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Thread: WTT Free Dance

  1. #91
    Custom Title CassAgain's Avatar
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    I don't think what Scott said was that big of a deal, but I also don't think admiring good sportsmanship is being overly PC.

    [Scott] is joker, you can't take what he says seriously half of the time. Charlie White said as much after the GPF and given the two of them know each other so well, I think Charlie is probably far more credible than some self-claimed saints on internet, just my $0.02.
    I think this says as much about Charlie as it does about Scott.

  2. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wallylutz
    You can't force someone to like or dislike something. If Scott dislike this event, he is entitled his opinion. ... I guess I am not seeing the connection between disliking / not attending an event and being a sore loser.
    I think it was because Scott "hated the event" right after his scores were announced. When he wins, he likes the event just fine.

    Plus, don't bite the hand that feeds you. At least wait until you cash the check before you tell the event organizers to jump in the lake.

    Many skaters skip 4CC or never attend it because they think they are too good for it, wouldn't that be a stronger dismissal of the event being unworthy yet why no one ever called Michelle Kwan a sore loser?
    (?) If you decline an invitation to an event, you are not sore and you are not a loser. Why would anyone call you a sore loser?

    It's when you accept the invitation, lose, and then gripe about it that gives that sour grapes impression.
    Last edited by Mathman; 04-21-2012 at 08:34 AM.

  3. #93
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    Far more annoying was Scott standing around with a Grumpy Face for 2 days. I'm not going to dump on him for an inadvertent whisper that shouldn't even have been picked up in the KnC. Only today did he lighten up a bit.

    But Scott, if you hate the silliness of the cheerleading, ask someone else to be team captain. Megan Duhamel would have made a great one! She seemed to be having a ball.

    BTW, Charlie doing an imitation of Ashley's black swan emerging move was a hoot.

  4. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    I think it was because Scott "hated the event" right after his scores were announced. When he wins, he likes the event just fine.
    That's your interpretation. There is least a dozen possible ways to interpret what he meant, if that's indeed what he said. I wasn't there so I can't be sure what he actually said. It could very mean he had a very long season, starting with Finlandia, and this one just stretched an otherwise long season even more. Many skaters have expressed reservation about being "strongly invited" to another competition 2 weeks after Worlds and travelled 3/4 around the globe just for it, no matter the money involved. Frankly, that would be very understandable.

    Or he could very well be disappointed with the fact that Team Canada was 4th at that point and when you were the 2nd highest rank team coming into this game show, I am sure being 4th is disappointing to see. Olympians all have high expectations and elite athletes, no matter which sport they belong to, all want to win and be the best. No ones wants to see themselves in such a position. So he may very well dislike this event because how poorly skated it was for his team as a whole, after all, Team Canada had a real chance of winning 3 disciplines out of 4 here coming in yet with the women bombing and everyone except Pairs, all underperformed, I know how I would feel and it is nothing positive.

    What you are saying is you think the main reason for Scott's comment is because he lost. But, at that point when the comment was made, Davis/White has yet to skate and how did he know he already lose? Knowing you, you may wish to argue that he is sour for Team Canada's results - not necessarily his own unknown results - I am going to deny you that chance by reminding you at that point, the results of other 3 disciplines are still TBD and Canaidan women could very well have a huge comeback in free and totally changed the final result.

    That's why I think your argument is suffering a very obvious logic flaw here but it's not just you. Many seemed to jump to the same conclusion by ignoring facts about the said comment but that's o.k., righteous defenders of high morals need something to chew on, perfectly understandable as well, even if the sentiment comes across just a little forced...

    (?) If you decline an invitation to an event, you are not sore and you are not a loser. Why would anyone call you a sore loser?
    By the same token, someone who declines an invitation year after year signals he/she have very little regard for that event = dismissing it. One could say that's equivalent as saying I don't care or I hate that competition so I won't go. You may think that's stretching a little and frankly, I would agree. Yet, assumed Scott said: "I hate this event." He could very hate it for many reasons other than winning or losing because we don't know why he said that. And he may very well have the exact same reasoning as the said skater who always skips 4CC - he just doesn't care about this event - but instead is forced to come due to threats of ISU sanctions. So I am as as you are as to why that makes him a sore loser. If skater A who skips isn't a sore loser for not wanting to attend 4CC, then Scott can't be a sore loser for not wanting to be here either. Since the conclusion that some people came to that Scott = sore loser for "hating an event", then using the same flawed logic, one can equate intentionally skipping other major competitions = sore loser as well. That's how illogical that argument really is due to tea leaf reading, apparently, quite popular around here.

    It's when you accept the invitation, lose, and then gripe about it that gives that sour grapes impression.
    Once again, your argument would have been more plausible if he actually lost at that point but he wasn't. D/W could have tumbled, fell and tumble all the way below the French team. Also, with the final results of other 3 disciplines still TBD, he couldn't have known that Team Canada will necessary lose as well. So I am afraid I must conclude that the impression of sour grapes are merely your perception but it's safe to say you made a math error in your logic.

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    Poor guy. He says one stupid thing and everyone jumps down his throat. Yes, it was rude. Yes, he shouldn't have said it. But come on, it's not like he went to deliberately trash another team in an interview or making a fool of himself like he did at the GP final. It seemed the comment was meant for Tessa only, not the entire world, and that it was something he was saying in exhaustion/frustration. Had the camera moved 15 seconds earlier no one would have even known. I don't think it was a deliberate insult to the event coordinators or anyone else. Besides, we know he's over competative and a bit of a hot head. He always has been. It doesn't make him a jerk, just human. And calling him a sore looser is a bit misplaced since D/W hadn't skated yet and thus at that point V/M hadn't lost. Unfair to go crazy over one slip of the tongue and forget the hundred other times that he has been sweet and gracious. Especially in a sport where many others make a habit of running their mouthes off stupidly to the media on a regular basis and insulting everyone in sight in the process.
    Last edited by skatingfan04; 04-21-2012 at 10:28 AM.

  6. #96
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    Wally, I really think you should try to understand the difference between a "logical argument" and chatting on the Internet. There are no logical arguments in any of my posts.

    The question I was trying to answer was, why are people calling Scott a sore loser. I gave my opinion. I think it is because of the timing of events. Right after Scott and Tessa skated, Scott was all smiles in the kiss and cry with hugs all around. The moment the scores came up his expression and demeanor changed. Then supposedly he made a remark about hating the event. In my opinion that is why people had a negative reaction.
    Last edited by Mathman; 04-21-2012 at 10:56 AM.

  7. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by skatingfan04 View Post
    Poor guy. He says one stupid thing and everyone jumps down his throat. Yes, it was rude. Yes, he shouldn't have said it. But come on, it's not like he went to deliberately trash another team in an interview or making a fool of himself like he did at the GP final. It seemed the comment was meant for Tessa only, not the entire world, and that it was something he was saying in exhaustion/frustration. Had the camera moved 15 seconds earlier no one would have even known. I don't think it was a deliberate insult to the event coordinators or anyone else. Besides, we know he's over competative and a bit of a hot head. He always has been. It doesn't make him a jerk, just human. And calling him a sore looser is a bit misplaced since D/W hadn't skated yet and thus at that point V/M hadn't lost. Unfair to go crazy over one slip of the tongue and forget the hundred other times that he has been sweet and gracious. Especially in a sport where many others make a habit of running their mouthes off stupidly to the media on a regular basis and insulting everyone in sight in the process.
    If you follow ice dance at all, it doesn’t take a math degree to know that V&M’s FD score was beatable, especially since they were already several points behind after the SD. Training with Davis & White everyday, Moir also knew that the likelihood of D&W imploding was slim. He also knew at that point that the Canadian Ladies would not be able to score high enough in the Freeskate to pull the Canadian Team up to win the event. Moir has already shown signs of being a poor loser (i.e. Grand Prix Final), so it’s not a leap to suggest that that is indeed the case.

    Just because Moir is known as a hothead does not excuse him as you seem to indicate. And how many of his press/teleconferences have you attended to say he is always so “sweet and gracious?” There are in fact few skaters with as big a mouth as Moir. It’s just not good PR to insult your host. Moir is a great skater/dancer but his arrogance is not a particularly admirable trait.

  8. #98
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    someone's already posted a youtube clip where Scott said "I hate this event"
    there's no dispute of that fact. It was caught on tape. Japan paid big bucks to bring him there. He's an ungrateful little B. This is a guy who always acts like a diva.

  9. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by KKonas View Post
    If you follow ice dance at all, it doesn’t take a math degree to know that V&M’s FD score was beatable, especially since they were already several points behind after the SD. Training with Davis & White everyday, Moir also knew that the likelihood of D&W imploding was slim.
    Yes, we all know you selectively follow Ice Dance - apparently, you forgot about this recent event but let me refresh your memory: http://www.isuresults.com/results/fc2012/SEG008.HTM

    V/M were behind D/W after SD at the 4CC, just like at WTT. And no, D/W didn't implode but the Olympic Champions easily scored high enough in the FD to easily overtake the Americans on U.S. turf no less.

    Fun factoid: D/W has never beaten V/M when a competition is held in the U.S., there must be a curse or something like that considering Ice Dance couples usually do better vs. their close rivals when they compete at home, e.g. V/M vs. D/W at the Vancouver Olympics or P/B vs. W/P at the Nice Worlds 2012.


    He also knew at that point that the Canadian Ladies would not be able to score high enough in the Freeskate to pull the Canadian Team up to win the event.
    Really? You can mathematically calculate all that in your heard in split seconds before the fact? I mean, that's a lot of possibilities to consider, not to mention how the Pairs team will do and the Men's competition. The possibilities are endless: Japanese men could bomb like the American men did. Canadian pair could win the event overall, as they almost did. Canadian women could both rise in ranking, defeating some of the lower rank ladies like the two French women, Valentina Marchei of Italy and a few others while Akiko could bomb like Kanako. All those things add up very quickly. But then again, if you wish to dismiss something, considering all the possibilities is obviously a mere detail so please don't let me stop you.

    Moir has already shown signs of being a poor loser (i.e. Grand Prix Final), so it’s not a leap to suggest that that is indeed the case.
    Poor loser is a characterization made by certain people who have never anything positive to say about V/M due to them consistently beating D/W in major events, including Worlds this year. Despite all the earlier hypes of D/W's FD being a "Classic", which IMO is an over-hype that ended up hurting them more than anything else, I suppose if hyping them doesn't work, let's try some negative spraying of their training mates and #1 competition. Just keep in mind that like the 2012 election campaign in the U.S., all those negativity, most of which are baseless tea leaf reading, runs the serious risk of backfiring. When V/M lost the FD at GPF due to computational error and the subsequent attempt to paint Scott Moir as a villain, many judges felt it was mean spirited or felt that V/M were treated unfairly. So the lopsided, back to back victories, by V/M at 4CC, then at Worlds was in a way a pay back for what happened earlier in the season. Can't say V/M didn't get some help but in part, they have to thank all those negativity which you helped to spread yet ended up alienating a lot of people.

    Just because Moir is known as a hothead does not excuse him as you seem to indicate. And how many of his press/teleconferences have you attended to say he is always so “sweet and gracious?” There are in fact few skaters with as big a mouth as Moir. It’s just not good PR to insult your host. Moir is a great skater/dancer but his arrogance is not a particularly admirable trait.
    ROFL! May I ask you, do you cover any other sports besides Ice Dance?

  10. #100
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    Moir truly believes Davis and white are an inferior team to them something he has always believed he can`t stand losing to them even at minor competitions that don`t mean anything even when they skate at 70% of their capabilities or phone in the performance, i expect another mega tantrum from them if they don`t win the gp final next year the only major comp they have not won.

  11. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by romanoff81 View Post
    Moir truly believes Davis and white are an inferior team to them something he has always believed he can`t stand losing to them even at minor competitions that don`t mean anything even when they skate at 70% of their capabilities or phone in the performance, i expect another mega tantrum from them if they don`t win the gp final next year the only major comp they have not won.
    Yes, SCOTT, we know what you believe.

    But really, you should be embarrassed by your infantile behavior.

  12. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by wallylutz View Post
    Poor loser is a characterization made by certain people who have never anything positive to say about V/M due to them consistently beating D/W in major events, including Worlds this year. Despite all the earlier hypes of D/W's FD being a "Classic", which IMO is an over-hype that ended up hurting them more than anything else, I suppose if hyping them doesn't work, let's try some negative spraying of their training mates and #1 competition.?
    I'm not reading any posts about V/M being a poor loser. It's SCOTT who is perceived as a poor loser because of his behavior in the KnC and/or his remarks after a competition where he hasn't received marks to his liking.

    Tessa is by no means included in that perception, nor V/M as a team.

  13. #103
    Constable , Costume Police colleen o'neill's Avatar
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    Oh, my lord ! We need to get over this..I'll just go on record by saying I hate the event , whatever Scott thinks.

    This was sort of fun when it was just an off-season cheese fest , and gave us a chance to see some new programs, and helped satisfy our off-season cravings. I can't see how it will add to the Olympics , down the road . If it's anything like this , I'd think it would be a detriment.

  14. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by colleen o'neill View Post
    Oh, my lord ! We need to get over this..I'll just go on record by saying I hate the event , whatever Scott thinks.

    This was sort of fun when it was just an off-season cheese fest , and gave us a chance to see some new programs, and helped satisfy our off-season cravings. I can't see how it will add to the Olympics , down the road . If it's anything like this , I'd think it would be a detriment.
    Really? I thought it was a lot of fun and there was really good skating out there. I think some people really got into it. And I think for some there's something about playing for a team that motivates them to do well also.

    I guess we'll see when it comes around, but I really don't think it will be a detriment to the sport or anything.

  15. #105
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    I enjoyed the skating at the WTT but I am not a fan of the team event at the Olympic Games. Figure skating is an individual sport for 99.5% of the year. Then factor in that not all nations have representatives in all disciplines. Then add in that the team event is suppose to be first then the individual events - talk about being anti-climatic rather than the other way around...If you want a real team event - put in synchronized skating or my first preference put the CD back in ice dance.

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