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Thread: Gracie Gold will go senior in 2012-2013

  1. #16
    skating philosopher Mrs. P's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlattFan View Post
    The hype she got prior to Nat and after Nat was ridiculous.
    You can go back and read the SP thread after Nat. People were gushing "Tonya-esque" "huge" "Midori" on her lutz.
    My reaction was: No no no, she was just adequate

    Nothing's dismissive about what I said. She's the best going forward, but she's certain no Miki, let alone Midori, when it comes to jumping ability. Read my posts again, I didn't say I would put the other girls in front of her, right? I'm just afraid the US judges will. Why are you so defensive? Goodness.
    I don't think mskater93 is being defensive. She is just responding to your claim using the protocol sheets.

    I certainly don't agree with over-hyping a skater, but you do come off a bit dismissive of what she brings to the table.

    Come on, Gracie only has adequate jumps? You made a big deal about how small her 2A was, when in fact the judges scored hers as the fourth best of the night, just a touch behind Kanako's.

    And from where I sit she had great ice coverage on her 3F-3T. I hardly call the combo average.
    Last edited by Mrs. P; 04-19-2012 at 06:20 PM.

  2. #17
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    The combo was clearly not average.

    It was the highest scored element in this competition. Much better than average. Epic? maybe not.

    Gold: 3F3T Base 9.4 GOE 0.9 score 10.3
    Kostner: 3t3t Base 8.2 GOE 1.6, score 9.8
    Murakami: 3t3t Base 8.2 GOE 1.3 Score 9.5
    Suzuki: 3t3t Base 8.2 GOE 1.0, Score 9.2
    Wagner: 3F3t Base 9.4 GOE -0.3 score 9.1
    Silete: 3t3t Base 8.2 GOE 0.3 score 8.5
    Sotnikova 3t3t< base 7.0 goe -0.4 score 6.6

    Kudos to LaCoste for trying 3lo3lo which has a higher base value than 3f3t, but it was so underrotated that she only scored 5.4 with it.

    So, Gracie competed with the top 5 girls at Worlds here (Kostner, Suzuki, Murakami, Wagner and Leonova) and she had a better combo than all of them.

    Referring back to Worlds SP, there was exactly one higher scoring combo, Elene Gedevanishvili who did a 3lz3t for 11.10. At Junior Worlds, no competitor got a higher score on an SP combination.

    So that's definitely better than average.

    Good luck to her in the LP!.
    Last edited by dorispulaski; 04-19-2012 at 06:55 PM.

  3. #18
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    I do agree with FlattFan that Gracie will need help from the ladies in front of her to win. Even with a fall Ashley is just a bit behind Gracie, and probably Alissa could make an error and score ahead of Gracie. I don't think she is going to run the table next year. But I do think she is going to be a solid #2, probably behind Ashley. Difficult jumps can make up for mediocre PCS (as we saw from Flatt in the past) but she might improve those next year, especially once she gives up that atrocious SP music.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs. P View Post
    I don't think mskater93 is being defensive. She is just responding to your claim using the protocol sheets.

    I certainly don't agree with over-hyping a skater, but you do come off a bit dismissive of what she brings to the table.

    Come on, Gracie only has adequate jumps? You made a big deal about how small her 2A was, when in fact the judges scored hers as the fourth best of the night, just a touch behind Kanako's.

    And from where I sit she had great ice coverage on her 3F-3T. I hardly call the combo average.
    Still don't see what the big deal is. I was just disputing the hype that she was the next Midori Ito in term of jumps. Her jumps are just adequate. They have no weakness, but they aren't spectacular. You can look at Miki lutz or Yuna lutz and compare that to Gracie lutz and see there are a huge difference. And these two girls aren't in the same level as Midori.

    Is the state of figure skating so terrible now that you have to inflate "adequate" to "spectacular"?

    I saw her doing 2A along with several junior girls and her 2A was maybe 3rd best in that group. It wasn't good. So the talk about 3A is pure "hype"

    Her air position on that combo wasn't good. Ride out wasn't good. It was an adequate combo.

  5. #20
    skating philosopher Mrs. P's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by drivingmissdaisy View Post
    I do agree with FlattFan that Gracie will need help from the ladies in front of her to win. Even with a fall Ashley is just a bit behind Gracie, and probably Alissa could make an error and score ahead of Gracie. I don't think she is going to run the table next year. But I do think she is going to be a solid #2, probably behind Ashley. Difficult jumps can make up for mediocre PCS (as we saw from Flatt in the past) but she might improve those next year, especially once she gives up that atrocious SP music.
    I think it's pretty much established that Gracie needs to improve in presentation. As mskater93 said, it's not realistic to overhaul of artistry with weeks between JW and WTT.

    She does have decent skating skills/speed and transitions. The mark she will need to work on is the IN/CH/PE mark.

    Still 59/60 is a decent score, which what she's received all season long. That would have put her in the final group if she would have received the same score at Worlds.

    I have never been in the mindset that she needed to burn a hole in the world, but to show steady progress over the next few years.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by dorispulaski View Post
    The combo was clearly not average.

    It was the highest scored element in this competition. Much better than average. Epic? maybe not.
    The combo is average. It has high base value, but it's not a spectacular combo. The judges gave her appropriate GOE for that. You can't compare BV of one combo vs. another. Just like you can't compare an average 4T-3T combo with a spectacular 3F-3T.

    Hence, adequate 4T-3T vs. great 3F-3T. There's a distinction.

  7. #22
    skating philosopher Mrs. P's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlattFan View Post
    Still don't see what the big deal is. I was just disputing the hype that she was the next Midori Ito in term of jumps. Her jumps are just adequate. They have no weakness, but they aren't spectacular. You can look at Miki lutz or Yuna lutz and compare that to Gracie lutz and see there are a huge difference. And these two girls aren't in the same level as Midori.

    Is the state of figure skating so terrible now that you have to inflate "adequate" to "spectacular"?

    I saw her doing 2A along with several junior girls and her 2A was maybe 3rd best in that group. It wasn't good. So the talk about 3A is pure "hype"

    Her air position on that combo wasn't good. Ride out wasn't good. It was an adequate combo.
    There is a range between adequate and spectacular. I think Gracie's jumps fall in that range.

    If she was just adequate, she would receive no +GOE her jumps.

    The judges gave her +GOE on her jumps. Some gave her +2. That indicates the judges think the jumps was MORE than adequate.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs. P View Post
    There is a range between adequate and spectacular. I think Gracie's jumps fall in that range.

    If she was just adequate, she would receive no +GOE her jumps.

    The judges gave her +GOE on her jumps. Some gave her +2. That indicates the judges think the jumps was MORE than adequate.
    I have said many times I don't think she's as good a jumper as some WC. In fact, I believe I said she is better than almost everyone else who aren't WC. Only dispute the fact that people said her jumps are out of this world. You can be adequate and still are better than everyone else, right?
    mskater is so defensive about it. what terrible thing did I say about her aside from some very obvious flaws?

  9. #24
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    It sounds like we are having a semantic argument, then, and everyone is in essential agreement.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8Zmi..._h3kITWfnYk%3D

    Here's Gracie's SP from the Japanese TV broadcast; the sound is better synched.

    The one PCS thing that Gracie does nicely is punctuate high points in the music on the beat, something I appreciate.

    And her spins are already Lev4
    Last edited by dorispulaski; 04-19-2012 at 07:14 PM.

  10. #25
    skating philosopher Mrs. P's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dorispulaski View Post
    It sounds like we are having a semantic argument, then, and everyone is in essential agreement.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8Zmi..._h3kITWfnYk%3D

    Here's Gracie's SP from the Japanese TV broadcast; the sound is better synched.

    The one PCS thing that Gracie does nicely is punctuate high points in the music on the beat, something I appreciate.

    And her spins are already Lev4
    I agree we are having a semantic argument.

    I guess from where I stand, being adequate indicates that you are just "passing," i.e. you can graduate from high school. I feel Gracie has more than "passed" the jumping test. Maybe some more work on making it an A+, but I think she has at least an A- or a B+.

    Anyway thanks for the link; I'll check it out when I get a chance.

  11. #26
    Custom Title DianaSelene's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs. P View Post
    I think it's pretty much established that Gracie needs to improve in presentation. As mskater93 said, it's not realistic to overhaul of artistry with weeks between JW and WTT.

    She does have decent skating skills/speed and transitions. The mark she will need to work on is the IN/CH/PE mark.

    Still 59/60 is a decent score, which what she's received all season long. That would have put her in the final group if she would have received the same score at Worlds.

    I have never been in the mindset that she needed to burn a hole in the world, but to show steady progress over the next few years.
    I agree about the skating skills but she doesn't have that many transitions.

  12. #27
    Custom Title macy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlattFan View Post
    Still don't see what the big deal is. I was just disputing the hype that she was the next Midori Ito in term of jumps. Her jumps are just adequate. They have no weakness, but they aren't spectacular. You can look at Miki lutz or Yuna lutz and compare that to Gracie lutz and see there are a huge difference. And these two girls aren't in the same level as Midori.

    Is the state of figure skating so terrible now that you have to inflate "adequate" to "spectacular"?

    I saw her doing 2A along with several junior girls and her 2A was maybe 3rd best in that group. It wasn't good. So the talk about 3A is pure "hype"

    Her air position on that combo wasn't good. Ride out wasn't good. It was an adequate combo.
    have you seen the youtube video of her 3A in the pole harness? it's HUGE and her coach doesn't pull much.

    but anyways, i have to disagree with your statement about her jumps. i watched her at 2011 mids and her jumps were quite impressive. i'm not saying the QUALITY is up there with some of the senior skaters, but her jumps were very big.

  13. #28
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    Is it just me or does Gracie remind anyone else of Leanne Rimes?

  14. #29
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    Team Gold made the right call here, I believe. She held her own against this field yesterday, even if it wasn't spectacular. But as the freeskate is longer, I think that will be a bigger test. I will reserve further judgment until that segment of the competition is completed.

    As for other US women to "rue this day", well...why would they?

    Is it just me or does Gracie remind anyone else of Leanne Rimes?
    I wasn't thinking about it but now that you mention it, I can see a bit of resemblance.

  15. #30
    Custom Title LeCygne's Avatar
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    On another note, Gracie revealed her music choices for next season in that same IN article: Hernando's Hideaway for the short and "Life is Beautiful" for the long. Thoughts? I'm curious how Hernando's Hideaway will sound instrumental..

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