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Thread: How Would You Pick Your Olympic Team Event Lineup?

  1. #16
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    The "Olympic spirit" is to see which country can wave its flag more vigorously and patriotically than all the others. This is in contrast to the world championship, which is where athletes complete to see who is the best. Cynthia Phaneuf won't win a team medal, Canada will.

    I don't fault Cinquanta for grasping at this straw. Maybe the team ice skating thing will attract television viewers like the team gymnastics event does every four years.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by redwing View Post
    So you see nothing wrong with say for example Cynthia Phanuef being awarded OGM over Carolina Kostner or Mao Asada if Carolina and Mao don't medal in Ladies event but Canada wins gold in the team event ? And Cynthia retires as OGM winner and Carolina and Mao retires without ?

    I agree with you about Cinquanta, he needs to go !

    What about Reed/Reed if they are awarded OGM for team event and Davis/White don't get OGM in dance and both teams retire ? Sorry but this event has no place in olympics when you consider other dance teams that are stronger than R/R and won't get an additional chance for OGM.

    I have the utmost respect for all skaters names I use in example for all their hard training and love for this beautiful sport. I only use their names to show how ridiculous this team event is not to speak poorly of them.
    Why do you need to pair up two separate results to make an unacceptable scenario? Kostner and Asada are responsible for their own results, with nothing to do with Phaneuf. Ditto for every other competitor. Team event is a separate event from Men, Ladies, Pairs, and Ice Dance.

    Many OGM have been awarded to "lesser" athletes in relay and other team events without such events being disrespected or blamed for individuals' results. People understand the difference between team and individual events.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    The "Olympic spirit" is to see which country can wave its flag more vigorously and patriotically than all the others. This is in contrast to the world championship, which is where athletes complete to see who is the best. Cynthia Phaneuf won't win a team medal, Canada will.

    I don't fault Cinquanta for grasping at this straw. Maybe the team ice skating thing will attract television viewers like the team gymnastics event does every four years.
    I have a different view than most then I guess. To me The Olympic spirit is best expressed in the Olympic Creed.

    "The most important thing in the Olympic Games is not to win but to take part, just as the most important thing in life is not the triumph but the struggle. The essential thing is not to have conquered but to have fought well."

    "The Olympic Games give us the chance to celebrate our shared humanity, and the object of the competitors should be to express this humanity by performing fairly and honestly to the best of their natural ability. The Olympic spirit can be seen in all those who compete in the Games, not just in those who win the medals. This spirit can be seen in athletes from poorer parts of the world, who have little chance to develop their skills or gain experience, but who do the best they can with limited resources, and who represent their country with pride and dignity. In the spirit of the Olympics, the most important thing is to have taken part fairly, and to have done one's best. This is what the Olympic Games are really about, and some might say it's what life is really about as well."

    Read the bold and apply them to countries with weak federations. Giving some nations more chances at an olympic medal over others is against my personal beliefs no matter if my country may benefit.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by redwing View Post
    So you see nothing wrong with say for example Cynthia Phanuef being awarded OGM over Carolina Kostner or Mao Asada if Carolina and Mao don't medal in Ladies event but Canada wins gold in the team event ? And Cynthia retires as OGM winner and Carolina and Mao retires without ?
    Well.... not really. No more than I think there's anything inherently wrong about the fact that Stoijko has more Olympic medals than Browning. Ideally, if Canada/Japan win gold in the team event, Cynthia/the Reeds contribute to that. You assert that you view pairs/dance as one unit, but there's rarely a team that's truly equal overall. Averbukh was stronger than Lobacheva. Fusar-Poli was better than Margaglio. Volosozhar was stronger than Morosov.

    The thing is, I'm afraid, actually, that the judges might perceive it the way you do - that certain skaters "deserve" the medal more than others. That thought process contributes more to corruption than a lesser light winning a medal elsewhere.
    Last edited by ImaginaryPogue; 05-17-2012 at 10:26 PM.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkateFiguring View Post
    Why do you need to pair up two separate results to make an unacceptable scenario? Kostner and Asada are responsible for their own results, with nothing to do with Phaneuf. Ditto for every other competitor. Team event is a separate event from Men, Ladies, Pairs, and Ice Dance.

    Many OGM have been awarded to "lesser" athletes in relay and other team events without such events being disrespected or blamed for individuals' results. People understand the difference between team and individual events.
    My point is olympic figure skating has always been individual event no some hokey team event. You even make my point for me by saying all skaters are responsible for their own results.

    Heck give them all medals and call them all olympic champions if you want to make a "Separate but Equal" event but limit who can and cannot participate. Just show up and maybe get an olympic medal, nevermind if you are horrible individually and alot of better athletes won't get the same chance as you.

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    redwing, I'm having a tough time understanding your objections, to be honest.

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    Last edited by redwing; 05-17-2012 at 10:34 PM.

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    I think redwing has a sense of justice that focuses on the undeserving, whether for Olympic medals or a treasured citizenship.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImaginaryPogue View Post
    Well.... not really. No more than I think there's anything inherently wrong about the fact that Stoijko has more Olympic medals than Browning. Ideally, if Canada/Japan win gold in the team event, Cynthia/the Reeds contribute to that. You assert that you view pairs/dance as one unit, but there's rarely a team that's truly equal overall. Averbukh was stronger than Lobacheva. Fusar-Poli was better than Margaglio. Volosozhar was stronger than Morosov.

    The thing is, I'm afraid, actually, that the judges might perceive it the way you do - that certain skaters "deserve" the medal more than others. That thought process contributes more to corruption than a lesser light winning a medal elsewhere.
    Maybe I'm mistaken you for another poster but aren't one of the fans who feel the WTT is a cheese event ? If so then why should this event be treated any different, because its medals instead of money ? Sorry if not but my feeling is too many fans change views only when it benefits their country or their favorite skaters.

    No I don't feel any skater deserves it more than the other, that is why I disapprove of this event in the olympics. It has the potential to reward skaters who are mediocre on their own merit and ability, who could never attain olympic gold based solely on their own abilities. It also punishes skaters who only have control of their individual merit and no fault of theirs if their country or federation is weak.

    Giving some skaters multiple chances at a medal while denying others who in alot of cases are better is wrong. That's what makes this event a mockery to me.

  10. #25
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    ^^^ How would you feel if the Team medals are awarded to the federations instead of the skaters?

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    Quote Originally Posted by SkateFiguring View Post
    ^^^ How would you feel if the Team medals are awarded to the federations instead of the skaters?
    I would feel the same regardless who the medals are awarded to. This event doesn't belong in the olympics. You can't have olympic figure skating with one set of rules to all the entrants then turn around and make another set of rules for only the best nations or strongest federations in a separate event and say it's in the olympic spirit.

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    You do realize the number of participants in the other skating disciplines is limited as well? That countries are limited to the number of entrants they can submit based on their strength in that discipline (so no three ladies for Canada cause we're weak there; no three dance teams for Japan, etc)? That all events have limits on the number of athletes that can enter? That limiting the number of teams that can enter any given event is in no way contrary to the Olympic spirit but a pretty fundamental tenet of any sporting competition?

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImaginaryPogue View Post
    You do realize the number of participants in the other skating disciplines is limited as well? That countries are limited to the number of entrants they can submit based on their strength in that discipline (so no three ladies for Canada cause we're weak there; no three dance teams for Japan, etc)? That all events have limits on the number of athletes that can enter? That limiting the number of teams that can enter any given event is in no way contrary to the Olympic spirit but a pretty fundamental tenet of any sporting competition?
    Of course I realize there must be some limits as you mention, otherwise anyone can strap on a pair of skates and state they wish to represent whatever nations and the event would drag on for months. But now you will be placing more limitations on weaker countries than before, and doing it as part of the olympics where the winners are held up to form the ideals of integrity and fair competition is completely worng here.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    The "Olympic spirit" is to see which country can wave its flag more vigorously and patriotically than all the others. This is in contrast to the world championship, which is where athletes complete to see who is the best. Cynthia Phaneuf won't win a team medal, Canada will.

    I don't fault Cinquanta for grasping at this straw. Maybe the team ice skating thing will attract television viewers like the team gymnastics event does every four years.
    The AP published interesting comments this week from Japan's top male gymnast. He's expected to win the all-around gold as an individual, but the Olympic team event seems as important -- if not more important -- to him.

    Excerpt (with emphases added):

    TOKYO — When Kohei Uchimura imagines himself collecting a gold medal at the London Olympics, he thinks about collecting one for the team.

    An overwhelming favorite to win the all-around gold, the most prestigious event in gymnastics, Uchimura is heading to the Olympics aiming to put Japan first.

    Since winning the silver medal at the Beijing Olympics, the stylish Uchimura has been unbeatable. He won his third straight title at the world championships last fall in Tokyo, joining Svetlana Khorkina as the only gymnasts to win three. With Beijing gold medalist Yang Wei of China retired, it will likely take a colossal blunder for Uchimura to miss out on adding the Olympic title to his glittering resume.

    But in the lead-up to the games, the soft-spoken 23-year-old Uchimura prefers to focus on doing what he can to help Japan end a drought in the team competition.

    “I’m fed up with being second in the team event and that’s what we have to overcome,” Uchimura said. “The team is a special event and winning it is in many ways more rewarding that the individual event.”

  15. #30
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Thanks for the post, golden411. I agree, there is certainly a different vibe at the Olympics. Patriotism comes to the fore for both the athletes and the viewers.

    I do agree with redwing to a certain extent, though. It seems funny to try to make a "team" event out of a discipline where each person just goes out and skates as an individual, then they add up the points. It is hard to see where the "team" part comes in. Even in gymnastics, at least there is a tiny bit if strategy as far as the possibility of sending up specialists on the different apperatuses, mixed in with all-around performers.

    Still, I think its cool. The bottom line is the bottom line. If fans like it, who am I to throw water on their parade?

    As for the World team Trophy, cheesefests rule! Michelle Kwan used to have a standing contract with USFS and ABC television that required her to show up for the five major events of the skating season: Skate America, U.S. Nationals, and the October, December, and April cheesefests. Worlds? Who cares about that?

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