't have a problem with Patrick's wins in the last two seasons. Unlike you, I am fine with the deductions for falls as they are. The ISU has had a long and grimy history of ill-thought out rule changes spurred by controversies surrounding one skater or even one event. After a season with skaters and even high ranking ISU officials complaining about Chan's scores and results, culminating in Worlds where all the ISU bigwigs heard the audience boo the men's results for 20 minutes, changes are inevitable. It will be targeted specifically at Chan, and it will be done in such a way so that when retroactively applied, Chan wouldn't have won this year's Worlds. Lobbying me against such changes is pointless: I'm already against them and I have no say in the ISU.

Starting next season, it's likely going to be a lot harder for a skater to win a competition after falling. This will, of course, affect a lot more skaters than just Chan and have lots of awful, unintended consequences. But Chan is the most successful skater currently, and he is prone to falls. If he wants to continue to be successful, he will have to work on his focus and consistency in uprightness.

[hurrah]

Oh dear, you've read way more into what I said than what I actually did. I was conjecturing, with plenty of evidence, on what the ISU will do. This is a prediction, not a wish or a prayer or a preference of mine. I don't have a problem with Patrick's wins in the last two seasons. Unlike you, I am fine with the deductions for falls as they are. The ISU has had a long and grimy history of ill-thought out rule changes spurred by controversies surrounding one skater or even one event. After a season with skaters and even high ranking ISU officials complaining about Chan's scores and results, culminating in Worlds where all the ISU bigwigs heard the audience boo the men's results for 20 minutes, changes are inevitable. It will be targeted specifically at Chan, and it will be done in such a way so that when retroactively applied, Chan wouldn't have won this year's Worlds. Lobbying me against such changes is pointless: I'm already against them and I have no say in the ISU.

Starting next season, it's likely going to be a lot harder for a skater to win a competition after falling. This will, of course, affect a lot more skaters than just Chan and have lots of awful, unintended consequences. But Chan is the most successful skater currently, and he is prone to falls. If he wants to continue to be successful, he will have to work on his focus and consistency in uprightness.

I don’t think people are complaining about the tech score but at the PCS score he got, particularly in interpretation and performance, so if Patrick can improve on his facial expression and performance capacity, it would do much to quell the criticism.

[Bluebonnet]

Whatever criticisms and insults some people throw at Lori Nichols, she is a proven champion maker whom top skaters flock to. Why mess with a winning formula? Unless she and Krall are a package deal. Johnson did take over Nichols' role as the artistic coach.

I would like Patrick to experiment with his ex programs and his SP, but LP choreography is too important to leave to someone less familiar with his skills and not the top COP expert that Nichols is, especially at this time of coaching change.

Like I've written in Patrick's fan thread before this coach/student parting broke out, Patrick has hinted the new direction, new choreography, and new quad, right after the Worlds LP: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WvbqTYh7G1E. Patrick has used Lori Nichol almost exclusively for 8 long years (Mr. Colson made one long program once for him). That's quite unusual lengthy time. One should think that has to end someday. Krall's resign might have made this inevitable change sooner than expected. But if this is going to end, now might be the best time - right after a season, and two years to Sochi. But who would be a good choice for him as a choreographer and/or as a coach?

[SkateFiguring]

I don’t think people are complaining about the tech score but at the PCS score he got, particularly in interpretation and performance, so if Patrick can improve on his facial expression and performance capacity, it would do much to quell the criticism.

So Patrick needs to improve his facial expression and performance capacity because "people" complain about his PCS? How are these criteria defined for judging by the ISU? Are PCS to reflect acting rather than skating abilities, even though judges, who are live audience, can hardly see the facial expression like screen viewers at home? And why isn't anybody else' facial expression ever scrutinized in PCS discussion?

It is the waxel that got "people" all riled up and it is used against his winning even though they can't complain about his tech score. Much easier to complain about PCS with criticism on "facial expression" and "performance capacity".

So some people just don't like his face. What can Patrick do about it to quell the criticism?

[SkateFiguring]

Can Patrick Chan's only skating coach be a modern dance teacher?

Karen Chan is quoted in the article favoring Kathy Johnson.

[hurrah]

I think a lot of fans (this was what I meant by ‘people’) were nonplussed that Patrick got good scores for interpretation and performance, and I realize that there are specific definitions for these PCS categories, but it was also pointed out that judges are only human, so they tend to give similar scores across the board rather than properly differentiating between the categories.
Patrick doesn’t have any problems impressing judges. He has problems winning over figure skating fans, who are more often than not watching figure skating not for him but for some other skater, and these fans are watching and loving these other skaters because they admire qualities of that skater that are not scored in CoP.
So yes, I think facial expressions, though I certainly wouldn’t want it to be put on, but use of his face to convey a wide range of feelings would probably go down well. Patrick does smile in his performances but most of the time, you can tell his mind is totally focused on his edges. Also, variety in tempo of body usage to express emotion rather than move to the tempo of the music would be nice as well. That’s what I meant by ‘performance capacity’.
Of course Daisuke and Hanyu and Lambiel and even Brian Joubert have it as well, but I was just watching Gachinski, whom I am attracted to, and he’s got that ‘it’ quality as well. And of course, Plushenko has it in bucket loads. Patrick is a great skater, I understand, but he’s like a CoP machine, and what he needs to do to win over fans or at least make fans of other skaters concede, ‘yes, he was the better skater’ is actually to show that he has a ‘soul’. I mean, I know intellectually, on a conscious level that everyone has a ‘soul’ but I don’t see it when he’s skating.

[Olympia]

such a fantastic script, and the casting for the film was spot on. one of my favorites.

I agree with you to the zillionth degree about The Philadelphia Story, Toni. Everyone loves Hepburn/Tracy, but Hepburn/Grant is such a splendid combination. When I was watching it once, years ago, it suddenly struck me that this story parallels A Midsummer Night's Dream, with Grant as Oberon (and the wonderful child actress Virginia Weidler as Puck). This film is froth of the best quality, and the last scene ("Good golly, why didn't you just sell tickets?") is delicious. The remake, High Society, is amusing enough, but it doesn't hold a candle to this. (Though I do love Celeste Holm.)

Back to figure skating, I don't think Patrick's facial expression is something I pay attention to either way. One thing I enjoy in skating is a flow of body movements, and to me most of the time, this is something Daisuke does better. Patrick showed his capacity for this flow in his exhibition skate this year, and if he were able to develop this capacity, it would add greatly to his interpretive ability. I'm not talking about how things are scored but by what reaches me. If this is what he's after by changing coaches, good for him; it shows that he's always looking to improve himself and doesn't settle for standing still.

[Bluebonnet]

If this is what he's after by changing coaches, good for him; it shows that he's always looking to improve himself and doesn't settle for standing still.

I think this is what exactly he is after. He is looking for challenges. This time it is artistic abilities. Unfortunately, neither Krall nor Patrick thought Krall could help more on this direction. That was the key reason for the split - painful but necessary. At least that was the impression I've gotten with the info we have so far.

Can Patrick Chan's only skating coach be a modern dance teacher?

Karen Chan is quoted in the article favoring Kathy Johnson.

Oh, God! I hope not! That is a scary thought! A modern dance teacher alone for a champion figure skater?! Patrick might soon find out that he needs a technical coach for his skating technics too.

[Boeing787]

Don't be so scared. Kathy will play the role of primary coach, but Patrick can still get help from other experts when it comes to skating. As I said before, Federer can succeed without a coach. So can Patrick with a modern dance teacher as a coach.

Looks like Patrick might indeed get a new choreographer, as implied in his interview.

Found this article on Kathy Johnson on FSU:

http://figureskating.about.com/od/da...thyjohnson.htm