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Thread: Canadian Ladies: Where do they go from here?

  1. #31
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    After 2009-2010 data is deleted and 2010-2011 is reduced to 70%, new World Rankings:

    15 Meite
    19 Lacoste
    24 Phaneuf
    25 C. Zhang
    31 Popova
    43 Agafonova
    50 Marrocco
    63 Mellgren
    72 S. Ishikawa
    112 Ovcharova


    Seasons Best Rankings

    09 176.18 C. Zhang
    34 148.65 Agafonova
    35 148.48 Lacoste
    39 147.47 Phaneuf
    41 146.25 Osmond
    42 145.44 Meite
    52 138.60 Popova
    64 129.48 DeSanctis
    66 128.66 Charbonneau
    68 126.97 Marrocco
    71 123.67 Purich
    76 122.14 S. Ishikawa

    No Seasons Best Rank (did not compete in JGP, GP or ISU Championship):
    Mellgren
    Ovcharova

  2. #32
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    Sorry, I guess it's not correct to use the season's rankings from ISU page. I understood these to be th rankings from Past season only. If anyone wants to make the same mistake, they can find the season rankings on the ISU page. The world rankings can also be found there.

  3. #33
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    The ISU uses the trimmed World Rankings (not the Seasons Rankings) and the Seasons Best list for Grand Prix assignments.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckm View Post
    The ISU uses the trimmed World Rankings (not the Seasons Rankings) and the Seasons Best list for Grand Prix assignments.
    Thanks, Chuckm, I wasn't actually musing about Grand Prix assignments. It would seem that those will be rather rare for our ladies this year, and I wouldn't want to make things look worse than they are.

    I was just using those figures to see how the ladies stacked up in actual competitions last year, unaware that nobody else does that.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by hohoho View Post
    So how does Skate Canada decide who geets what slots? Should Skate Canada use one of the summer comps as a qualifier (ie, Quebec, Thornhill, Minto, Wildrose)? Or do they rely on monitoring practice sessions and local competitions where there isn't much competition for the top 1-2-3 skaters? If Skate Canada wants to develop the young skaters it has to push more and tougher competition. Maybe pushing a competition in the US? Canadian skaters have to train and compete as if they are competing on the international stage and not just to win nationals. With that mindset, Nationals will eventually get tougher. It all takes time.
    Minto has effectively become the Canadian equivalent Lake Placid competition for ice dance. The fields in the other disciplines are very weak but all the ice dancers show up.


    One of the biggest problems with summer competitions is that with the exception of Thornhill, ( pre-novice to junior ) , there are no event finals where the fields are so large that the ladies have to be separated into multiple groups. Therefore the effective fields ( only those in the skater's group ) are diluted and weak. The best skaters almost never face off against each other.

    It is not abnormal for a junior lady to win a group with nothing more than a double axel. And usually these ladies aren't even attempting triples as they do not even try them in warmup.

    SC must insist on event finals at all events at all levels starting at pre-juvenile. The atmosphere of the best pushing each other must start early.

  6. #36
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    Hi Nadster. I believe event finals are a help, but not all disciplines have enough skaters involved to have an event, alone an event final. Senior Ladies at Wildrose last year had 8 skaters registered with only one skater actually arriving. I agree that the lower levels (Pre-Juv to Pre-Novice) have larger numbers and should have finals. By doing the finals though, the event organisers would lose money on the event as they will not be able to have as many skaters (time restrictions). Most of these events are major funding events for sections and clubs. More skaters = more funds. Skate Canada would have to mandate an event final before that would change.

    Perhaps Skate Canada has to push Minto as the JGP "consideration" competition. If you don't compete there, you don't be considered. I understand as Canadians we try to be diplomatic and treat everyone the same. But when it comes to representing your country you have to hold "tryouts". Hockey Canada does it for Junior Hockey - camp in summer and another before Junior Worlds before team is selected. Skate Canada can use a summer comp and Nationals. We have the events, Skate Canada just has to push it. They can rotate events also between Minto, Quebec, BC, Wildrose, Thornhill. Or they could select skaters and push a US competition (Detroit, Liberty, etc).

  7. #37
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    Liberty is almost a Canadian home away from home, since it is the working location of Uschi Kessler, Elvis Stojko's choreographer, and her Hydroblade institute.

    There are always quite a few Canadians competing at Liberty summer competition, both in singles & pairs.

    And it looks like there will be a Senior b in Salt Lake City this year. Perhaps Canadian ladies could compete there?

    Finally, Skate Canada should get a Senior B started in Canada.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by hohoho View Post
    Hi Nadster. I believe event finals are a help, but not all disciplines have enough skaters involved to have an event, alone an event final. Senior Ladies at Wildrose last year had 8 skaters registered with only one skater actually arriving. I agree that the lower levels (Pre-Juv to Pre-Novice) have larger numbers and should have finals. By doing the finals though, the event organisers would lose money on the event as they will not be able to have as many skaters (time restrictions). Most of these events are major funding events for sections and clubs. More skaters = more funds. Skate Canada would have to mandate an event final before that would change.

    Perhaps Skate Canada has to push Minto as the JGP "consideration" competition. If you don't compete there, you don't be considered. I understand as Canadians we try to be diplomatic and treat everyone the same. But when it comes to representing your country you have to hold "tryouts". Hockey Canada does it for Junior Hockey - camp in summer and another before Junior Worlds before team is selected. Skate Canada can use a summer comp and Nationals. We have the events, Skate Canada just has to push it. They can rotate events also between Minto, Quebec, BC, Wildrose, Thornhill. Or they could select skaters and push a US competition (Detroit, Liberty, etc).
    I do agree that at the junior and senior levels that there should be a central competition that is at least heavily weighted for assignments.

    The event finals IMO are most important at the lower levels. ( ie pre-novice and below ). One extra flight to skate the free only should not be too much of a burden when you have had 7 flights of ladies already skating SP and free. Consdiering in a 4 day event ( length of a summer competition in larger sections where multiple flights is an issue) , the lower level events are usually held on Thursday, Friday, it should not be too much of a burden to put one extra flight on a Saturday or Sunday.

    Thornhill years ago used to have event finals at all levels and then it disappeared. They reintroduced them from pre-novice to junior 2 years ago.

    Quote Originally Posted by dorispulaski View Post
    Liberty is almost a Canadian home away from home, since it is the working location of Uschi Kessler, Elvis Stojko's choreographer, and her Hydroblade institute.

    There are always quite a few Canadians competing at Liberty summer competition, both in singles & pairs.

    And it looks like there will be a Senior b in Salt Lake City this year. Perhaps Canadian ladies could compete there?

    Finally, Skate Canada should get a Senior B started in Canada.
    SC did plan last year to get a senior B started in Thornhill but aborted the plan at the last minute ( why I don't know ). If one is in SLC, I doubt that Canada will follow with one.
    Last edited by nadster; 04-29-2012 at 03:55 PM.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by hohoho View Post
    I believe event finals are a help, but not all disciplines have enough skaters involved to have an event, alone an event final. Senior Ladies at Wildrose last year had 8 skaters registered with only one skater actually arriving. I agree that the lower levels (Pre-Juv to Pre-Novice) have larger numbers and should have finals. By doing the finals though, the event organisers would lose money on the event as they will not be able to have as many skaters (time restrictions). Most of these events are major funding events for sections and clubs. More skaters = more funds. Skate Canada would have to mandate an event final before that would change.
    Event finals would add minimal costs to the event. It's one or two warm-up groups flights of ladies from Pre-Juvenile to Senior. Long Programs only. If there is only one flight of Sr. Ladies, then nothing is changed, but it is critical that the lower levels have the opportunity to compete against the best at their level. The rest of the disciplines are all finals
    Last edited by Dragonlady; 04-29-2012 at 05:55 PM.

  10. #40
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    Canada has always had some capable ladies. There are several problems however. First,there seems to be the attitude that multiple local medals are what brings you to SC notice rather than how those medals were obtained(or not). Hence few are inclined to put themselves up against major competition rather than stay home and medal. Second,SC needs to take the brakes off the judges and reign in local Sections and let a good prospect challenge or even maul the Phaneufs or other favoured skaters. It is no coincidence that we tend to have had weak skaters dominate up to seven years while really capable skaters get frustrated and leave the sport. There needs to be identification and group travel arrangements for top competitions for younger skaters, and yes,ALL competitions need to have a final flight. Also,seminars need to be taken out of the hands of local Sections and their politics where skaters showing promise are sent to work with Juveniles while less talented skaters favoured over them receive useless (for them) top coaching experiences.

  11. #41
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    I'm inclined to agree. Skate Canada has publicly stated, in the past, that the public demanded stars, and hero-worship was the thing that would foster public interest. They have clung to that notion for years, regardless of waning public interest.

    What would happen if the Toronto Maple Leafs were the only team that got publicity, only their games were broadcast, the analysts spoke only of them, and hockey broadcasts were full of fluff pieces on their famillies. I don't think people would be as interested in hockey as they are now.

    It seems to me that it is competition that breeds interest. People love to try to pick a winner.

  12. #42
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    Skate Canada has to do a better job of marketing its skaters. Right now the only time you will hear of anything is from the GP to Worlds. And limited exposure then. It is too late to develop hype over nationals when the event starts. I have heard alot of positive feedback regarding nationals this year and the last groups of ladies, pairs, and dance skating back to back. But the other groups should be televised or at least available to the public. To be honest, if Phaneuf had of faltered a little more, she wouldn't have been in the top 6, hence would have skated in the earlier groups. How much hype was generated that the ladies was going to be a battle between Phaneuf and Lacoste. There was a little blurb on Skatebuzz over skaters to watch. That didn't make it to TV. There is so much hype over skaters in the US, Russia, Japan, etc, but in Canada you hardly hear of any skaters other than Chan or Virtue/Moir. Phaneuf is doing SOIC but what is Lacoste doing? If there is hype, you get viewers. Look at Olympics '88 - forever remembered as the "Battle of the Brians". If you get the viewers, the sponsors will follow. Seeing that then team event is a World and Olympic event, perhaps each section that has the required skaters can have an event during the novice/junior time at nationals before the Senior Nationals begin (similar to Olympics). There are alot of things that can be done. More competition, more marketing, more sponsorship.

  13. #43
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    I'm dismayed to hear of the positive feedback on the format of this year's Nationals. Up to this point, I hadn't heard of any, and was hoping it would be viewed as a failed experiment.

    You do point out one of my objections; the appearance of pre selection. How can you hype the skaters without pre-selection? Was there ever a realistic chance that Cynthia or Amalie would not be in the last group?

  14. #44
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    There are 2 things that can be done:

    1. Grade skaters correctly at nationals, without extra PCS for bad performances by previous heroines, like Cynthia
    2. Host a Senior B, to get the youngsters some exposure to International judging as early as possible

    When someone like Cynthia is continuously held up, the younger girls have to believe it is not worth trying in singles, and they drift off to pairs & dance.

    But each time I read the question in the title, I hope the answer is "Upward".

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by dorispulaski View Post

    1. Grade skaters correctly at nationals, without extra PCS for bad performances by previous heroines, like Cynthia


    .
    And this would hardly be the first time. In 1996, Skate Canada went with Jennifer Robinson after former champion, Josee Chouinard (and Grand Prix Final qualifier) fell apart in the free skate.

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