Page 9 of 13 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 LastLast
Results 121 to 135 of 184

Thread: Yuzuru Hanyu changes coach to Brian Orser

  1. #121
    Custom Title bekalc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    3,089
    Quote Originally Posted by phaeljones View Post
    I sense that a lot of us having been holding back on what really bothers us about this until the facts come out better. But here it goes anyway:

    I hope this is not the case but consider this scenario: Think of yourself as a coach who takes a kid and does everything right, getting the best possible result, not just for a short while but over the long term, and not just on a local level but on a world level. Then, when your seventeen skater wins the bronze, he tells you that you are fired. He tells you he needs a better coach. But he tells you that he wants you to work with him still as a secondary coach while is he is back in Sendai. Effectively, he has told you, "You are fired."

    If this is the scenario that has played out here, it really speaks badly about Yuzuru's character. There are those who will say it is nothing personal and the sport is only about winning. This is the nature of the sport and so what. To those people, I would reply that everything in life is personal and this coach got him results better than anyone else has achieved with any other skater. But more importantly: Nothing is more important in life than the values you live by.

    If Yuzuru really cares about Abe and the facts are otherwise, he should clear the air. There may be reasons behind the scenes preventing him from doing so now, but when the opportunity arises he should. Why? Because he owes it to Abe.

    Ambition is no excuse to kicking a good person in the teeth. Neither is being the greatest skater in the world. (Some here disagree with me, I know, but I am just trying to explain what really bothers me personally here.)

    I really don't know what happened here. What I saw at the world's I thought was an incredibly great person on and off the ice. Unless I am missing something (and there may be something that has not been disclosed), what has happened with Abe afterward really begs the question about his real character. It may not affect what I think about his skating, but it will affect what I think about him as a person. I will hold my judgment and give him the benefit of a doubt until it comes out, but I really wonder what went on here.
    Whoa... Wait a second here.. I think you are making a heck of a lot of assumptions. He owes us no explanations, and we have no evidence that he treated his coach disrespectfully. First of all, Hanyu may have very good reasons for the split. Training time might be a big part of this; I was surprised that the Japanese fed didn't put their foot down last summer. Obviously some of it was the earthquake but I get the impression training time is an issue. Yes right now he's finishing high school in Sendai, but he probably doesn't have long left in high school, at most what a year (if less). Now he can train in Canada when school is out, and then train full time in Canada in the Olympic season. Making the switch now can lock in Orser or another top coach who says said coach will be available in a year and get him time to get accummulated if it doesn't work out..

    His current coach may not be able to move to a better training environment for one student either personally or professionally and may understand that her student may need more training time in the future. A more stable environment is a perfectly good reason to leave a coach. Also as well another perspective for his skating is a pretty good thing at times too (the coach may understand this).

    Also once again Hanyu may not have even made this decision. He's 17. He has to listen to his fed; they pay the bills, don't they. If the fed says either do what we say or we won't pay or pay less; can he afford to ignore this...He does have a loyalty towards his family too. And I'm sure Abe's known for awhile the likelhood of this happening... I think its a bit much to assume though that the Japanese Fed ended in a disrespectful way at all. We don't know the personal stuff going in with these people and aren't entitled to know. Look at what was going on in Asada's life including myself was criticizing her training arrangements. And was Yagudin rude and disrespectful when he left Mishin after Mishin got him to a World title. What about Illia when he had a world silver (and he's on good terms with his old coach I believe)

    Sometimes leaving getting a different perspective can really help the skater out. I think Kozuka would benefit from this...Its not necessarily disrespectful to leave. As long as the coach is 1. paid for their work, and given credit respect for their work, and treated respectfully. There's nothing wrong there. Reports are saying that the break up was done harmoniously.
    Last edited by bekalc; 04-26-2012 at 01:40 PM.

  2. #122
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    2,198
    Quote Originally Posted by doctor2014 View Post

    I wish the JSF would have more faith in unknown local coaches, but the JSF is such a bureaucratic agency that you should not expect too much from it.
    I agree. Sometimes, you just have to take a chance, like Yu-Na Kim did with Brian Orser, or Patrick Chan did with Christy Krall. And look how successful Orser and Krall are today! How is Japan ever going to develop more homegrown coaching talent if the JSF ships off its skaters abroad at the first opportunity even when the local coach is doing a good job?

    Daisuke's relationship with Utako Nagamitsu seems very special, and thus I am very glad to hear that the JSF has finally stopped pestering Daisuke to find a bigger-name coach. I once saw a clip of Daisuke putting his Olympic medal around Nagamitsu's neck, and they both looked so incredibly happy together. Knowing all that they went through, the accomplishment must have been extra-sweet for them. If only Yuzuru could do the same with Nanami Abe.....

  3. #123
    Beliver in Sasha's Perfect Program Tinymavy15's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    LA
    Posts
    4,989
    Quote Originally Posted by ImaginaryPogue View Post
    It'll definitely be interesting.

    Orser's quite good at packaging, I feel. He's not great at improving a skater (Gao still has 2A issues, for example), so I don't think Hanyu's stamina will skyrocket or anything, but I do think Orser showcases his skaters quite well.
    I think you caregiving credit to Orser for David Wilson's work. Most skaters who work with Orser get Wilson in the package...and it is the latter that deserves most of the credit.

  4. #124
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    1,038
    As a fan of Yuzuru since 2010, I wish him all the best. I hope some people will not blame him for this, because I doubt he was entirely his decision.

    He is a strong will, determined and competitive boy but he is also very emotional. He loves Nanami Abe, and she will always be the coach who raised him to become a great skater. Break ups don't always have to end in a bad way. Nanami understands her limitations, and the best for Yuzuru might be hurtful for her.

    I don't question Yuzuru's character. It's not going to be easy, but he will adapt. Although admittedly, a 16 hour flight from Toronto to anywhere in Japan is going to be very very tiring. I hope he's mentally ready to face all the challenges ahead

  5. #125
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    3,008
    Yuzuru is only 17 and he has a mother too although we rarely hear about his mother.

  6. #126
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    1,038
    Hold on speculations.....

    Yuzuru will have a press conference on May 7th, perhaps to explain his coaching situation?

    I think a lot of us are more sad about Yuzuru leaving Nanami, than the prospect of Yuzuru going to Brian Orser. :'(
    Last edited by Becki; 04-26-2012 at 10:01 PM.

  7. #127
    Custom Title skateluvr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    2,592
    While I was a little surprised at this decision, we (none of us) know this boy or his coach. He has every right to make a change, and I am sure he was not forced by JSF to leave someone he loved. This clearly says he is ambitious and that Orser is respected as a coach and a two time Olympic medalist-one of Canada's greats. Orser is getting slammed here-like David Wilson is the great talent. David is a choreographer, but he is not there day after day, providing advice, guidance, etc. It seems a lot of people from a couple countries think Yuna is an angelic being and Orser must be somehow tainted because she fired him after the gold medal.
    The Yunabots or Kwan ubers will come out, but when someone wants the OGM as bad as say, Kwan, Kim and Hanyu, and they are big time talented, they will do what they feel they need to get there.

    We may find out that Hanyu values the OGM more than freindship, more than hurting his old coach's feelings. People who are feirce competitors like the aforementioned skaters are not people who worry about hurting other's feeling, generally speaking. These are tough people. Hanyu wants to win a WC and Japan's first OGM. Everyone is telling him he has the ability, but he knows winning requires CoP saavy coaches, the best programs, the best training situation. Maybe he has been pushed a bit by the JSF. They desperately see they can have a OGM maybe in Sochi, maybe in 2018.

    If you look deeply at these skaters who stepped on their coaches a bit, you will see they are champions beause numero uno counts the most. Yuna Kim, MK and YH have the killer instinct that makes an Olympic gold mdalist (or silver or bronze). When you are young, you are naive. These are great skaters, but don't assume you know them because of what you see in the K and C or what so and so says who skates at the rink. I didn't like the side I saw of MK when she fired Lori and Frank, and how ungracious she seemed and sounded, regardless of her thanking him breifly at her induction. But it is easy to love a winner, right? I was not happy to see all the baloney and immaturity from Yuna and her mother. I think Brian was the injured party in that deal. Yuna ubers see her and her mum as beyond any faults, they love her blindly, thinking they know her. But i know only what i saw in the press and on the boards. So I can form an opinion, but it is only that-my opinion based on what I see/saw.

    Hanyu is unknown, and we have no idea whether he is being unkind or disloyal. It matters not really because we are only privvy to what these skaters wish to share with the world. I see this as a good change for Hanyu, and it will make it all the more interesting. If you live long enough you will see that every idol has feet of clay, and that few people are true heroes. Never put celebrity or sports heroes on a pedestal, because they will disappoint you. Try to see Hanyu as a young man who needs to make his own mistakes, and enjoy the skating while we get to watch him. It is pointless to expect a stranger -even one we think we know- to live up to special values that you hold. Winners are tough tough people, and top figure skaters are like this. Heroes are everyday people, firefighters, teachers who sacrifice much for little. Look for your heroes and idols amongst your freinds and neighbors-true character is only shown under adversity, not success.

    I wish him well, and hope he has not hurt his old friend, as I think loyalty is very important-it is everything-but he is choosing a path to bring him success-loyalty must be sacrificed if it gets in the way of your ambition.

    One last note in this thread is coaches can only do so much-but Orser has a short history and a good track record. Many will say Yuna would have won with any top coach, but she had the very best team money could buy. Brian competed at the top for years with amazing results-skaters don't get much better than Mr Triple Axel. Hanyu could do a lot worse- Good decision-he has a chance to beat Patrick Chan in two years and he is going for it. That is sport. Winning is paramount to Hanyu and the JSF. The thought of Orser holding winnie the pooh is hysterical. I hope Brian doesn't go along with that childhish stuff-but It will make for great comedy if he does, LOL.
    Last edited by skateluvr; 04-26-2012 at 10:45 PM.

  8. #128
    Banned
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    311
    Orser is a poacher. There won't be much value he can provide to Yuzuru. Again, bad decision.

  9. #129
    Medalist
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Posts
    97
    Quote Originally Posted by johnny 80 View Post
    You have to understand when Kim moved to Toronto, at that time Orser wasn't engaged in coaching job. he was still touring the shows around the world. He was famous as an athlete, but not as a coach.

    If Kim wanted to seek famous coaches in 2006, he never would be her choice. She would choose Tarasova,Morozov, Carrol,Nicks, Arutunian, Mishin, etc.

    For example, if Stoyko begins coaching job today, Will you trust him as a coach? I don't think so, he is a famous skater, but doesn't prove himself as a coach yet.

    Kim chose David Wilson at first, then chose the coach at the same rink. very unique way to select the coach. And as you know, Although David is a capable guy, he wasn't that famous then as Lori,Tarasova, Morozov...
    I liked Rochette's LP in Torino, though.
    No way Kim would have chosen Russian coaches or US coaches when she aimed for OGM or an Oly medal at VANCOUBER!
    I am guessing the biggest reason she or her mother or her federation or her country picked Orser as her coach was that he was one of the most famous figure skaters in CANADA, he was a big name in CANADA, everyone in CANADA knew about him, and she could work with him in a base in CANADA, where the next Olympic would take place. They must have thought it would be a huge benefit to Kim, and having a big name figure skater of Canada as her coach and having a training base in CANADA would do a lot of help for her at Vancouber Olys. And that's probably the reason they picked Tracy Wilson as an adviser in the Kim camp, who was the most famous TV commentator in Canada back then.
    I heard Kim's camp was totally packed with a lot of specialists and professionals, so they could have helped Orser out a lot even though Orser just started a coaching career back then.
    I think it is a very smart strategy indeed, but also think it might be a common strategy anyone could come up with, when you really aim for OGM or an Olympic
    medal.
    Last edited by Hanaka; 04-26-2012 at 11:38 PM.

  10. #130
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    5,518
    Geez. And CANADA let Yuna beat their own Joannie. I guess they also used up all their power and leverage getting the Gold medals to Kim and V/M that there was no Canadian medalist of any colour for Men and Pairs.

  11. #131
    Rinkside
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    8
    Quote Originally Posted by skateluvr View Post
    While I was a little surprised at this decision, we (none of us) know this boy or his coach. He has every right to make a change, and I am sure he was not forced by JSF to leave someone he loved. This clearly says he is ambitious and that Orser is respected as a coach and a two time Olympic medalist-one of Canada's greats. Orser is getting slammed here-like David Wilson is the great talent. David is a choreographer, but he is not there day after day, providing advice, guidance, etc. It seems a lot of people from a couple countries think Yuna is an angelic being and Orser must be somehow tainted because she fired him after the gold medal.
    The Yunabots or Kwan ubers will come out, but when someone wants the OGM as bad as say, Kwan, Kim and Hanyu, and they are big time talented, they will do what they feel they need to get there.

    We may find out that Hanyu values the OGM more than freindship, more than hurting his old coach's feelings. People who are feirce competitors like the aforementioned skaters are not people who worry about hurting other's feeling, generally speaking. These are tough people. Hanyu wants to win a WC and Japan's first OGM. Everyone is telling him he has the ability, but he knows winning requires CoP saavy coaches, the best programs, the best training situation. Maybe he has been pushed a bit by the JSF. They desperately see they can have a OGM maybe in Sochi, maybe in 2018.

    If you look deeply at these skaters who stepped on their coaches a bit, you will see they are champions beause numero uno counts the most. Yuna Kim, MK and YH have the killer instinct that makes an Olympic gold mdalist (or silver or bronze). When you are young, you are naive. These are great skaters, but don't assume you know them because of what you see in the K and C or what so and so says who skates at the rink. I didn't like the side I saw of MK when she fired Lori and Frank, and how ungracious she seemed and sounded, regardless of her thanking him breifly at her induction. But it is easy to love a winner, right? I was not happy to see all the baloney and immaturity from Yuna and her mother. I think Brian was the injured party in that deal. Yuna ubers see her and her mum as beyond any faults, they love her blindly, thinking they know her. But i know only what i saw in the press and on the boards. So I can form an opinion, but it is only that-my opinion based on what I see/saw.

    Hanyu is unknown, and we have no idea whether he is being unkind or disloyal. It matters not really because we are only privvy to what these skaters wish to share with the world. I see this as a good change for Hanyu, and it will make it all the more interesting. If you live long enough you will see that every idol has feet of clay, and that few people are true heroes. Never put celebrity or sports heroes on a pedestal, because they will disappoint you. Try to see Hanyu as a young man who needs to make his own mistakes, and enjoy the skating while we get to watch him. It is pointless to expect a stranger -even one we think we know- to live up to special values that you hold. Winners are tough tough people, and top figure skaters are like this. Heroes are everyday people, firefighters, teachers who sacrifice much for little. Look for your heroes and idols amongst your freinds and neighbors-true character is only shown under adversity, not success.

    I wish him well, and hope he has not hurt his old friend, as I think loyalty is very important-it is everything-but he is choosing a path to bring him success-loyalty must be sacrificed if it gets in the way of your ambition.

    One last note in this thread is coaches can only do so much-but Orser has a short history and a good track record. Many will say Yuna would have won with any top coach, but she had the very best team money could buy. Brian competed at the top for years with amazing results-skaters don't get much better than Mr Triple Axel. Hanyu could do a lot worse- Good decision-he has a chance to beat Patrick Chan in two years and he is going for it. That is sport. Winning is paramount to Hanyu and the JSF. The thought of Orser holding winnie the pooh is hysterical. I hope Brian doesn't go along with that childhish stuff-but It will make for great comedy if he does, LOL.

    It's true that I may not know much about Yuzuru as a person, but I've seen a lot about him (all of the youtube videos I could find, K&C, documentaries, news articles, etc.) and from what I've seen he is definitely not a person who would hurt Nanami's feelings. I'm not sure because I didn't see this myself, but someone said that Yuzuru mentioned wanting to stay with a Japanese coach for as long as he could? (correct me if I'm wrong here).

    It's true that Yuzuru is really competitive. He said so himself that he always feels really bad when he does poorly and he wants to be the best in the world and maybe win two world golds etc. etc. But I think that his feelings for Nanami are also very strong. He always puts his medals around her neck when he wins them because he gives her a lot of credit for what he accomplishes, he obviously shows great connection during the kiss and cry, and he's stuck with her since who knows how long ago.

    Even if it were true that he values the OGM more than the feelings of his coach, his skating friends (who he seems to love very much), and his school friends I don't see the real reason for the switch. Perhaps if he had had a bad season and hadn't been improving over the last few years, then yes the change would be very reasonable. But it's clear that he's only been improving by leaps and bounds in the past few years especially, and his senior debut was not bad at all. I don't see why people think Nanami isn't qualified to be his coach. True, he did have other coaches choreograph, but Nanami was still his main coach. Just because she hasn't had other amazing WC skaters? All coaches start somewhere. They don't suddenly just one day become famous and amazing. They all had to have their first good skater.

    I definitely think the JSF has a great deal to do with this. I'm pretty sure Yuzuru is not the kind of person who would just up and leave his coach after pretty much his whole skating career. He's a very sentimental guy, as you can tell from the interviews about the earthquake and stuff like that. And I definitely think his reactions after his programs show a lot of his personality. By then you're too tired to try to put on a facade and pretend to be a good person. You're definitely letting your true self show in the K&C and right after the end of the program.

    I'm not saying Orser isn't a good coach or anything. I just don't think he's right for Yuzuru.

  12. #132
    Medalist
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Posts
    97
    Quote Originally Posted by SkateFiguring View Post
    Geez. And CANADA let Yuna beat their own Joannie. I guess they also used up all their power and leverage getting the Gold medals to Kim and V/M that there was no Canadian medalist of any colour for Men and Pairs.
    I love Jannie, but she was not an OGM contender.

  13. #133
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    5,518
    Quote Originally Posted by Hanaka View Post
    I love Jannie, but she was not an OGM contender.
    So, Yuna earned it after all?

  14. #134
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    423
    Quote Originally Posted by Hanaka View Post
    No way Kim would have chosen Russian coaches or US coaches when she aimed for OGM or an Oly medal at VANCOUBER!
    I am guessing the biggest reason she or her mother or her federation or her country picked Orser as her coach was that he was one of the most famous figure skaters in CANADA, he was a big name in CANADA, everyone in CANADA knew about him, and she could work with him in a base in CANADA, where the next Olympic would take place. They must have thought it would be a huge benefit to Kim, and having a big name figure skater of Canada as her coach and having a training base in CANADA would do a lot of help for her at Vancouber Olys. And that's probably the reason they picked Tracy Wilson as an adviser in the Kim camp, who was the most famous TV commentator in Canada back then.
    I heard Kim's camp was totally packed with a lot of specialists and professionals, so they could have helped Orser out a lot even though Orser just started a coaching career back then.
    I think it is a very smart strategy indeed, but also think it might be a common strategy anyone could come up with, when you really aim for OGM or an Olympic
    medal.
    Simply not true.
    It was a bold move of her to ask Orser
    who wasn't even a coach to become her coach. If she really wanted a Canadian coach strategically, she would have asked Doug Leigh the most experienced and respected Canadian coach. But, she didn't. She chose the Cricket club because she liked David and his coreography so much. As David revealed in the interview, he introduced Brian to her.

    It was not a bad idea to choose a Canadian coach for the Vancouver Olympic but how could it be a decisive factor? How impotant would it be?
    Did internationl judges give extra points to her because of her Canadian coach?
    Last edited by cosmos; 04-27-2012 at 03:14 AM.

  15. #135
    Rinkside
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    8
    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebonnet View Post
    I agree. If you really want to change, change it whole heartedly without looking back. Then you'll have increased chance of being successful. Is there any examples of long distance traveling for coaches and successful?
    I think a lot of senior skaters traveled long distance at one point or another in their career in order to train with a certain coach, and a lot of them are successful, like Yuna.
    I don't think that Yuzuru should change completely. Is it possible for him to go back to Nanami if Orser doesn't work out well? If not, then it's definitely better to stay half and half.

Page 9 of 13 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •