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Thread: The Stalking of Korean Hip Hop Superstar Daniel Lee

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    The Stalking of Korean Hip Hop Superstar Daniel Lee

    I mentioned in my music post (http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/sho...l=1#post640141) about Epik High, a hip-hop group in Korea. I also mention that one of its members, Tablo graduated from Stanford.

    What I didn't tell you, however, that Tablo went through what some here in the U.S. would consider unfathomable — an Internet group that tried to convince the world that this young man did not have a degree from Stanford. This smear campaign would lead to death threats and nearly destroyed this young man's musical career. This hell went on for more than a year, even after Tablo (known as Dan Lee) showed transcripts and even filmed a television special of him visiting Stanford.

    Anyway, I bring it up because Wired had an interesting piece on the subject today:

    http://www.wired.com/underwire/2012/04/ff_koreanrapper

    This story is an extreme example of how when you are famous —everyone is on you and will set all sorts of claims for and against you. It explains a lot why Yuna Kim felt so pressured in competitions.
    Last edited by Mrs. P; 04-24-2012 at 02:42 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs. P View Post
    This story is an extreme example of how when you are famous —everyone is on you and will set all sorts of claims for and against you. It explains a lot why Yuna Kim felt so pressured in competitions.
    Don't tell me that. I already have social anxiety disorder and am essentially a hermit. That just scares me further away from people.

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    Fortunately Tablo was able to get over the issue. He had to leave the music industry for a while, but I'm glad he is backed and signed a temporary contract with YG Entertainment (the same company as Big Bang, 2NE1, and his wife). I love Epik High and his music. I can't wait until Epik High comes back. Some fans and anti-fans are really extreme.

    Here's his english version of Map the Soul
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9OkiGO7u-6w

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    Quote Originally Posted by FTnoona View Post
    Fortunately Tablo was able to get over the issue. He had to leave the music industry for a while, but I'm glad he is backed and signed a temporary contract with YG Entertainment (the same company as Big Bang, 2NE1, and his wife). I love Epik High and his music. I can't wait until Epik High comes back. Some fans and anti-fans are really extreme.

    Here's his english version of Map the Soul
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9OkiGO7u-6w
    Yes, I'm glad he's been able to move on. I was really impressed with his solo stuff. While I hated the fact he had to go through all this, it did create a new phase for him musically. His past songs with Epik High were so bombastic, so awesome. This new set of songs retain his natural talent, but they're more subtle, more inward, introspective:

    "Bad" : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CA2f-6_Ro3I
    "Expiration Date": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yhk3s...feature=relmfu
    "Source": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZgHZ...feature=relmfu

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    Just checked out the article again. Those comments...eek! Tablo may have moved on but his stupid antis have not.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs. P View Post
    Just checked out the article again. Those comments...eek! Tablo may have moved on but his stupid antis have not.
    Antis are cray cray....Have you heard how some entertainment companies are going after crazy netizens that attack their stars. I think JYP is suing a netizen for harassing and threatening Sohee on twitter. Don't know if it's true since I get my kpop news off allkpop.com
    I heard that Tablo's last entertainment company did not protect him very well from the scandal.

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    Quote Originally Posted by skatinginbc View Post
    Don't tell me that. I already have social anxiety disorder and am essentially a hermit. That just scares me further away from people.
    Paradoxically, I think people face to face are often easier to deal with than people online. When I read some of the comments under regular news articles...I have to hope that people only behave that way anonymously online, not out in the world! And when I make the mistake of reading commentary under YouTube videos of skaters...how can there be that many rabid folk who even know about skating? Skating is such a niche sport. Do you think that there are this many antis who leave curses on videos of curling, for example?

    Seriously, it's so sad that a performer can have his life so disrupted by a malicious rumor. And that people can take up a rumor and spread it so quickly and so thoroughly. I understand that starting a rumor can give someone a perverted sense of power, but what causes people who follow and spread rumors to feel so good about doing that? Is it the herd mentality, do you think?
    Last edited by Olympia; 04-26-2012 at 08:10 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs. P View Post
    I mentioned in my music post (http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/sho...l=1#post640141) about Epik High, a hip-hop group in Korea. I also mention that one of its members, Tablo graduated from Stanford.

    What I didn't tell you, however, that Tablo went through what some here in the U.S. would consider unfathomable — an Internet group that tried to convince the world that this young man did not have a degree from Stanford. This smear campaign would lead to death threats and nearly destroyed this young man's musical career. This hell went on for more than a year, even after Tablo (known as Dan Lee) showed transcripts and even filmed a television special of him visiting Stanford.

    Anyway, I bring it up because Wired had an interesting piece on the subject today:

    http://www.wired.com/underwire/2012/04/ff_koreanrapper

    This story is an extreme example of how when you are famous —everyone is on you and will set all sorts of claims for and against you. It explains a lot why Yuna Kim felt so pressured in competitions.
    Yeah that Tablo story was an eye opener when I hear about it a while back, even Ashton Kershner twitted it. I wonder if this happens quite alot to other celebrities in Korea, it is only because Daniel Lee happen to be from Stanford we ends up hearing about it.

    I know Yuna has her own group of antis back home. Something about the internet, bring out the crazies :P

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    Quote Originally Posted by os168 View Post
    Yeah that Tablo story was an eye opener when I hear about it a while back, even Ashton Kershner twitted it. I wonder if this happens quite alot to other celebrities in Korea, it is only because Daniel Lee happen to be from Stanford we ends up hearing about it.

    I know Yuna has her own group of antis back home. Something about the internet, bring out the crazies :P
    Netizens have an amazing influence in Korean culture, which is not surprising given their penchant for technology.

    One example where this comes out is in its dramas, where it's not unusual for directors to rewrite scripts and film episodes up to HOURS before the episode is to air on TV to cater to a character of plot that is getting buzz online or to respond to criticisms/or low ratings. This not only leads to major plot holes or dangling plots but the actors and others involved are sleep deprived from working at all hours of the clock. (http://www.dramabeans.com/2011/03/th...-drama-system/)

    Let me put it this way — it would be like FSU or Golden Skate railing on something about COP and suddenly ISU goes nuts and says "We have to change this policy now!"

    My understanding (and like FTNoona, it comes from reading sites like allkpop) this happens quite a bit to celebrities in Korea. There have been suicides from actors and actresses because of netizen harassment. If celebrities make one mistake, even a minor one, then the netizens fill flame that celebrity for DAYS on end. For example, Tiffany, of the group Girls Generation and a Korean-American, didn't use the proper honorific (i.e. acknowleging elders) on some variety show once and she got all sorts of hate comments on websites. "Tiffany is so arrogant and doesn't value Korean!" "Tiffany should apologize for her bad behavior," etc.

    The Tablo example is a blown out example of this, sadly. As I explained to a friend on Facebook:

    The Korean entertainment industry made a big deal about his credentials, constantly asking him about them during variety shows and the like. Koreans, in general, are obsessed about getting into the top universities in Korea and they often deprive themselves during high school in order to reach that goal. The thing with Tablo — Daniel Lee — is that he managed to get into Stanford, a prestigious university, despite being a somewhat rebellious teenager. Not only that he managed to complete his masters and bachelors in 3.5 years.

    So part of the mob mentality here, me thinks, is resentment that this kid seem to have it "easy" and they can't believe that someone graduated from such a prestigious and tough school so effortlessly. Really he was just crazy smart and was able to load up his semesters with classes. On the Korean TV show on this, one of his friends noted that he was able to multi-task so well -- it wasn't unusual for him to study while talking to someone on ICQ while doing something else...
    So yes Olympia, there's a definite herd mentality. It started with just a few people saying, "Tablo is a liar" and then basically you get a bunch of other like minded people together and then you get what you see here.

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    Allkpop is sometimes misleading so you should also try to search for other maybe actual "news" sites. Yea the mob mentality is pretty scary sometimes when it comes to idols, actors, etc from my prespective (non-korean fan). Typically what the netizens find scandalous, I just shrug it off because of cultural differences between me and them. What I found really disturbing about Tablo's situation was that they still didn't believe him after he went to Standford, got confirmation from his friends and teachers that he was there. He even had official documents and the antis still wouldn't believe him. Why would a prestigious American university come out and say that he was indeed a student if it was a lie since lying would only damage Standford's reputation... You should listen to this song Tablo wrote for Fever's End.

    Dear TV
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2OVDbyoer34

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    Quote Originally Posted by FTnoona View Post
    Allkpop is sometimes misleading so you should also try to search for other maybe actual "news" sites. Yea the mob mentality is pretty scary sometimes when it comes to idols, actors, etc from my prespective (non-korean fan). Typically what the netizens find scandalous, I just shrug it off because of cultural differences between me and them. What I found really disturbing about Tablo's situation was that they still didn't believe him after he went to Standford, got confirmation from his friends and teachers that he was there. He even had official documents and the antis still wouldn't believe him. Why would a prestigious American university come out and say that he was indeed a student if it was a lie since lying would only damage Standford's reputation... You should listen to this song Tablo wrote for Fever's End.

    Dear TV
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2OVDbyoer34
    I have to agree with you. What I usually do is look at the primary source (the site rarely breaks its own news) and see what it says (using Google translate) if I have to.

    I think what it comes down to, is that they will likely believe for the rest of their lives that Tablo is lying because it satisfies some insecurity they have — that was very apparent from the Chicago guy who started the whole thing.

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    This is so sad.

    I think that one factor in addition to the intense relationship with technology is that most of the people using the technology are probably young. Impulse control develops slowly in the maturing brain, and a group of people doing something exciting is hard to resist when you're a teenager. Often, the thing a teenager wants most is to fit in, and joining a craze (harmless or toxic) is one of the fastest ways to do it. Mrs. P., your idea about insecurity and resentment is also significant, I think. It's as if the gossipers are saying, "You think you're so great because you're successful, but we can take you down."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Olympia View Post
    This is so sad.

    I think that one factor in addition to the intense relationship with technology is that most of the people using the technology are probably young. Impulse control develops slowly in the maturing brain, and a group of people doing something exciting is hard to resist when you're a teenager. Often, the thing a teenager wants most is to fit in, and joining a craze (harmless or toxic) is one of the fastest ways to do it. Mrs. P., your idea about insecurity and resentment is also significant, I think. It's as if the gossipers are saying, "You think you're so great because you're successful, but we can take you down."
    Those are great points, particularity the last one. In fact, in the WIRED article notes something the forum leader said:

    The media was colluding to protect Lee, because he was part of Korea’s upper crust. But the average citizen could fight back. “By proving Tablo’s fraud this time, the deep-rooted symbiotic relationship [between the media and the rich] can be cut off,” he wrote.
    But the sad part about this, Olympia, is that these are not teenagers who are leading this. The man who started this whole mess is a 56-year-old Korean father of two living in Chicago. Here is his justification, per the WIRED article:

    In posts online, [Eungsuk] Kim explained that he had two daughters, one of whom had attended Johns Hopkins. Both were doctors now. In statements to the media, he took responsibility for the attacks, arguing that “those who forge degrees from prestigious schools are hurting honest young people.” It appeared that he was just a father who had gotten wildly upset at a perceived injustice.
    And I find it sad that he's justifying his actions saying that Tablo's supposed forgery — which was proven to not be the case — was hurting young people, yet he thought nothing about leading a movement that did just that — hurt a young person. Not just Tablo, but his young wife and his two-year-old daughter.

    What kind of example is Kim setting to his two daughters? Would they be proud of a man who basically made a fellow young person's life hell because of a few baseless assumptions? That to me is the saddest thing. It wouldn't be much better if it came from a teenager, but the fact it came from an grown man is just disturbing.

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    Oh, my goodness. What a distressing turn of events.

    Can you imagine how mortified his daughters are.

    C.S. Lewis once said that if you make an idol of something, it can easily become a demon. Achievement--wanting to be the best--is a wonderful thing, but if you worship it beyond all other considerations, you can poison yourself with the hunger for it. And there's a subtle but crucial difference between wanting to be the best and not wanting anyone else to be better than you.
    Last edited by Olympia; 04-26-2012 at 09:36 PM.

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