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Thread: "Tatiana Tarasova outraged at refereeing of the World Championship of Figure Skating"

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    "Tatiana Tarasova outraged at refereeing of the World Championship of Figure Skating"

    http://rsport.ru/figure_skating/20120401/589082464.html
    Can anybody translate this article? It seems that Tatiana Tarasova is outraged by Chan's ridiculous scores. She will write to the ISU to protest it?
    You go girl!

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    If she doesn't like the result she should complain about the scoring system, not Chan's scores. The judges mark what they see and the computer tabulates the results.

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    Yeah! Lets get this party started. enlight78's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by drivingmissdaisy View Post
    If she doesn't like the result she should complain about the scoring system, not Chan's scores. The judges mark what they see and the computer tabulates the results.
    She should protest the rules, but what she going to do ask the to decrease the points of the quad or increase the penalty of a fall- either way chan would have still won, and this been happening for two years - why is she protesting now- '' for the attention''

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    Constable , Costume Police colleen o'neill's Avatar
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    Daisuke's skate was the most thrilling for me ,and I would have been very happy to see him win.

    But you'll have to excuse me if I harbour something of a suspicion that equally, if not more important in her noble indignation, is the ridiculous point she tries to make about I/K. They've long deserved to be third ? ( if this translation is to be trusted )..No. I would not be surprised if this was the real thrust behind her efforts. Elena is a beautiful girl, they are talented ... but they don't make a convincing couple to me ( and I'm not referring to the idea of romance between them ) There is no sense of togetherness. They may achieve that yet, but let them do it first . There are no marks awarded for promise.

    I agree that there needs to be adjustments to the system , and I'm sure there will be some. I hope they're an improvement. ( But most of all , whatever the rules or the system the judges should be identified with their marks , and I doubt we'll see that )

    ETA ..apparently things aren't necessarily translated the same way twice.. This time , it does look more like she was saying I/K should have been able to.. It's still a lot of shoulda , woulda , coulda. Other couples aren't standing still and they ( I/K ) have work to do. C/L are a much more cohesive couple , had far more engaging programs, and show no signs of not being able to improve... I think I/K were fortunate to be 5th
    Last edited by colleen o'neill; 04-17-2012 at 11:23 PM.

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    Someone ought to protest to the mods here the OP's title is once again misleading and false as the OP has done in the past.

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    Joubert undermarked. Excuse me for a moment while I ROTFL!!!! Joubert was in fact overmarked, it was great to see him skate so well for him, his jumps were very good that night, and the program as old as it is really suits him and he skated it with spirit and energy. Still with that totally empty choreography compared to other programs of today where did the judges pull those PCS out from. If he were skating anywhere but France the PCS would be significantly lower, and likely his final placing too. As for his TES, he cant manage higher when he never does the most COP jump layouts, and Hanyu simply has superior quality jumps and spins at this point.

    Takahashi on the other hand was vastly undermarked, and should have won the LP phase, the PCS of the LP phase, if not the overall title.

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    Quote Originally Posted by colleen o'neill View Post
    Daisuke's skate was the most thrilling for me ,and I would have been very happy to see him win.

    But you'll have to excuse me if I harbour something of a suspicion that equally, if not more important in her noble indignation, is the ridiculous point she tries to make about I/K. They've long deserved to be third ? ( if this translation is to be trusted )..No. I would not be surprised if this was the real thrust behind her efforts. Elena is a beautiful girl, they are talented ... but they don't make a convincing couple to me ( and I'm not referring to the idea of romance between them ) There is no sense of togetherness. They may achieve that yet, but let them do it first . There are no marks awarded for promise.
    What I understand from the previous post is that TT thought Russian skating fed didn't prepare( train ) I/K enough. I/K's talent has not been developed. Otherwise they would have been on podium. I don't feel that TT meant I/K should have been on podium with their current status.

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    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    Yes, that's how I understood it. And that she blames Alla S. for everything that has happened to Russian ice dancing in the past 10 years, rather than blaming politicking.

    She feels a properly coached I&K could be winning the bronze by now. Who knows? Maybe they should have been sent to S&Z

    However, that would require an I&K that would actually either work hard or have been coached or pushed to work hard, on the pattern dance parts of their SD's. Both their Golden waltz and rhumba were kind of subpar for the last 2 seasons. It should be remembered that they are very young. Elena is not yet 18, and as early as when they won Jr. Worlds, already people were talking like they were going to win gold in Sochi. That is a heavy burden to land on the shoulders of a young teen, particularly when the burden is as huge as the history of gold medals in Russian ice dancing.

    TAT and everyone else should cut them some slack. They are talented kids.

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    Post Tarasova : Joubert was robbed, Hanyu's Bronze was for being Japanese

    Quote Originally Posted by skateflower View Post
    http://rsport.ru/figure_skating/20120401/589082464.html
    Can anybody translate this article? It seems that Tatiana Tarasova is outraged by Chan's ridiculous scores. She will write to the ISU to protest it?
    You go girl!
    Google is your friend:

    http://translate.google.com/translat...4.html&act=url

    Since you clearly didn't read the article before posting as you were asking for translation, where did you get to write such sensational title without actually seeing the content? Also, the date of the article indicates it was written on April 1, one day after the Worlds.

    Summary of the article based on Google Translate:

    - Tarasova had serious concerns about the way the event was judged, which is her main complaint as opposed to any specific skaters

    - Tarasova inferred that Chan's win was largely due to Skate Canada's influence within the ISU

    - In referring to Chan losing his balance in his required step sequence in the SP, Tarasova described it as "literally lying around" yet some judges gave him +2 and as an evidence that judges purposely favored him

    - Tarasova seems to suggest that both Takahashi and Joubert are undermarked both she didn't go as far as saying that either of them should have won. She never made any reference that Takahashi should have won but she specifically said Joubert should have been on the podium but was robbed.

    - Tarasova felt Hanyu was overmarked and was gifted a Bronze medal over Joubert due to JSF's importance for the ISU and that's just life and nothing can be done about this even though Hanyu robbed Joubert

    - In Ice Dance, Tarasova felt the winners should have been Davis/White but she didn't explain her decision except some subjective compliments about the American Champions, neither did she express her disagreement as strongly as she did with respect to the men's competition, leading the audience to think she feels it could go either way but she prefers the Americans

    - As for Russian Ice Dance teams, she was exasperated to even talk about it and felt that the Russian Fed mismanaged their teams, even as far as citing Pissev's wife as the culpit, because a team like I/K are so talented that they could have been World Bronze medalists long before this year

    - She felt that advising Leonova to work with Morozov was the right advice

    - V/T in Pairs will learn from this close defeat and build for Sochi

    - Re: Gachinski, Tarasova thinks it's sad failure for the skater but refused to comment in details out of respect for Alexei Mishin



    I think this is a lady who speaks her mind and the world should pay attention to what she says as opposed to twisting her words and take them out of the context to create sensational headlines. I also think there are certainly ways to improve judging and learn from every competition. This past World Championship, the men's panel was a relatively inexperienced in the sense that some newcomers were at their 1st ever Worlds as ISU judges, including a representative from Turkey. There are definitely valid criticisms that Tarasova expressed with great insight in her usual passionate style. That said, there are always two sides to a coin. The results at Worlds are close enough such that given a different panel, it could have gone either way on many of the close contest, in Pairs, Ice Dance and Men's event. One thing needs to be made clear though Tarasova is merely expressing her viewpoints, she made no reference about wanting an inquiry from the ISU. In fact, she suggested that she accepts that politics will always be part of the game and no matter what she says, it won't change.
    Last edited by wallylutz; 04-17-2012 at 11:02 PM.

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    Joubert:
    Performance: 8.00 7.75 8.75 8.25 8.25 8.50 8.50 9.00 7.75 (Untrimmed mean = 8.31, median = 8.25)
    Choreography: 8.00 7.75 8.50 8.50 8.00 8.25 8.50 9.25 8.25 (Untrimmed mean = 8.33, median = 8.25)
    Interpretation: 8.25 8.00 8.50 8.50 8.50 8.50 8.50 9.50 8.00 (Untrimmed mean = 8.47, median = 8.50)
    Mean total = 25.10, Median total = 25.00

    Hanyu:
    Performance:7.75 9.00 8.75 9.00 8.25 8.25 7.50 8.75 8.00 (Untrimmed mean = 8.36, median = 8.25)
    Choreography: 7.50 8.50 8.50 9.00 8.25 8.00 7.75 8.75 8.25 (Untrimmed mean = 8.28, median = 8.25)
    Interpretation: 7.75 9.50 8.50 9.25 8.25 8.25 7.50 8.75 8.25 (Untrimmed mean = 8.44, median = 8.25)
    Mean total = 25.08, Median total = 24.75

    As both estimates of central tendency slightly favored Joubert presentation-wise, I can see why Tarasova felt Joubert had a better performance that day.

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    Tarasova likes Joubert so much. Joubert is like Yagudin The Second to her. She surported him whenever it's possible. I think her opinions are a little too much more emotional than rational. I wouldn't take them too seriously even though I love her.

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    I remember the days when there was real funny stuff with the scoring. For those of you not around, it was a lot like the general elections today in Russia. Thank goodness those days are gone and I hope that they are gone for good. Presently, I do not follow dance competition, but I do closely follow the Men's. I do think that Joubert skated cleanly and well, but Hanyu on that day (and I have a sense that he will get better) was in a different and better league. That is only my opinion, but I think that the judges' scores are defendable for their third and fourth placements. Watching some of the other competitions, especially the event in Montreal, Hanyu seemed to be underscored, but I only mention that here because I get the sense that this kid is not a one hit wonder and deserves more respect than is shown by these very public remarks made by Tarasova. There will be placements that each of us will disagree with, but as long as they are made in good faith and without prejudice, and at least are not so far out of the realm to be unsupportable, we should accept them without being publicly angry. Regardless of the placements, however, what did come out the men's competition was an indication that the 2014 Olympics has the potential to have one of the best fields for men's skating in a long time. All of the top four skaters are still improving and the results appear to have been inspiring rather than dispiriting to them all. And if there is not a better indication that the scoring at least had some merit, I don't know what it could be.

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    Welcome phaeljones. I agree much with your level headed OP.

    It is true that each of the top four Men has expressed their acceptance and gladness of their placement which represented their season's goal and improvements in their targeted aspects of skating.

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    Quote Originally Posted by skatinginbc

    Joubert interpretation: 8.25 8.00 8.50 8.50 8.50 8.50 8.50 9.50 8.00 (median = 8.50)
    The median is a more subtle statistic than it is given credit for. If we assume that these data represent measurement along a continuum, then rounded to the nearest .25 point, we probably should handle it a little differently in the case where the median class has more than one datum. The most convincing way to see this is to draw a histogram. We want 50% of the data to be above the median and 50% below.

    8.00 8.00 8.25 8.50 8.50 8.50 8.50 8.50 9.50

    The median is the 8.50 that is bolded, not the 8.50 that is a little less than that one or the three that are a little bigger. The class boundaries for the five 8.50s are 8.375 to 8.625. Since three numbers are below 8.375 we need 1.5 data points to make 4.5 (half). 1.5/5 = .3. So we need to split the 8.5 class, not down the middle, but in the ratio of .3 to .7.

    Median = 8.375+.3x,25 = 8.45

    Check: 8.625-.7x.25 = 8.45

    So Joubert's median for Interpretation is 8.45.

    Hanyu's median for Interpretation , by this method, is 8.125+.25x(2.5/3) = 8.33.

    This takes into account the fact that Hanyu had three data points in his median class of 8.25.

    Quote Originally Posted by skatinginbc
    Median total
    Adding medians is slippery sands. Better, if the are many categories, to say, One skater got a higher median than the other in four out of five components, or whatever. The old problem again, are we counting or measuring, Cop or ordinals.

    Even the trimmed mean suffers a little in this regard (what exactly do we get when to add them?) compared to the mean over all judges. Speaking of the trimmed mean, that 9.50 that Joubert got for interpretation stands out like a sore thumb. It is 2.34 standard deviations above the mean. Was there a French Judge on the panel? I think Skatefiguring had a point when he observed that Hanyu was the beneficiary of trimming.

    Anyway, all of these numbers are so close together I don't think any conclusion can be drawn. Mrs. T. liked Joubert. OK. So did I in 2008, but what do I know?
    Last edited by Mathman; 04-18-2012 at 02:03 PM.

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    Just remember only the judges opinion counts, folks (including you Madame Tarasova)!

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