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Thread: Ladies Free

  1. #136
    Custom Title DianaSelene's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jammers View Post
    I agree with most of what you said except about Gracie two years is a long time in Ladies skating. Carolina will be 27 will she be able to keep up her consistency? Akiko will be almost 29. It's almost unheard of someone that age contending for a medal at the Olympics. If Gracie does the work and works on her presentation she doesn't need to be the second coming of Michelle Kwan. Her jumps make her a threat already. 110 points for a flawed LP tells me the judges already think highly of her.
    Yes, however I think many skaters at this event got higher scores than usual. They would get lower at other comps and so would Gold. I do think she was scored higher than she should have. It kind of annoys me that she was so close in pcs to Sotnikova who has far superior skating skills, interpretation, and choreography.
    Last edited by DianaSelene; 04-21-2012 at 07:35 PM.

  2. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tanja90 View Post
    You have to consider that in the Long program there is the rule about not repeating more than two jumps...Since almost every girl has a 3t3t combo they choose tho avoid it and do a 2a3t (which is the double-trple combo with the highest value) and repeat two jumps with a higher base value than a toeloop...
    It's frustrating because you see all these women capable of doing hard 3/3s and there is absolutely no incentive to do them in the long program. I wish the ISU could somehow figure a way to factor the scoring to reflect that a 3T done after a 3Z is more difficult than one after a 2A.

  3. #138
    skating philosopher Mrs. P's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DianaSelene View Post
    Yes, however I think many skaters at this event got higher scores than usual. They would get lower at other comps and so would Gold. I do think she was scored higher than she should have. It kind of annoys me that she was so close in pcs to Sotnikova who has far superior skating skills, interpretation, and choreography.
    Ashley's score in the LP here (122) was just a touch above the one at Worlds (120). I didn't think the scores were super inflated here. Maybe a touch above but not to the same level as 4CC where Ashley scored a 128.

    I still think Gracie would be in the 110-115 range if she did this program at Worlds esp. with a clean program, so I don't think she benefited from inflation.

    I agree with you regarding the choreography and interpt but Gracie does have good skating skills. If you look at Gracie's feet, she has nice edges and great ice coverage, I don't think Adelina's is far superior in that regard. Also the judges scored her and Adelina close in PCS at junior worlds too, so it's not a new phenomenon by any means.

  4. #139
    Custom Title DianaSelene's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs. P View Post
    Ashley's score in the LP here (122) was just a touch above the one at Worlds (120). I didn't think the scores were super inflated here. Maybe a touch above but not to the same level as 4CC where Ashley scored a 128.

    I still think Gracie would be in the 110-115 range if she did this program at Worlds esp. with a clean program, so I don't think she benefited from inflation.

    I agree with you regarding the choreography and interpt but Gracie does have good skating skills. If you look at Gracie's feet, she has nice edges and great ice coverage, I don't think Adelina's is far superior in that regard. Also the judges scored her and Adelina close in PCS at junior worlds too, so it's not a new phenomenon by any means.
    Well, the superinflation was not as much in the ladies fs as in ladies sp. I think the scores should have been lower there. Whether it's a new phenomenon or not with pcs, I think even if you discount skating skills and performance, the other categories should have been higher for Sotnikova. At this point it doesn't matter anymore. Just my personal opinion.
    Last edited by DianaSelene; 04-21-2012 at 11:33 PM.

  5. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckm View Post
    Kanako got such a low score in the FS because so many of her jumps were UR:

    3ze<, 3lo<, 3f, 2t, 1f^2a, 3t<, 3s<+2t<<-df+1lo

    She landed only one clean triple.

    Unfortunately, Haruka Imai also has a severe UR problem.

    If Ando doesn't come back and Asada can't regain her jump consistency, Suzuki will be the top Japanese lady. She's had an amazing season with a GPF silver, a World bronze and WTT gold.
    Yes, it's very frustrating. Imai not only has UR issues but is also wildly inconsistent in the FS, worse than Kanako, her score regularly goes down into the 80s. Shoji was injured this season but she also has major UR issues. Even Miyahara has UR issues despite being so diminutive, surely as she grows it will only become worse. I really like the skating of Kanako, Haruka, and Risa but I'm afraid the URs will prevent them from really having an impact on the international stage (well, Kanako has already, but it could jeopardize her future). Seems like an unsettling trend for the young Japanese ladies skaters...

  6. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by DianaSelene View Post
    Well, the superinflation was not as much in the ladies fs as in ladies sp. I think the scores should have been lower there. Whether it's a new phenomenon or not with pcs, I think even if you discount skating skills and performance, the other categories should have been higher for Sotnikova. At this point it doesn't matter anymore. Just my personal opinion.
    I also thing Adelina should have got higher scores in the SP. But I think they put her down to let room for Kanako in the free.

  7. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckm View Post
    Gracie is SIXTEEN. She won't turn 17 until mid-August. This was her first season of international competition, so it's unrealistic to expect a finished, polished skater with mind-blowing presentation.
    Unless your name is Michelle, Tara and Oksana who were all world champions and had a fair bit of presentation skills at 15. Sasha Cohen was pretty polished too by that age. Gracie skates more like Nancy Kerrigan with more speed. She has very good technique but is a bit mechanical and tends to skate through the music. I'm hoping she's the real deal and not just a flavor of the month. We're all waiting for the next big thing after years of disappointment

  8. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by silverlake22 View Post
    Yes, it's very frustrating. Imai not only has UR issues but is also wildly inconsistent in the FS, worse than Kanako, her score regularly goes down into the 80s. Shoji was injured this season but she also has major UR issues. Even Miyahara has UR issues despite being so diminutive, surely as she grows it will only become worse. I really like the skating of Kanako, Haruka, and Risa but I'm afraid the URs will prevent them from really having an impact on the international stage (well, Kanako has already, but it could jeopardize her future). Seems like an unsettling trend for the young Japanese ladies skaters...
    Isn't UR a problem for Miki and Mao as well? I seem to recall that that's the reason they gave up on 3x3. Is this correct? I also remember N. Morozov saying sometime ago that the Japanese ladies' field isn't that deep. If many of the up & coming ones also have UR issues, the prognosis isn't exactly bright. They'd have to rely on Akiko to carry on the good works and secure the 3 spots. Is this doable?

  9. #144
    Forever stuck on those steps Li'Kitsu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DianaSelene
    Whether it's a new phenomenon or not with pcs, I think even if you discount skating skills and performance, the other categories should have been higher for Sotnikova. At this point it doesn't matter anymore. Just my personal opinion.
    Just wanted to agree here. Adelina struggled this season, but she has really good basic skating skills, speed, maturity and presence. As it is now, she should have been higher than Gracie in all categories, and in some I think even more than others.
    I'm not saying Gracie was bad or anything. She didn't focus on the PCS for this season, which was the right thing to do, because the jumps come first. And I think she has a lot of potential to develop in this parts too - I'm excited to see what growth she will show till next season (and even if she's not going to be the 'next big thing', way too much expactations anyway).

    An, and let's talk, it's nice to hear Adelina seems to be so beloved in japan already! Even before the SP, when her name was called I thought I heard people clapping louder for her than for the other skaters before, and I just went "huh? Am I mishearing that?". Hope that gives her confidence an additional boost!

    About Kanako... I agree her jumping technic is pretty horrible. I just wish she might switch to another coach for that, because she has so many beautiful qualities to her skating. If she'd work on her posture and polish, she could get pretty high PCS too I think (if the judges would, that is), her artistc growth this season is amazing (especially compared to last season). The general potential is there, I think I can understand what the JSF sees in her... although I think their a bunch of morons in general, for keeping Akiko down all these years
    And about Ando - don't think saying she had UR problems in general is fair. Her jumps are huge, mostly nowhere near UR - just because of her 3x3... it was a 3-3Lo anyway, that's hardly the standard.

  10. #145
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    I looked at the protocol and I'm a bit surprised (unpleasantly) that Gracie Gold is SO near Adelina in PCS!***??(( I get it that technically she is stronger than Adel but in pcs...Oo
    I don't get it..It seems that Sotnikova was held back=(

  11. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlattFan View Post
    It wasn't just one jump that is the problem. Even her 2A, she was so forward. Lost a lot of speed after any jump so her combo will always be problematic. ...

    I honestly don't see her going anywhere with a bad team and bad technique.
    Let me remind you that Adelina, except her butterflied 3L, was the only one there who got all +GOE for all elements. And no one else did.

    Quote Originally Posted by Selene View Post
    so apparently the judges don't share your opinion.
    Ouch. What a discovery. You should visit Men threads more often.

  12. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by Li'Kitsu View Post
    About Kanako... I agree her jumping technic is pretty horrible. I just wish she might switch to another coach for that, because she has so many beautiful qualities to her skating. If she'd work on her posture and polish, she could get pretty high PCS too I think (if the judges would, that is), her artistc growth this season is amazing (especially compared to last season). The general potential is there, I think I can understand what the JSF sees in her... although I think their a bunch of morons in general, for keeping Akiko down all these years
    And about Ando - don't think saying she had UR problems in general is fair. Her jumps are huge, mostly nowhere near UR - just because of her 3x3... it was a 3-3Lo anyway, that's hardly the standard.
    Thank you for your comment on U/R or otherwise regarding Miki.

    Re kanako's jumps, postures etc, yes, she, like Mao, has potential, but with both ladies is this a case of some bad habits not having been corrected earlier on? Mao's iffy jumps now seem to date back ages ago...
    I don't know if it was the way they were taught in their early teens but there seems to be a pattern...

  13. #148
    skating philosopher Mrs. P's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tampro1 View Post
    Unless your name is Michelle, Tara and Oksana who were all world champions and had a fair bit of presentation skills at 15. Sasha Cohen was pretty polished too by that age. Gracie skates more like Nancy Kerrigan with more speed. She has very good technique but is a bit mechanical and tends to skate through the music. I'm hoping she's the real deal and not just a flavor of the month. We're all waiting for the next big thing after years of disappointment
    Nobody claims that Gracie is at the level of Michelle, Tara or Oksana -- at least I don't.

    But those three also started competing in international competition much earlier and even at the senior level nationally much earlier. Gracie has had one senior event.

    I understand that people have a lot more expectations of her because of her technical skills, but at the same time I don't get why everyone is rushing Gracie to arrive so quickly. I say let her develop in her own time. Being a champion or world medalist doesn't mean arriving to the destination the quickest.

  14. #149
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    Yeah to many times we see girls who don't have the jumps to go along with their presentation skills. Gracie wanted to get her jumps in order first which is how it should be.

  15. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs. P View Post
    I agree with you regarding the choreography and interpt but Gracie does have good skating skills. If you look at Gracie's feet, she has nice edges and great ice coverage, I don't think Adelina's is far superior in that regard. Also the judges scored her and Adelina close in PCS at junior worlds too, so it's not a new phenomenon by any means.
    Maybe a year or two ago I would say Adelina should get higher PCS. Now, she looks uncomfortable every time out. She has better programs, so I would give her CH, IN. Her SS deteriorated. Look at the way she gained speed by doing a bunch of cross over with her butt sticking out, kinda like Bobrova. Her posture is no where near what it was. She got some rep points for being amazing in the junior rank. If you don't know who she was, she would not get the kind of benefit of the doubt she's getting now. I think she's overscored the entire season.

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