Can Agnes Zawadzki break through next season?

I don't see Agnes breaking through next season. IMO, she has too much to work on. First is her consistency. As a senior, she's shown no ability to do a clean (or even relatively clean) long program. Second, her packaging needs a LOT of improvement--better programs, costumes, musicality, attention to detail. And yes, softening her hair/makeup.

Agnes has a ton of talent, but I think her development may be a multi-year process, sort of like Carolina Kostner's. Some skaters, like Michelle, Yu-Na, and Mao, somehow burst onto the senior scene with all the pieces in place. But for most skaters, it's a longer process to find out what works for them as competitors. Carolina is really the perfect example. It took her years to figure out how to harness her natural speed and jumping ability to best effect. And like Agnes, Carolina is tall and womanly; the traditional "ice princess" look didn't really suit her, and she had to develop her own style. In the last 2 years, she has finally found the right packaging and training approach, and it's all come together.

I think the same thing could happen for Agnes, but it will take time.

Sylvia said:

Re. the comment above "... Flatt like dumpage at Nationals...":
Flatt skated well in her 2012 Nationals free skate (her best performance of the season, landing 5 of 6 planned triples) and finished 4th in that segment. I thought she was scored fairly and received the marks she deserved.

Back to Agnes Z... with Christy Krall no longer coaching Patrick Chan, perhaps Zawadzki and Krall's other students will be receiving more time/attention and improvements will be noticeable in the coming season? We shall see.

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Yes, Rachael was scored fairly in the FS at Nationals, but remember last season when she scored 121+ for a FS that was not as good? The point is she was "dumped" not in that her scores were unfair, but rather that they were fair, as opposed to inflated as they had been in the past. I think the poster meant Alissa will no longer be held up at Nationals now that the Worlds disaster has happened. So her performances from this year's nationals, instead of scoring 63 and 116, would more likely be around 55 and 105, which is what she likely would have gotten for those performances internationally.

silverlake22 said:

Yes, Rachael was scored fairly in the FS at Nationals, but remember last season when she scored 121+ for a FS that was not as good? The point is she was "dumped" not in that her scores were unfair, but rather that they were fair, as opposed to inflated as they had been in the past. I think the poster meant Alissa will no longer be held up at Nationals now that the Worlds disaster has happened. So her performances from this year's nationals, instead of scoring 63 and 116, would more likely be around 55 and 105, which is what she likely would have gotten for those performances internationally.

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Was she scored fairly in the FS this year? Her PCS was 7th or 8th and she skated with much more conviction that maybe all of them save Ashley. She got one of two standing Os for ladies.
She was definitely dumped this year.

I can see Tonya Harding's point. To be honest, if I had a son or daighter, I wouldn't encourage them to take up figure skating either. For the girls, it's asking them to have eating disorders and self-esteem issues. For the boys, they should be roughing it up. For both of them, why enter them into pre-judged sporting events? Why go into a sport in which a competitor can be "dumped" or have their scores "inflated" or not win because they lack "momentum?"

FlattFan said:

Was she scored fairly in the FS this year? Her PCS was 7th or 8th and she skated with much more conviction that maybe all of them save Ashley. She got one of two standing Os for ladies.
She was definitely dumped this year.

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Fair for skating in penultimate group, I'd say. Her score would have been higher had she made the final flight, I'm almost certain.

silverlake22 said:

Fair for skating in penultimate group, I'd say. Her score would have been higher had she made the final flight, I'm almost certain.

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Hence, the unfair dumping. They don't have to hold her down, and they did. She should have 3rd or 2nd highest PCS of the night.

FlattFan said:

Hence, the unfair dumping. They don't have to hold her down, and they did. She should have 3rd or 2nd highest PCS of the night.

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It may be unfair but lower scoring in earlier groups is not something specific to Rachel; it happens to everyone. I think after the SP it was fair for the judges to think the final group would have skated much better than they actually did.

chuckm said:

Had Laura Lepisto been ugly, she would never have won a World bronze medal.

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Yes but fortunately she is stunningly beautiful and her skating was good enough to deserve her medal. #3-5 placements were very close from what I remember.

Nothing against Kiira who I consider to be a beautiful woman too, I never understood why she got more attention over Laura in the Finnish press. Or maybe it just seemed that way to me.

I much prefer how Laura moves across the ice than the awkwardness we see from Kiira at times. Korpi is definitely a natural blond Nordic beauty. She is stunning and millions of men would die mto be with her. Lepisto, being brunette does not have that flash that blonds do. So many women dye their hairblond because they do get more attention if it's dyed well. Jessica Simpson does not want to be brunette. I think Laura is really lovely-the word was made for her graceful figure, feminine look and elegance while doing a difficult sport. I can only say I knew she would not return and I am glad she won that bronze. The glam is part of why we all love skating, the costumes, hair and makeup in all aspects of the sport are fun. But at the end of the day, it should be the skating, but beauty is a part of skating more and more and attractive people do better in many other areas-the studies are there. In skating, it is just so obvious with the closeups. Remember when people thought MK was ugly? Then with a bit of makeup and an adorable costume, pretty Michelle emerged in Romanza. I think she is beautiful. Not LuChen beautiful, but stunning. Asian women have the bodies people love and there is no end to attractive Asian women. So Asian beauties have done very well in this sport. Look at the last two OGMs in ladies. Is it unimportant to their success that Shizuka is as beautiful as a woman (Japanese) gets? And Yuna? I said she must be as pretty as any top Korean model, maybe not as tall, but beauty matters so much-look at the beauty threads-men and women.

I have often wondered how it is that top ice dancers are always so stunning. You can't blame people for being smitten when Punsalen and Swallow had their closeups. So many gorgeous people, it is odd when someone isn't gorgeous. Akiko has been slammed for not being a Japanese beauty in the Shizuka mold. She sure set the bar high for Japanese skaters! Mao isn't like that but her delicacy and beautiful style makes her stunning along with her fairy princess costumes. We can be annoyed when Rachel gets slammed and we should be. Look at her at 14 and she was tiny. This sport seems to encourage small people. The men are getting very short. I look at Boitano, and then Dai and say, well, it is increasingly an Asian sport at the top.

I find Dai adorable but too short for me. And Patrick's smile and bright funny eyes grow on me. But it is wonderful to look back and see tall men like Curry and Cousins (and yes Evan!) make these incredible lines. I think Carolina and Alissa were helped so much through the years with those stunning bodies. It is indeed breathtaking to watch Caro now, when she puts it all together. If she does three jumps, I am still mesmerized by her long limbs and how she moves now. Just stunning. But I wish there were a place for women with weight and curves and there seems not to be in any discipline. Dorothy Hamill would be called fat now. And we know what Tonya went through with her body when she was compared to tiny Yama and perfect Nancy. Skating and dance are so tough on women. The world is tough on all women with weight. I was naturally thin, but meds changed that. Men can be awful, and so apparently are judges. I am a Rach fan, and I think she was screwed at Olympics to repeat it. She truly deserved 4th or 5th. I preferred Magical Mirai but Rach was so much better than Miki. I defy anyone to watch Miki's Oly LP. It was so uncomfortable to watch. An awful program, costume, and a very unconvincing Miki. I blame Morozov but the skate was awful and Rach was clean and magical in her SP and LP. Her posture is not bad. She does not have a neck, so her shoulders seem hunched when they are not. She was wonderful at the Olympics. I was very proud of her and Mirai...it was amazing how perfectly each skated at that huge venue with the likes of Queen Yuna and triple axel Mao. Not to mention the real star of Vancouver, Joannie.

Flatt is quite a gal.

Kind of amazing how far off topic we've gone here...:think:

It is. I mean I wasn't aware that Agnes was at the Olympics

For the record, I think Agnes is very pretty. May not in a traditional pretty-princess sense, but definitely a very attractive young woman, stunning, even. Her looks are unique. And I love her figure and don't find it masculine at all. Her statuesque height, willowy arms, and strong, shapely legs are lovely for this sport, and her muscle tone is truly impressive. At least that's how I see it, I don't see Agnes's looks or body type as being things that could potentially set her back in her skating career at all, she simply needs to be more consistent with her jumps, and if she can do that, I expect her to do very well and get great marks.

I was really wowed by her talent when she was a "new it girl" several seasons ago. Then there was disappointment season after season. I raised my hope during this year's Nationals but.. I sincerely hope she'd break through this time simply because she's too good to be missed on world scene. I don't wanna think about "otherwise" option for her

She needs to find consistency in the long program, that is all.

Why not meander as every thread does, it is the off season. Gorgeous women get better scores. That was debated as not true but we all know it is. Tis true!

Speak for yourself, skateluver. I think that theory is a bunch of baloney.

And yeah, Agnes needs to stop blowing her long program. I hope she can figure things out.

l'etoile said:

I was really wowed by her talent when she was a "new it girl" several seasons ago. Then there was disappointment season after season. I raised my hope during this year's Nationals but.. I sincerely hope she'd break through this time simply because she's too good to be missed on world scene. I don't wanna think about "otherwise" option for her

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Agnes has only skated Senior two seasons. She has more then enough time to improve. She might be a late bloomer who might not peak for another 3-5 years if she hangs around that long.

She won't have the money to skate as she has for 3-5 seasons. She does not have the blatant support that Alissa gets. And why would that be? Glamour. I hope Agnes does "break through" this season and she might be a US Champion one day, but I think Ashley is going to be tougher to beat next year at home and abroad. Caroline has earned new respect and is so well liked. Then comes Gracie. Sometimes skaters like Agnes get their one season. I would say maybe she already had her day. But given her youth, we must give her the benefit of the doubt. She really must do well this season, as she struggles financially. Windows of opportunity close fast in skating unless you are a rich kid. Look at Mirai's trajectory. Will she be an afterthought next season? It's make it fast now or give it up UNLESS you are a rich girl or boy.

i also believe glamour points are given. it's quite revolting in some instances (i.e. when i disagree that the recipient is deserving of such glamour points... i wouldn't argue with katia gordeeva being invited to landover with her unstable 2a and 3t, for instance... because katia is one of the all time greats ^__^ )

on a completely serious note, though, wasn't it said that gracie attended WTT because caroline and agnes turned the opportunity down? i don't think you'll find it in print (the only thing you'll find in print is czisny turning it down), but if you read the various threads here and on FSU it's strongly hinted that gracie wasn't the first in line. i think someone even posted that the other u.s. ladies will rue the day they let gracie skate in WTT in their stead...

point is, if agnes truly turned down WTT and the money involved, maybe it means her financial situation has improved from when the TV talking heads last told us about her family's hardships? i hope so, at least.

skfan said:

i also believe glamour points are given. it's quite revolting in some instances (i.e. when i disagree that the recipient is deserving of such glamour points... i wouldn't argue with katia gordeeva being invited to landover with her unstable 2a and 3t, for instance... because katia is one of the all time greats ^__^ )

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Agnes is an attractive girl. I don't think glamour hurts Agnes as much as the fact her movement is a bit awkward, almost coltish, on the ice. She has glimpses of elegance but to me it isn't all there yet. For me I'd like to see her avoid the sleeveless dresses because she has very muscular shoulders that may detract from a more feminine look.