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Thread: Any Titanic buffs on here?

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    Custom Title Johar's Avatar
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    Any Titanic buffs on here?

    Since April 15th marks the 100 year anniversary of her sinking, there are alot of TV programs about the event. So, is anybody else a Titanic buff?

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    and... World Peace! Tonichelle's Avatar
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    I have been since first grade. The only documentary that I haven't liked of the new ones is the James Cameron one that was on last night. While the forensic evidence was great, I got tired of the Infomercial for his stupid movie, and the way he talked like HE was the one that did ALL the research and is the number one EXPERT on the ship's sinking...

    and his political agenda after it was all said and done.

    Right now Discovery is doing something on the cruise ship catastrophie from earlier this year... still not sure I want to take a cruise for my 30th lol

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    I am a longtime Titanic buff as well. I love the era in general, and the ship's story is so poignant. One aspect of the night that is especially impressive to me is the actions of Captain Rostron of the Carpathia. As soon as the ship's Marconi man received the distress signal and reported to the Captain, he sped his vessel through dangerous waters (remember the icebergs) to get to the site while some passengers and crew were still alive. The ship that was actually closer was the Californian, but its Marconi man had turned off his wireless for the night, so the crew of the Californian was ignorant of the disaster. Anyway, Rostron had everyone work to prepare his ship to take on the extra passengers, and I think he even woke passengers up and asked them to be ready to relinquish their staterooms. His quick, decisive actions made the difference for hundreds of lives; the hypothermia would have killed them within a few hours more if no rescue had arrived.

    By the way, I just recently learned why the Titanic was called the RMS Titanic rather than the HMS (His Majesty's Ship) Titanic. RMS stands for Royal Mail Ship; it was authorized to carry the mail. So huge amounts of transatlantic letters, packages, and other material went down, and probably so did the employees of the British postal service charged with its care.

    Because of the importance of the ship and of so many of its passengers (including John Jacob Astor, who died that night), the U.S. Senate as well as British authorities held an inquiry into the disaster. Get this: the Senate inquiry started on April 19, mere days after the accident and even less time after the Carpathia reached New York Harbor. (Captain Rostron testified.) Here's a link:

    http://www.senate.gov/reference/refe...em/titanic.htm

    By the way, Toni, I know that Cameron is probably egotistical, but I feel I have to hand it to him that he did so much to popularize the event. I know that Ballard's discovery of the remains was big when it happened, but a lot of folk who wouldn't bat an eyelash at something in National Geographic had their imaginations kindled by that movie, which managed to combine a historical epic with a three-hankie weepie, a fashion show (one of my particular fondnesses being pre-WWI costume), and the kind of song that gets played at weddings for generations. I can't begrudge Cameron his time in the spotlight.

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    and... World Peace! Tonichelle's Avatar
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    I can with the underhanded way he does things. But I guess I hold someone to a higher standard when they demand I believe them to be the Almighty.

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    Custom Title Johar's Avatar
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    Our dumb cinema isn't going to be showing Titanic 3-D. They were going to but changed their minds. Morons.

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    and... World Peace! Tonichelle's Avatar
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    I'm glad they arern't. That movie is not historically accurate in who they villify from the crew and people. And it was Cameron's way to become rich off the ship using grave robbing booty for props.

    My favorite documentary was the last one I watched last night. Bob Ballard is trying desperately to save the dignity and resting place of Titanic and her victims. While never named I couldn't help but think some of his comments were directed at Cameron. There's a bill in congress and in parlament that's been lobbied and could be voted on this year to keep people from profitting off the looting. Ballard wants it policed, there's underwater robotic technology now that could be used to guard the wreck. The families of the Titanic survivors and victims are all backing Ballard in his fight, which I think should be the deciding factor. Many of the survivors when they wrote their memoirs or were interviewed many decades ago also came out and said they hoped that it was never found/or if it was that people would leave it alone.

    Too bad looters - and Billionaire Movie Directors who have the $$ to blow on digging up graves - can't honor the wishes of those who lived it.

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    Custom Title heyang's Avatar
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    did anyone else watch the dreadful ABC Titanic miniseries this weekend. On Saturday, it was 3 hours. Every 7-10 minutes there was a 2-3 minute commercial break. I only watched the 4th hour on Sunday for the sake of finishing. There were way too many characters and most of them unlikeable and certainly we didn't become familiar enough with anyone since each hour was dedicated to a certain class on the ship - 1st class, 2nd class, servants/steerage.

    While Titanic the movie is not historically accurate, I thought it did a nice job at exhibiting the class disparity - the story just happened to happen on Titanic.

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    and... World Peace! Tonichelle's Avatar
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    I thought the dialogue cheap in Cameron's depiction as far as the love story. Concept would've been good - and honestly could've happened everywhere... I watch certain scenes (I love Victor Garber as Thomas Andrews though Andrews was much younger... I will give credit to Cameron for not villifying or stupifying the man who designed Titanic. He did not truly design a flawed ship. Ismay and the other financeers thwarted the unsinkable qualities by cutting corners to cut costs. It was to be unsinkable in the scenario presented - had they followed the designs and used quality products... and to tempt fate by making such a declaration as to say she was unsinkable and then not have enough lifeboats makes no sense. The Guaruntee group of 8 men - all of whom went down with their beauty of a ship while the coward and president of White Star Mr. Ismay ran for the lifeboat - spent every last moment trying to save their beloved ship and as many people possible. That's to be commended and is in and of itself a beautiful love story of sorts.

    I remember reading one account where, I believe, Mr. Andrews did not want to go on the ship. He was tired and wanted to be with his family. However duty called so off he went. He consoled himself with the idea that he would go to New York and pick up the beautiful crib set he'd ordered for his new child. It was waiting for him on the docks when the Carpathia ( I always screw that name up ) brought in the survivors (Andrews of course died on board his ship, his last known whereabouts was in the 1st Class Men's Smoking room - one of the most lavish of areas). Tragic. Andrews had a brilliant mind for detail... if only he knew.

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    What a sad little detail. And then there are the Strauses. Isidore was one of the owners of Macy's. Mrs. Strauss wouldn't leave him there alone, so they put their maid on the lifeboat and stayed together on the ship, holding hands.

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    Custom Title skateluvr's Avatar
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    All last week, even the shopping channels had to do Titanic era jewelry-eveyone is now in on this. I thought that site was deemed a burial vault. The stripping and Russian subs taking the rich for 60,000 a head and then land on the ship, breaking and defacing is is disgustingly sad. Dr ? who discovered the ship in 1985 my Titanic year- could have claimed it as private by taking one object. He did not do it. Hindsight after all these years. See how folks would react to war ships that when down being pillaged for ww2 souvenirs-there'd be an outcry.

    It is a tragic tale of human hubris. Sometimes it seems God delights in showing men to be fools who claim somewthing was indestructable. All those pillaged treasures belong in a Belfast Museum for generations, should there be more generations.

  11. #11
    Custom Title Johar's Avatar
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    Titanic survivors who met terrible deaths:


    Dr. Henry Frauenthal - 1st class - Died March 11th 1927 - (aged 63) - Suicide - jumped off the 7th floor of his own hospital

    John Thayer - 1st class - Died September 20th 1945 - (aged 50) - Suicide - Slit his own throat and wrists in his car

    Annie Robinson - Stewardess - Died October 9th 1914 - (aged 42) - Suicide - She was sailing to New York on the Devonian when it encountered heavy fog. She became hysterical when the ship began sounding the fog horn as they sailed over the spot where Titanic sank, she climbed over the railing and jumped into the sea. Never to be seen again.

    Frederick Fleet - Lookout - Died January 10th 1965 - (aged 77) - Suicide - Hung himself

    Oscar Palmquist - 3rd class - Died March 27th 1925 - (aged 39) - Murdered - found drowned in a shallow pond

    Anna Peter - 3rd class - Died March 22nd 1914 (aged 4) - Burned to death

    Robert Spedden - 1st class - Died August 8th 1915 - (aged 9) - Car accident

    Helen Bishop - 1st class - Died March 15th 1916 - (aged 23) - Car accident

    Martin Moran - Crew - Died on November 5th 1913 - Crushed to death by coal

    Kornelia Andrews - 1st class - Died December 4th 1913 (aged 64) - from pneumonia (water in lungs)

    Charles Stengel - 1st class - Died April 19th 1914 - (aged 56) - from pneumonia (water in lungs)

    Daisy Minahan - 1st class - Died April 30th 1919 - (aged 40) - Admitted into a Sanatorium. Suffered from pneumonia and died from Tuberculosis

    Maria Nackid - 3rd class - Died July 30th 1912 (aged 2) from meningitis

    Eugenie Baclini - 3rd class - Died August 12th 1912 (aged 4) from meningitis

    Edward Buley - Crew - Died December 12th 1917 - (aged 32) Killed in WW1 - Drowned when HMS Partridge sank

    Reginald Hardwick - Crew - Died March 4th 1918 - (aged 26) - Killed in WW1 - soldier

    Daniel Buckley - 3rd class - Died October 15th 1918 - (aged 28) - Killed in WW1 - soldier

    Anna Wood - 1st class - Went insane and forced into a mental home in December 1914

    Archie Jewell - Lookout - Died April 17th 1917 - (aged 28) - He also survived the Britannic sinking, but drowned when the SS Donegal sank.

    Archibald Gracie - 1st class - Died December 4th 1912 (aged 53) from a diabetic coma. Haunted by the disaster his last words were "We must get them into the boats, we must get them all into the boats".

    Arthur Priest - Crew - Was onboard the Olympic when it collided with HMS Hawke, the Titanic when it sank, the Britannic when it sank, the Donegal when it sank, and SS Alcantara when it sank. He died in 1937 from pneumonia.

    Titanic deaths by unknown causes:

    Marie Spencer - 1st class - Died in October 1913 (aged 55)

    Maximilian Frölicher - 1st class - Died November 22nd 1913 (aged 62)

    Paul Chevré - 1st class - Died February 20th 1914 (aged 47)

    Franz Karun - 3rd class - On April 14th 1913 he narrowly escaped death 'again' when his hotel suddenly collapsed with him inside. He crawled out without a mark on him. He died in 1934 aged 61.

    William Peters - Crew - He survived the Titanic sinking and the Lusitania sinking. He later died in 1948 aged 62.

  12. #12
    and... World Peace! Tonichelle's Avatar
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    yes a lot of the survivors were unable to get rid of their survivor's guilt and committed suicide. So sad...


    And, no, skateluvr - there is nothing protecting Titanic from being looted/brought to the surface. Especially when people like Cameron have the kind of money they do (gee considering all his bellyaching about how the rich and the government do nothing to help the poor maybe if he'd stop throwing money into disturbing the final resting place of 1200+ people and put it to good use I'd actually start listening to his rants...). Cameron even denies that there are "evidence of human remains". While it's true bones are long gone, I think the shoes and coats and such can be considered evidence.


    Ballard left a plaque that begged for Titanic to be left alone when it found it. Claiming it the final resting place. Cameron and crew decided to ignore it and began looting it as soon as possible. Sen. John Kerry led the march though for Titanic to be protected from such acts (only good thing so far I've found out about him! LOL). As I said earlier, this is still being hashed out/voted on, but could be decided this year.

  13. #13
    Custom Title skateluvr's Avatar
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    Wow, i understand all the suicides. I often wonder how many (%) of the holocaust survivors ended it after struggling to survive. I suppose it dpended on who they had left. It is wrong that it not intl law that all ships sunken with passengers aboard be protected from pillaging. When the Kennedy plane went down Clinton spared no expense to bring them up, and I think most of the debris to keep people from trying to find bits of the plane. Some felt it was too much money spent, but I recall clinton saying the Kennedy family had made huge sacrifices, and that is true.

    The tabloids were claiming they buried Whitney with 500,000 worth of diamond jewelry. People actually believed that, instead of knowing there are laws todays to protect the rich or celebrities against grave robberies which were common in past lawless centuries. Common sense. I know little about Titanic-[I]'m impressed with your list of passengers and their demise, Johar. Do you study this subject? Titanic will forever hold the imagination above all other shipwrecks in the hearts of people.

    I recall seeing the black/white original version as a child and it impressed aand worried me deeply, when my mother told me it was a true story, and that many would have survived if not for the lack of lifeboats. I have this vivid picture of a man with dark hair looking sad and alone, as the boat was rowed away. I have no other memory of the original except understanding that the SOS signals were somehow not done properly, and the signals of iceberg were somehow not given or received.

    I think that film was respectful about the tragedy. Cameron certainly became awesomely rich to embellish the tale with the jack/rose lovestory. It is not a movie I go out of my way to watch with all the suffering. I would never watch it in 3D. I am not a Cameron fan as he was a cheater, though his ex became very rich too. I guess it is hard to stay faithful when so many women chase after you (your money). :(

  14. #14
    and... World Peace! Tonichelle's Avatar
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    Had the Californian had an all night telegraph operator, the Titanic's passengers would have been saved. The two telegraph men stayed until their room began to flood, I believe only one survived.

    The Kennedy plane crash is completely different for a number of reasons - if it had been safe to recover the bodies after it happened with Titanic I'd not argue that they shouldn't be brought up. Much like Pearl Harbor and other tragedies (9-11, etc). There are no bodies or parts of bodies to recover at this point and it's 100 years old. The families have all said leave them be. We know as much as we will ever know at what happened with the ship's sinking. The only reason people want to bring it up now is to make money off of it. That should not be their right/call.

  15. #15
    Custom Title Johar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tonichelle View Post
    Had the Californian had an all night telegraph operator, the Titanic's passengers would have been saved. The two telegraph men stayed until their room began to flood, I believe only one survived.

    The Kennedy plane crash is completely different for a number of reasons - if it had been safe to recover the bodies after it happened with Titanic I'd not argue that they shouldn't be brought up. Much like Pearl Harbor and other tragedies (9-11, etc). There are no bodies or parts of bodies to recover at this point and it's 100 years old. The families have all said leave them be. We know as much as we will ever know at what happened with the ship's sinking. The only reason people want to bring it up now is to make money off of it. That should not be their right/call.
    Senior Wireless Operator Jack Phillips died just before they reached Carpathia. He is a true hero and stayed in the Marconi room sending out messages to any ships he could. He had celebrated his biirthday on the 11th. Harold Bride survived and had to testify at the hearings. When he passed away his wife had no idea he had been on board Titanic.

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