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Thread: Canadian Ladies: Where do they go from here?

  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by blue dog View Post
    And this would hardly be the first time. In 1996, Skate Canada went with Jennifer Robinson after former champion, Josee Chouinard (and Grand Prix Final qualifier) fell apart in the free skate.
    The two poster girls for Canadian Women's skating. Let's move on from there.

  2. #47
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    It is too bad that the "old system" is still very evident in the COP. And with Skate Canada focusing so much on Cynthia at Nationals and having to do a skate off at 4CC, did it send a message to skaters that all I have to do is get to her "standards". Chartrand had higher TES scores at nationals than anyone, but had poor PCS. Guess she wasn't one of the judges favourites. Realistically, was there any chance of Osmond beating Lacoste or Phaneuf in the long Program? Judges had no choice in the short program. Skate Canada put out a brief video of "SKaters to watch at Nationals". Guess who they were. Exactly the same as the top 5 finish. It is very difficult for some skaters to go to a competition knowing that no matter how they perform, judges have the ability to "prop" up a more "established" person. Where is the fairness in that.

  3. #48
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    Hohoho,
    You're right. There is no fairness at all in that.

  4. #49
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    BTW, the ISU has updated the World Rankings, removing 2009-2010 data and reducing 2010-2011 data to 70% of its original value.

    LADIES
    1 KOSTNER Carolina
    2 SUZUKI Akiko
    3 LEONOVA Alena
    4 CZISNY Alissa
    5 KORPI Kiira
    6 MURAKAMI Kanako
    7 HELGESSON Viktoria
    8 ASADA Mao
    9 SOTNIKOVA Adelina
    10 GEDEVANISHVILI Elene
    11 MAKAROVA Ksenia
    12 WAGNER Ashley
    13 NAGASU Mirai
    14 TUKTAMISHEVA Elizaveta
    15 MEITE Mae Berenice
    16 MARCHEI Valentina
    17 HELGESSON Joshi
    18 IMAI Haruka
    19 ZAWADZKI Agnes
    20 LI Zijun
    21 LACOSTE Amelie
    22 ANDO Miki
    23 SHELEPEN Polina
    24 HECKEN Sarah
    25 PHANEUF Cynthia
    26 ZHANG Caroline
    27 LAFUENTE Sonia
    28 LIINAMAE Gerli
    28 NISHINO Yuki
    30 KOROBEYNIKOVA Polina

    67 SAMSON Myriane
    74 NAJARRO Alexandra
    82 OSMOND Kaetlyn
    96 CHARBONNEAU Kate
    151 PURICH Natasha
    Last edited by chuckm; 04-30-2012 at 04:37 PM.

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckm View Post
    BTW, the ISU has updated the World Rankings, removing 2009-2010 data and reducing 2010-2011 data to 70% of its original value.

    LADIES
    1 KOSTNER Carolina
    2 SUZUKI Akiko
    3 LEONOVA Alena
    4 CZISNY Alissa
    5 KORPI Kiira
    6 MURAKAMI Kanako
    7 HELGESSON Viktoria
    8 ASADA Mao
    9 SOTNIKOVA Adelina
    10 GEDEVANISHVILI Elene
    11 MAKAROVA Ksenia
    12 WAGNER Ashley
    13 NAGASU Mirai
    14 TUKTAMISHEVA Elizaveta
    15 MEITE Mae Berenice
    16 MARCHEI Valentina
    17 HELGESSON Joshi
    18 IMAI Haruka
    19 ZAWADZKI Agnes
    20 LI Zijun
    21 LACOSTE Amelie
    22 ANDO Miki
    23 SHELEPEN Polina
    24 HECKEN Sarah
    25 PHANEUF Cynthia
    26 ZHANG Caroline
    27 LAFUENTE Sonia
    28 LIINAMAE Gerli
    28 NISHINO Yuki
    30 KOROBEYNIKOVA Polina

    67 SAMSON Myriane
    74 NAJARRO Alexandra
    82 OSMOND Kaetlyn
    96 CHARBONNEAU Kate
    151 PURICH Natasha
    Considering this, Which of theses canadian ladies could have minimum one grand prix assignment ?

  6. #51
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    The criteria for GP invitations:

    A. TOP 12 at Worlds 2012
    Worlds 1-6: 2 or 3 guaranteed invitations
    Men: Chan
    Ladies: none
    Pairs: Duhamel/Radford
    Dance: V/M, W/P

    Worlds 6-12: 2 guaranteed invitations
    Men: Reynolds (12th)
    Ladies: none
    Pairs: Dube/Wolfe (12th)
    Dance: none

    B. Top 24 on World Ranking list (other than Worlds top 12)
    Guaranteed at least one GP invitation:
    Men: none. Rogozine #33, Firus #53
    Ladies: Amelie Lacoste #21
    Pairs: Lawrence/Sweigers #13, Moore-Towers/Moscovitz #14
    Dance: Ralph/Hill #21, Orford/Williams #22

    C. Top 24 on Seasons Best list (other than Worlds top 12 and WR top 24):
    Guaranteed at least one GP invitation
    Men: None. Rogozine is #29, Firus #41
    Ladies: None. Phaneuf is #39, Osmond #41
    Pairs: None. Bobak/Beharry were #23 but they split
    Dance: None

    D. Medaled at JGPF or JW:
    Guaranteed at least one GP invitation:
    Men: none
    Ladies: none
    Pairs: Bobak/Beharry 2nd at JGPF, but they split
    Dance: none

    Canada should have good representation in Dance and Pairs.
    In Men, only Chan and Reynolds are guaranteed two GPs each (Chan could do 3).
    In ladies, Lacoste is guaranteed at least one.

  7. #52
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    Oh my god's, I wonder how Skate Canada will choose between Alexandra Najarro, Cynthia Phaneuf, Adrianna De Sanctis, Amélie Lacoste and Kaetlyn Osmond. For the 3 spot at Skate Canada international Grand Prix :S

    I don't think that Lacoste deserve a second spot of Grand Prix even if she has the best world ranking for Canada.
    For Skate Canada, I would pick Phaneuf, Najarro and Osmond. Alexandra and Kaetlyn merits to gain international experience and Cynthia need to rebuilt herself internationaly.

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by coolboogie22 View Post
    Oh my god's, I wonder how Skate Canada will choose between Alexandra Najarro, Cynthia Phaneuf, Adrianna De Sanctis, Amélie Lacoste and Kaetlyn Osmond. For the 3 spot at Skate Canada international Grand Prix :S

    I don't think that Lacoste deserve a second spot of Grand Prix even if she has the best world ranking for Canada.
    For Skate Canada, I would pick Phaneuf, Najarro and Osmond. Alexandra and Kaetlyn merits to gain international experience and Cynthia need to rebuilt herself internationaly.
    Charbonneau must be considered too among these ladies. Also we have to see how Samson recovers from injury.

    Personally , I am wary of picking Najarro. Yes she has skated well at Canadians. But she already has 4 seasons worth of the JGP ( plus a JW where she failed to qualify for the FS ) . She has never done that well at any of her assignments. In fact her best season was her first one when she just came out of novice and wasn't trying anything harder than triple toe and salchow.

    Charbonneau, while inconsistent at least tends to skate better internationally than Najarro.

    Often SC uses Nebelhorn as a skate off for a Skate Canada slot. Even if SC decides to send other ladies to other events (rare ) the Nebelhorn bound ladies will be higher on the totem pole than the ladies sent to other senior B's.

    I just hope someone surprises over the summer.

  9. #54
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    Chartrand just skated at Scarboro Skate and did a long with two 3L's (90.05) and it's early in the season. That gives me an inkling of hope.

  10. #55
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    Wow, so Amelie will get an invite to one GP and the only other slot is SCI where they can send three. And again only one spot at Worlds to determine Olympic spots. In Junior, we have 6 slots plus 2 at Junior Worlds. How many do we send to 4CC? Well what to do. Do you keep Osmond Junior to try and improve on the 6 slots and continue her development, or one slot at SCI? Personally, with all things staying the same, I would send Amelie to her invite GP, and then send Phaneuf, Desanctis, and Charbonneau (or Samson). In Junior, Osmond, Daleman, Chartrand, Sequin, Jurome. But I wouldn't consider any one of these without a "meaningful" summer competition. Skate Canada has to really look at the prospect that Lacoste, Phaneuf, Desanctis, Samson, and others are essentially done after this Olympic cycle, which unless someone really steps up this year, is a complete bust.

    As for Chartrand, good news with the 3L's. Basically same score as Nationals (89.32). She has shown the technical, just needs the components.

  11. #56
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    I think Canada will have to use the B events. Get Joannie Rochette back into shape; she surely is still top ten material. If she hasn't lost her speed and power and can get most of her jumps back she will be better than any other Canadian lady. Use the B events for up an coming skaters but Canada needs to regain 2 spots and unless a miracle happens Lacoste, Phaneuf, Chartrand and Osmond aren't ready or there yet. They then need Rochette to earn two spots at next year world's for 2014. Hope Joannie and whoever go to the Olympics and then allow an up and coming skater to go to world's 2014 along with the top Olympic skater.

  12. #57
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    Rochette has yet to commit to returning to competition for the 2012-2013 season. If that is her intention, she would need to start rigorous training very soon, in order to avoid injury from attempting too much in too short a time. If she continues to do show skating this summer, then she isn't planning on returning soon enough to try to get another Olympic slot.

    But then again, if she is intending to return for the Olympic season, there is no doubt that she would qualify over the other ladies for that one spot. So I'm not sure there is that much incentive for her to return for this season.

  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by slipslidin View Post
    I'm dismayed to hear of the positive feedback on the format of this year's Nationals. Up to this point, I hadn't heard of any, and was hoping it would be viewed as a failed experiment.You do point out one of my objections; the appearance of pre selection. How can you hype the skaters without pre-selection? Was there ever a realistic chance that Cynthia or Amalie would not be in the last group?
    I did not hear a single positive thing about the schedule last year. It was atrocious. It was not good for the athletes or the development of the sport. I REALLY hope it is NEVER tried again. There is no excuse for it. There are only 3 flights for each discipline at Nationals. They should run these events as one, maintaining the integrity of the sport and the results.

    As for how to fix the Ladies: it needs to start early when the girls are young, provide lots of development opportunities, steal some elite singles experts with lots of success over many years, build mental toughness and strength through the years, and fix the horrible lack of funding. Paradoxically, there are more single ladies in the sport than any of the other disciplines, and yet it is the discipline that has the lowest results. At Sectionals, there are maybe 50 ladies at Pre-Novice competing for 4 spots at Challenge. By Senior, you might be lucky to have 10 ladies at Sectionals. We need to identify those with talent, desire and drive, and then support them and their families with development opportunites, meaningful training, and funding.

  14. #59
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    "We need to identify those with talent, desire and drive, and then support them and their families with development opportunites, meaningful training, and funding. "

    That seems to be what the Russians are doing. During the CBC braodcast of Junior World's there was a segment on "Canada's Sweetheart". Tracey Wilson came out and said the the Canadian way of doing things will not allow this. Canadian coaches and Skate Canada are not prepared to go that direction and say that certain skaters are the ones they are going to invest in. Perhaps if coaches were paid a salary from Skate Canada instead of billing the skaters, there might be a difference of opinion. Russia has brought all the top young ladies to the same training area to be pushed by each other to advance their program. Do we realistically think that Skate Canada will do that? Who will be the coaches?

  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by hohoho View Post
    Perhaps if coaches were paid a salary from Skate Canada instead of billing the skaters, there might be a difference of opinion. Russia has brought all the top young ladies to the same training area to be pushed by each other to advance their program. Do we realistically think that Skate Canada will do that? Who will be the coaches?
    No, Skate Canada cannot and will not do that. The parents pay the costs, and decide where their kids will skate.

    Additional development camp opportunities, international assignments, final flights at local comps, etc., could be realistic and helpful.
    Last edited by callalily; 05-01-2012 at 10:22 PM.

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