2011/12 - That was the season that was | Page 2 | Golden Skate

2011/12 - That was the season that was

Poodlepal

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 14, 2010
I remember figure skating becoming very popular in the early 90's, before the T and N scandal. After that there were a lot of skating specials for a few years, but from say 2000 to maybe 2006 it was still fairly popular, and readily accessible on television.

When ABC dropped the figure skating contract is when things really went bad. All the ESPN coverage disappeared, beloved commentators Dick and Peggy were gone, it was harder and harder to find. . .it was getting better with Universal Sports, but now that that channel is gone, the sport is more or less done as a spectator sport on television.

There is a problem with the COP. However, seriously, if that were the judging system in the US in the 90's, does anyone think Michelle still wouldn't have won most of those years? That's not what's killing the US girls, it's their mediocrity and inconsistency.

The COP does take a few fun aspects out of watching it, however:
1. There's no drama about someone falling, as we've seen. Fall away, but if your edges are the best, you still win.
2. There's no drama in knowing which country gave which score
3. If you think someone should have won but didn't, it's like your fault because you haven't memorized a 200 page rule book. There's no fun in arguing that one person was beter than the next, because the person who disagrees with you measured the feet with a protractor and saw the angle of their edges, plus they analyzed the music and noticed that the winner was skating to a 4/4 count and not a 3/4 count--OK, I guess that's fun :)

4. There are serious complaints that the programs all look the same, and there is less creativity in a contest to rack up the points.
 

Tonichelle

Idita-Rock-n-Roll
Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 27, 2003
it was getting better with Universal Sports, but now that that channel is gone, the sport is more or less done as a spectator sport on television.

Universal Sports isn't gone, unless I missed something. :scratch:
 

R.D.

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
I think (s)he means that Universal Sports' audience has shrunk significantly after they switched to niche cable channel only.

If you think someone should have won but didn't, it's like your fault because you haven't memorized a 200 page rule book. There's no fun in arguing that one person was beter than the next, because the person who disagrees with you measured the feet with a protractor and saw the angle of their edges,

right....this.

In the US, I think the shrinkage of skating from TV began in 2004. This was the last year ABC televised Worlds in prime time, before it went to ESPN and all that. Coverage of most of the skating season was then on ESPN, with the exception of the pro-am Campbells/Marshalls events (remember those?), Skate America, and Nationals. Then, in 2007, ABC dropped US Nationals, leaving NBC to pick it up and killing the pro-ams in the process (they've since been replaced by Japanese ones). Then the following year, ESPN dropped the Grand Prix series, meaning that the only skating on TV here was Skate America & Nationals. Ice Network came about to pick up the slack, thankfully. During the 2009-10 Olympic season, NBC began airing most of the GP events including the final, and have continued to do so since. This year was the first network coverage of a foreign worlds, I think, since ABC in 2008.

So...I wouldn't say skating has totally disappeared from US TV. But, perhaps it's not being promoted well enough since there are so many complaints about it not being on.

On this topic, Disson Skating is reducing the number of skating specials on NBC down to 5 for next season (typically there are 9-10 events).
 

NorthernDancers

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 15, 2010
I personally don't think that COP has anything to do with the popularity of the sport with the general public in Canada. Most members of the general public don't even know there is a new judging system. It's just skating to them. It's the fans that get themselves twisted in knots about it, generally either pining for the good old days with it's freedom, angst, and high drama, or touting the higher level of technical development and more transparent judging standards. I think the issue with the sport's popularity is really a combination of reasons, and I'm sure this is not a comprehensive list:

- many people don't understand the sport, and therefore don't consider it a sport. It's entertaining like a dance show, but it isn't a real sport. They have no clue what great athletes skaters really are.

- the SLC scandal confirmed for many the suspicion that competitions are about beauty contests, corruption, reputation, and are predetermined. With the beliefs confirmed, it really isn't a sport, and therefore many stopped paying attention altogether. They have no clue that there is a new judging system to remove most of the concerns. But if one reads these boards too much, and listens to some of the comments from long-time coaches and fans, one might get the impression that there is still much work to do to remove judging bias, reputation judging, and politicking. This sport will not survive another judging scandal, and any tweaks to the system must improve transparency, integrity, etc in the SPORT of skating.

- participation is down in general because skating is expensive, there are many other choices now, and why spend a lot of money on what is essentially a glorified beauty contest that can create other problems in some kids (ie. poor body image, eating disorders, etc.). For girls, hockey is very popular and it can be more fun because it provides a team environment instead of being an individual pursuit. For boys, the stereotypes that exist make it very hard for some dads to allow their boys to figure skate and ice dance, and boys who do often put up with a lot of abuse from their peers, sometimes just mental and emotional, but sometimes physical too. Role models like Scott Moir, Kurt Browning, Andrew Poje, Patrice Lauzon, Aaron Lowe and some of our really cool and fun pairs guys are all doing wonders to improve the situation. But let's not kid ourselves that boys in the sport are very few, and they often have to put up with a lot. I'm sad that Battle of the Blades was cut. It was doing great things to build bridges between hockey and figuring skating, and breaking down some wrong-headed attitudes. With participation down, fewer are paying attention, and the audiences are smaller.

- As others have noted, there is a lot more content for TV to compete with skating, and many sports really. I remember watching world cup skiing on Saturday afternoons before dinner when I was a teenager. It's pretty hard to find these days. Now, our friends in curling seem to be able to score hours and hours of coverage with TSN, but Canadian championships in skating can't even be properly televised once per year, and they mess with the integrity of the whole event with the crazy schedule. But perhaps that's also Skate Canada's responsibility. Combine general cynicism with lower participation rates and limited coverage on TV and in newspapers, the audience is shrinking.

- Stars on Ice and shows get some strong fan support, but with all of the above, and people running very busy lives, the audience is shrinking. When competitions are run in small population base areas, it can help promote the sport in the local area (the folks in Moncton were very helpful and nice) but this does not fill arenas or diminish the idea that the sport is declining in popularity as evidenced by empty seats. Add to this the fact prices to events are expensive in harder economic times, and less people will part with their dollars. Now, I am certain that London Worlds next year will be packed for at least pairs, dance and men's. But that has a lot to do with how close London is to the main training centers of many of the competitors, at least in dance and pairs, and the home clubs of many Canadian skaters. London is hometown for Tessa and Scott. The house will be packed. These kids, along with other local skating talent like Andrew and Kaitlyn, get very good coverage in the local media.

- I don't know about USFSA, but I do think Skate Canada needs a lot of help to build a brand and an image, which will help with sponsorship. Over the last couple of years, we have lost major sponsors, TV coverage is low, and membership is down. Yet we have some fabulous athletes who are at or near the top of the world. It should be a gold mine for them. We need some business experts at the top to complement our skating experts in order to completely overhaul the marketing, to secure sponsors, and to lobby government with other sports to update and improve the funding model so more kids can afford to stay in the sport. And a good marketing and education campaign can raise the profile of the sport, educate the public on the improvements that have been made to improve the integrity of the sport, and sponsorship can reduce the costs of big events so that there are more people in the seats. With better promotion of the current athletes, and not just at the top, more kids might be interested in staying in skating instead of finding other sports instead.
 

R.D.

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
- many people don't understand the sport, and therefore don't consider it a sport. It's entertaining like a dance show, but it isn't a real sport. They have no clue what great athletes skaters really are.

Well, I think you can acknowledge the difficulty and athleticism in many of the moves skaters do, and yet still not consider FS a sport altogether...

I don't know about USFSA, but I do think Skate Canada needs a lot of help to build a brand and an image, which will help with sponsorship. Over the last couple of years, we have lost major sponsors, TV coverage is low, and membership is down. Yet we have some fabulous athletes who are at or near the top of the world. It should be a gold mine for them.

USFS is in the same boat, believe me. But it's interesting to hear the same thing is happening in Canada (reduced interest, etc.). I'd have thought Canadians would be all over it with the stars they have in Patrick Chan, Virtue/Moir & Joannie Rochette. At least USFS can say they don't have a female star, but even if we did get one it's not going to be the ultimate fix to our skating woes.
 

krenseby

Final Flight
Joined
Jan 8, 2006
At least USFS can say they don't have a female star, but even if we did get one it's not going to be the ultimate fix to our skating woes.

The ultimate fix would be getting skaters out and about on the media circuit so that they would get noticed.
 

Jammers

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 4, 2010
Country
United-States
Well, I think you can acknowledge the difficulty and athleticism in many of the moves skaters do, and yet still not consider FS a sport altogether...



USFS is in the same boat, believe me. But it's interesting to hear the same thing is happening in Canada (reduced interest, etc.). I'd have thought Canadians would be all over it with the stars they have in Patrick Chan, Virtue/Moir & Joannie Rochette. At least USFS can say they don't have a female star, but even if we did get one it's not going to be the ultimate fix to our skating woes.
Joannie isn't skating in competitions anymore so Canada doesn't have a female star either and the Canadian women are way worse right now then the US Ladies.
 

Bluebonnet

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 18, 2010
NJS, the SLC scandal, media fragmentation, lack of a US star in ladies...all part of it.

Those are relatively small reasons compared with the trend and cultural drifting. The traditional sense of figure skating is not attractive any more. People want to listen to strong beat modern music. They want to see fast pace and real fights. They want to see sexiness, more direct, more revealing. In one word, they want excitement. The hardcore figure skating fans, like the people on this board, are the odd balls (just learned from Math:)). So those scoring scandals, wacking legs, new lady stars are not going to get as much excitement as before. They might stimulate the interests of the publics for a few months to a year. Soon it'll be gone. Just like the Olympic games. When the games over, it is over. Short like that and simple like that.
 
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R.D.

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
The ultimate fix would be getting skaters out and about on the media circuit so that they would get noticed.

It's a bit of a catch-22 here- they have to show results first (read: world title or Oly medal) before they are awarded such opportunities. And yet, that's not enough either. Didn't Lysacek do DWTS?

We don't even need another Kwan; another Cohen would likely be good enough.
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
Poodlepal said:
If you think someone should have won but didn't, it's like your fault .

Thank you, thank you, thank you! I have been struggling ever since the CoP came out to put my finger on it.

Nobody wants to go out for an evening's entertainment and come back home feeling, "It's all my fault."
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
Poodlepal said:
There's no drama about someone falling.

Thank you again! In the olden days, that was so thrilling. Just two more jumps to go! Whew, she didn't fall! One more jump to go. I can't stand the tension! I hope she takes me out of my misery and just skates through it. Oh no, here she goes. Yes!!!!
 

R.D.

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Those are relatively small reasons compared with the trend and cultural drifting. The traditional sense of figure skating is not attractive any more. People want to listen to strong beat modern music. They want to see fast pace and real fights. They want to see sexiness, more direct, more revealing. In one word, they want excitement.

YES! This is true too. It's why I myself often get bored with skating, and admittedly there are times (mostly within the past 4 or so years) that I actually enjoy talking/posting about skating more than actually watching it. In fact, I've probably been solely at that stage since the Vancouver games.

I always felt that the skating community, as a whole, is stuck 20-30 years in the past. More modern music would be nice, and more variety would be nice too.
 

slipslidin

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 22, 2004
Greed and marketing are killing the sport. It seems to me that skating used to get good coverage when it was cheap (like a reality show). I can remember when CBC would broadcast figures, and, actually ,it was at least as entertaining as bowling. The camera would move right in and show you the tracings.

Then, it seemed to me, the ISU decided to go after any money there was in skating. There was a time when there were several skating shows on TV every week, amateur,professional and pro-am. TV rights went sky-high, quality slipped and the marketing geniuses decided the public preferred to see fluff pieces instead of so much skating.

Now you get to see the top few skaters, maybe not even both their programs, and as much as a month later. Common sense tells me that fewer people will want to see a competition long after the event.

Try giving the locals a show for the price of a night at the movies, it would pay better than empty seats.
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
Those are relatively small reasons compared with the trend and cultural drifting. The traditional sense of figure skating is not attractive any more. People want to listen to strong beat modern music. They want to see fast pace and real fights. They want to see sexiness, more direct, more revealing. In one word, they want excitement.

Sadly, I think your first sentence sums up the current state of affairs.

The problem is, if people are not interested in skating any more, then they are not interested in skating any more. If it is rock music they want, they can go to a rock concert. Why confuse the issue by putting some skaters out there? If the public wants sexiness, why bother with putting on ice skates? Where does the skating part come in?

Back in the day, shows like the Ice Follies and the Ice Capades were a hot ticket. What happened? As you say, entertainment trends and cultural drift.

Most of the suggestions to pep up the commercial side of skating are really about professional entertainment, not amateur athletics. We have to remember that 95 per cent of all competitive skaters are children, and most of the remeining 5% are recreational and adult skaters. These are the participants that organizations like the USFSA must give first priority to, if for no other reason that the fact that is is the parents of these children who are footing the bill.
 
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evangeline

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 7, 2007
I always felt that the skating community, as a whole, is stuck 20-30 years in the past. More modern music would be nice, and more variety would be nice too.

I agree. I remember how Davis/White's Bollywood OD garnered so much positive press and praise even from non-figure skating media sources, blogs, and the like (e.g. http://bollyspice.com/3326/bollywood-comes-to-the-olympics, and this http://vancouver2010.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/01/04/from-davis-and-white-to-india-with-love/#). More quality programs like this instead of Carmen and the same old warhorses over and over again would definitely help lift figure skating from the rather stodgy image it suffers from.
 
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Poodlepal

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 14, 2010
Actually, this is (or was a couple of years ago) the golden age of subjectively judged talent contests on television. I don't think it matters if people think skaters are athletes or not. People like watching talented people compete against each other, whether they are athletes, dancers, singers, or have some odd talent like ventriloquism! Three times they tried to have skating reality shows like that, though, and they never got renewed in the US after one season. I don't know why, whether it was a problem with the format of the show, the "celebrities" that were on, or if people just don't like to skating. But it's such a pretty thing to see, I can't imagine that it's that displeasing.

Skating has never been as popular as other "low" forms of entertainment. I mean, I'm sure there were more people in a disco than watching Dorothy Hamill in the Ice Capades back when I saw her as a little kid. And I'm sure all those hippies weren't really into Peggy Fleming. Why the popularity has gone so far below its pre-Tonya baseline is puzzling and troubling. I think what someone said might be it: there is no room for anything other than huge sports on the stations that used to have bowling, billiards and timber sports as well as figure skating. Only the big three men's sports are televised any more.
 

R.D.

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
I think what someone said might be it: there is no room for anything other than huge sports on the stations that used to have bowling, billiards and timber sports as well as figure skating.

But I'm not sure I completely buy that argument. The media world today is such that in most cases, you can find what you're looking for (i.e. what you WANT to see) and aren't "limited" just what's on the few stations on TV. There are more niche stations than ever showing all kinds of shows and sports. The "big" stations will show whatever gets them eyeballs and right now, skating is not it.

The MUCH bigger issue, to me anyway, is where skating fits in today's media world. I don't think TPTB have been able to figure out its place. It's why NBC's US Nationals ratings sink lower each year (save Oly years), every skating TV show seems to flop (skating with the stars, Thin Ice), and audience interest seems to diminish. If skating wants to broaden its range, it needs to figure out how to appeal to YOUNGER audiences... Allowing hip-hop in junior dance, believe it or not, is a step in the right direction. Also, reaching out to social media more is another step. It would be great if we could get a) solid promoters/marketers at USFS, b) a new lady star, and c) better overall competitiveness at the world level. We have to start at the bottom and work our way up.
 

Mao88

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 9, 2011
In one word, they want excitement.

More specifically, they want entertainment. This goes to the heart of the problem with COP/IJS, as it has removed most of the artistry from figure skating. It was the artistry that provided much of what was entertaining about skating in the first place. In removing much of it, COP made figure skating boring as far as the wider public was concerned. That is why audiences have fallen away, and why TV contracts have been lost. When will the ISU wake up and smell the coffee? Quite simply, if figure skating is going to survive, then COP/IJS needs to go, and go fast. COP/IJS was brought in, in the wake of the 2002 Olympics scandal, but the medicine ended up causing more problems than the actual disease. The solution was simply to remove the corrupt officials from the sport, not to remove what was most appealing about it in the first place - the artistry and the 6.0 system (which was far more easily understood by the wider public, and which provided added excitement in itself). In my view, the solution is to bring back the artistry and the 6.0 system, and thereby restore what was entertaining about figure skating in the first place. Prices for spectators also need to come down. If this is done in time for next season, then hopefully figure skating as a whole can really put on a show at the 2014 Olympics. That is the ISU's next really good opportunity to show the world that figure skating is back to its entertaining best. Make a success of the 2014 Olympics, and that will bring back the spectators and the TV companies. However, to prepare the way for that, and to put the groundwork in place in good time, then the necessary changes need to be made fast.

Do nothing, and figure skating will continue to suffer a slow lingering death. I think a crossroads has been reached, and if nothing is done soon, the sport will reach a tipping point beyond which recovery is not possible.

The lesson of the last 10 years that the ISU needs to learn is what every sport has had to factor in if it is to survive in the modern world - that the sport that they are regulating and governing, whilst a sport, will only survive and thrive by acknowledging and running it on the basis that it is in the entertainment business. In removing much of the artistry from figure skating and making it boring to the wider public, COP/IJS has been an unmitigated disaster. What the ISU completely forgot about when they introduced COP/IJS, was that figure skating, at it's best, was more than just a sport, it was a showsport (i.e. a combination of art and sport) in which the best program's were those that came nearest to achieving not just the best blend of athleticism and technique, but also of artistry, musicality, interpretation, flair, verve, charisma, presentation, etc. One example of this, was Liz Manley's free skate at the 1988 Olympics. Looked at in purely technical terms, it was inferior to Midori Ito's long program. However, Manley's performance had so more to it than just athleticism and it's technical content - elements that positively engaged the audience and switched it on as it were. That is why Manley won the free skate, and it is these kind of program's and performances that will bring the wider public back to figure skating. Another excellent example, is Janet Lynn's 'Afternoon of a Faun' (which I think she skated best at the 1970 U.S Nationals) - a brilliant illustration of just how much great artistry can add to a skating program and of why there is more to figure skating than just technical content.
 
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Tonichelle

Idita-Rock-n-Roll
Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 27, 2003
Does the ISU want the tv contracts in the US/Canada or does it want to retain its Olympic Sport status? The IOC was just as big a reason for this change in judging as anything IIRC.
 
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