Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 1 2 3 LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 32

Thread: David Wilson will work with Gachinski and Tuktamysheva

  1. #16
    Custom Title gopatrick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Canada...or wandering
    Posts
    143
    Quote Originally Posted by ciocio View Post
    Lol!!!! Do you think that Gachinsky will become a copy of Kurt or Wilson?? A good choreographer is able to create a program that fits the skater's ability and personality!
    Well, I just pointed out the strenghs of these choreographers after all. Neither ET nor AG could skate DW/KB's choreography to its protential at the moment.

  2. #17
    Trixie Schuba's biggest fan! blue dog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    San Diego, CA
    Posts
    2,092
    Quote Originally Posted by johnny 80 View Post
    You are right. That's what I worry about. Gachinsky's 2 programs this season are choreographed by Tom Dickson. and as you know They are watered down. should not be repeated.

    They got to learn from athletes like Takahashi, Kostner who are faithful to programs to the end of the season. To be faithful to programs is a requisite for masterpieces.
    Agreed. At this point, even George BAlanchine back from the dead can choreograph a program for a skater, but its up to the skater to bring that choreography to life.

  3. #18
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    3,643
    Quote Originally Posted by mskater93 View Post
    I think doug_log is implying they were higher than he/she felt they should have been. If the programs are empty (evangeline's post) and the skater is slow (doctor2014's post), then the PCS should be lower.
    They are saying it was too high I am saying it was too low! Like I think they say Gachinski should get 2's or 3's! Gachinski when he is on is not slow at all. The 2012 Euros SP was amazing on every level and so was the LP. He was like that at 2011 worlds and the judges treated him very very harshly. His medal was all due to base values of technical elements.
    Last edited by gmyers; 04-27-2012 at 06:24 PM.

  4. #19
    Like subtlety in ice dancing Serious Business's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    1,452
    The old saying comes to mind, you can lead a horse to water...

    Or the more scurrilous variation by Dorothy Parker.

  5. #20
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    5,609
    Heh. The title should read "Wilson will work with Gachinski and Tukatmysheva; Mishin will undo much of the work done."

  6. #21
    Rinkside
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    4
    Good for them! ( and also good for me cause i won't need to hear Edvin Marton's music )
    Quote Originally Posted by ImaginaryPogue View Post
    Heh. The title should read "Wilson will work with Gachinski and Tukatmysheva; Mishin will undo much of the work done."
    oops, I misread as "Mishin won't..."
    Last edited by mintchococaffe; 04-28-2012 at 06:39 PM.

  7. #22
    Custom Title macy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    556
    liza won't have middle-of-the-rink programs anymore! wooooo for ice coverage and better choreography!

  8. #23
    Tripping on the Podium
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    City of rains
    Posts
    74
    People are too harsh towards Artur and Liza, IMO. Artur especially, the kid definately has his short-comings but he does rather well for himself. He's not a young new star maybe like Yuzuru but compare him to Adam (i.e. another kid who was promising), he's not worse medals-wise. And he had not the best season but nothing like Alissa's disaster (lol, and her choreo was not a masterpiece either, such an old princess-ly boring BS). It's a pity Artur's an only somewhat decent Russian male skater at the moment but that's not his fault.
    It's not to hear that Mishin's trying out new choreographers though. I think he's really trying to find a new style for the young kids, he's still bend on the jumps but somewhat but he's entitled to his vision on the sport.

  9. #24
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Beyond Neverland
    Posts
    1,222
    Okay so David Wilson is doing programs for Patrick Chan, Hanyu and Artur next season? Who else?

    That is pretty incredible and I can't help but wonder if there could be some potential conflict of interest? It would be interesting to see which out of the 3 programs ends up being the best. He might have to play this very carefully and not to have favourites (pretty impossible if you ask me) otherwise he might ends up on either Canada, Japan or Russia's black list next year.

    I really look forward to see what he does for Liza, David is capable of producing great lyrical choreography, and Liza is one of the most musical young skaters today. Would it be another match made in heaven or mediocre hell?
    Last edited by os168; 04-28-2012 at 04:25 PM.

  10. #25
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    5,428
    ^^^^Where did you get the information that Wilson is doing Chan's choreography next season? Is this confirmed? I only know he did Mannish Boy for Chan's ex program.

    Have there been cases of Lori Nichol's choreography being watered down? I know she works with the skater's current abilities and adjusts the program on an on-going basis if needed. She tells her clients to come back when they have actually acquired a new skill instead of putting in the element/steps in anticipation. It is indeed a collaborative effort with her. Some skaters, with their coaches, tend to simplify the choreography designed for them because they can't keep up with it and still do the jumps. IOW, the choreography is too difficult. In such cases, the choreographer has a responsibility in the subsequent result as well, either they were led to believe too much of the skater's abilities or they design more of their own program than what suits the client best.

  11. #26
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Beyond Neverland
    Posts
    1,222
    Quote Originally Posted by SkateFiguring View Post
    ^^^^Where did you get the information that Wilson is doing Chan's choreography next season? Is this confirmed? I only know he did Mannish Boy for Chan's ex program.

    Have there been cases of Lori Nichol's choreography being watered down? I know she works with the skater's current abilities and adjusts the program on an on-going basis if needed. She tells her clients to come back when they have actually acquired a new skill instead of putting in the element/steps in anticipation. It is indeed a collaborative effort with her. Some skaters, with their coaches, tend to simplify the choreography designed for them because they can't keep up with it and still do the jumps. IOW, the choreography is too difficult. In such cases, the choreographer has a responsibility in the subsequent result as well, either they were led to believe too much of the skater's abilities or they design more of their own program than what suits the client best.
    Oh I thought Patrick have expressed he want try someone else other than Lori now? Especially now he seems to want to relocate back to Toronto for good having parted with his previous coach. Am I wrong? I assumed he'd goto Wilson since he is doing Mannish boy with already, you might as well get 2 - might be cheaper ;P Same with Buttle I guess?

    Yeah choreography is a funny thing, as with anything that requires creativity, there's literally no guarantee if something will work even if you have the best talent and the most knowlegeable choreographer. The only thing that work is probably the scoring provided the skater hit the elements as prescribed. This should not be the sole objective of a successful program. Any number of things can go wrong, ie/ chemistry, the content, the conceptual framing, the musical qualities, xfactors (something beyond on paper), and critically the 'honesty' and the 'truth' fully realized by the performer etc. It is like sometime very expensive productions from Hollywood may have some of best people and special effects in the business, it can still feel kind of empty, dry and shallow. Devoid of spontaneity and surprise, especially when it is too carefully thought out to be 'suitable' for the skater, with in the 'limitation' of the skater based on tried and tested results.
    Last edited by os168; 04-28-2012 at 05:08 PM.

  12. #27
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    5,428
    Quote Originally Posted by os168 View Post
    Oh I thought Patrick have expressed he want try someone else other than Lori now? Especially now he seems to want to relocate back to Toronto for good having parted with his previous coach. Am I wrong? I assumed he'd goto Wilson since he is doing Mannish boy with already, you might as well get 2 - might be cheaper ;P Same with Buttle I guess?
    Too many assumptions which may just get spread as facts. Patrick is friends with various Canadian choreographers and it's good and natural he has them do his exhibition programs to showcase his versatility. Lori is said to be in conflict with a Team Chan member and a skater twitted a catty comment that she was "done with Patrick" but we fans have not heard official words about the state of Chan/Nichol relationship or who would choreograph Patrick's new programs. It's wait and see for now.

    eta. I just checked Chan's ISU Bio and while Kathy Johnson is listed as his coach and Krall as a former coach, Lori Nichol is still listed as his choreographer.

    Yeah choreography is a funny thing, as with anything that requires creativity, there's literally no guarantee if something will work even if you have the best talent and the most knowlegeable choreographer. The only thing that work is probably the scoring provided the skater hit the elements as prescribed. This should not be the sole objective of a successful program. Any number of things can go wrong, ie/ chemistry, the content, the conceptual framing, the musical qualities, xfactors (something beyond on paper), and critically the 'honesty' and the 'truth' fully realized by the performer etc. It is like sometime very expensive productions from Hollywood may have some of best people and special effects in the business, it can still feel kind of empty, dry and shallow. Devoid of spontaneity and surprise, especially when it is too carefully thought out to be 'suitable' for the skater, with in the 'limitation' of the skater based on tried and tested results.
    The coach too is involved. S/he may have different ideas from the skater and/or the choreographer about the skills, the style, or the direction for the skater. If the coach does not believe the skater could, or should invest in developing skills to, execute the program well, the coach may prefer to drop certain parts. This tends to happen more with jump-centric skaters and coaches. OTOH, skaters are known to go back to Lori Nichol to fine tune specific segments of the program worth a couple of seconds and she takes on a coaching/trainer role working with the skater to get it just right for him or her. Not surprisingly, these tend to be the very elite skaters including World or even Olympic champions. There is a commitment from all involved. They don't buy a choreography like a blueprint.

    Wilson is a world class choreographer and is likely to do well for these talented skaters. Evidently the Russian federation understands the benefits of going to the best for best results. So far Morozov seems to be the only Russian coach who has restricted his edification of foreign skaters contending for Sochi medals. Mishin never trains non Russians anyway, does he?
    Last edited by SkateFiguring; 04-28-2012 at 07:56 PM.

  13. #28
    At the rink. Again. mskater93's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    3,193
    Quote Originally Posted by os168 View Post
    Okay so David Wilson is doing programs for Patrick Chan, Hanyu and Artur next season? Who else?

    That is pretty incredible and I can't help but wonder if there could be some potential conflict of interest? It would be interesting to see which out of the 3 programs ends up being the best. He might have to play this very carefully and not to have favourites (pretty impossible if you ask me) otherwise he might ends up on either Canada, Japan or Russia's black list next year.
    If he does all three skaters' programs, I am guessing Hanyu's will be best because he will be able to work with him nearly every day.

  14. #29
    leave no stone unturned seniorita's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    5,579
    If Wilson does a choreo for Liza like Yuna's James Bond Im all for it! :D I like his work with ladies best so I m not sure about Arthur there, with the exception of Daisuke, Kozuka and Abott that would skate anything great anyway, I cant recall much of his work with men. I know he has made a lot I just dont remember them. His work with Weir and Joubert I didnt like, I dont think it suited them.

  15. #30
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    1,769
    Quote Originally Posted by seniorita View Post
    If Wilson does a choreo for Liza like Yuna's James Bond Im all for it! :D I like his work with ladies best so I m not sure about Arthur there, with the exception of Daisuke, Kozuka and Abott that would skate anything great anyway, I cant recall much of his work with men. I know he has made a lot I just dont remember them. His work with Weir and Joubert I didnt like, I dont think it suited them.
    seniorita, David Wilson has done a lot of choreographies for Jeffrey Buttle's competitive programs over the years, which, I guess, may change your image on Mens programs by David. maybe?

    I agree with you on "Daisuke, Takahiko and Jeremy could skate anything great anyway".

    As for world's top chreographers such as Lori and David, while they professionally manage to cope with COP, they can do wonders with their creativity. You mentioning Weir and Joubert with David's works, Mirai with Lori's works comes to my mind. So yes, as others already indicated, it really depneds on its skaters and their coaches how their programs to come alive(, or make it look deadly boring ).

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 1 2 3 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •