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Thread: How Levels & GOE are Determined in Ice Dance-Lifts

  1. #16
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    Dance Lift Grade of Execution guidelines, applied to Rotational Lifts:

    No team managed to simultaneously get a level four rotational lift at Worlds, combined with poor execution, so I am listing the negative GOE criteria for completeness. You need to know these things so that you know how a bad lift contrasts with a good lift:


    -3 (Very Poor)
    Entry or exit: shaky or dropped
    Ascent or descent: very brief
    Stability: lose balance
    If any Change of pose: awkward
    If any rotation, Rotation technique: awkward or very slow
    If any Change of curve: both curves very flat and too short

    -2 (Poor)
    Entry or exit: fumbling
    Ascent or descent: struggling
    Stability: unstable
    If any change of pose: discontinuous
    If any rotation, rotation technique: unstable, scraped turns
    If any change of curve, both curves flat and not equal

    -1 (Mediocre)
    Entry or exit: hesitant or abrupt
    Ascent or descent: much effort
    Stability: variable
    If any change of pose: labored
    If any rotation, rotational technique: discontinous, weak turns
    If any change of curve: one curve flat or one is too short
    Zero (or acceptable) was the lowest GOE generally given out for rotational lifts at Worlds
    0 (Acceptable)
    Entry or exit: sure and solid
    Ascent or descent: some effort
    Stability: stable
    If any change of pose: controlled
    If any rotation, rotational technique: continuous
    If any change of curve: similar shallow curves
    Hurtado & Diaz (four 1's, five 0's)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_YTsv...ailpage#t=169s

    Notice Diaz's difficulty with the turns. This lift requires effort.

    Then:

    +1 (Good)
    Entry or exit: smooth
    Ascent or descent: little effort
    Stability: sure
    If any change of pose: smooth
    If any rotation, rotational technique: smooth
    If any change of curve: curves equal and fairly deep
    Bobrova & Soloviev 4.5 (one 2, eight 1's)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65wBM...ailpage#t=268s

    Notice particularly how heavy the descent is.

    Moving on to very good lifts:


    +2 (Very Good)
    Entry or exit: flowing
    Ascent or descent: with ease
    Stability: confident
    if any change of pose: flowing
    If any rotation, rotational technique: flowing and fast
    If any change of curve, curves equal and deep
    Notice how nice Elena's position is:

    Ilinykh & Katsalapov 5.0 (one 3, one 1, seven 2's)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d9DeK...ailpage#t=174s

    Notice how seamlessly Weaver and Poje move right on into the rest of the dance after the lift.

    Weaver & Poje 5.14 six 2's, three 3's
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UbiC0...ailpage#t=250s

    And finally, the very best:

    +3 (Outstanding/Excellent)
    Entry or exit: seamless
    Ascent or descent: floating, effortless
    Stability: relaxed and bold
    if any change of pose: effortless
    If any rotation, rotational technique: flowing and very fast
    If any change of curve, curves equal and very deep


    Virtue & Moir 5.36 (three 2's, six 3's)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RwbgR...ailpage#t=220s

    In Virtue & Moir's lift, the best thing is how effortless the change of pose is.


    Davis & White 5.50 (one 2, eight 3's)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQTzb...ailpage#t=142s

    Davis and White's lift was particularly good because it came out of nowhere as a complete surprise, went up extremely fast, and appeared completely effortless throughout.

    And that is the last of rotational lifts. We're moving on to Curved Lifts, Straight Line Lifts, and Stationary Lifts next. If you have any questions about Rotational Lifts, now would be the time to ask them.

    And before I do move on, I did a quick review of what we looked at, and I see that I never showed anyone doing the option of a one armed lift . where the
    lifting partner's arm is fully extended in front with a significant distance between the partners
    .

    Capellini & Lanotte did that type of rotational lift in their FD this year. Here it is at Worlds:
    Girl on a stick move worlds
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTwCZ...ailpage#t=178s
    Last edited by dorispulaski; 05-06-2012 at 05:04 AM.

  2. #17
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    I do have a question about rotational lifts. The first lift on the V&M example has been a favorite of mine all year, but my question is about the second lift that ends the program. It begins when Scott swings
    Tessa around his shoulders to a position where she places her skate blade in the crook of his upper thigh for a pose before they go on to other positions to finish the lift. All season I've noticed that placing the
    skate blade in the crook of his upper thigh has been a problem with Tessa having to variously grab his shoulder or neck to help reposition herself. The rest of the lift often continued with no problem. My question is does the difficulty that Tessa had in the pose on his thigh affect levels, GOE, both or neither mark?

  3. #18
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    Here's all the versions of the lift in question

    Straight Line plus Rotational combination lift

    World Team Trophy
    10.71 points Three 2's, six 3's

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T7sqD...ailpage#t=250s


    Worlds
    10.71 points (three 2's, six 3's)

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...lpTfIMM#t=247s

    4CC's

    11.00 points (all 3's)

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OLIY3...ailpage#t=245s

    Canadian Championships

    11.00 points (all 3's)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eW6Mo...ailpage#t=267s

    GPF

    One 2, 8 3's (this was the incorrectly graded lift; correctly graded, it would have scored 11.00
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJXhE...ailpage#t=244s


    TEB
    Two 2's, seven 3's (18+2)/7 (Should have been 10.86 points)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QXuUl...ailpage#t=249s

    SloMo
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QXuUl...ailpage#t=367s

    Skate Canada
    Three 2's, six 3's (15+4)/7 (Should have been 10.71 points)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q0exi...ailpage#t=251s


    mare, the lift you are asking about is a combination lift; in this case, a straight line lift, followed by a rotational lift. The part of the lift you are asking about is the Straight Line part, which we haven't discussed yet. However, the level is not affected by whether she has trouble getting positioned. It is affected by whether she spends 3 seconds in the difficult back bend position, posed on Scott's leg or whether it is less. It is always over 3 seconds.

    What could be affected is the GOE. Awkwardness in the 'entry' or 'exit'/'dismount' from the lift is not a good thing.

    However, as you will notice, most judges all year have thought this lift was perfect, giving it almost all GOE's of 3.

    Myself, I would not have given the two versions from SC or TEB a GOE of 3 because there is a slight awkwardness in the dismount at SC, and at TEB, the entry is fumbly (as you noticed, mare), and the exit is rather heavy, too. However, Tessa & Scott are the acknowledged king & queen of the combination lift. RHIP. Also, it can always be argued that the excellence of the rest of the lift is more than enough to compensate for the fact that at SC,I fearedTessa was about to kick Scott in the nose during the dismount.

    And there is one thing to add. Judges can make adjustments to the GOE for lifts on the following scale, and I am sure that these were used to justify the 3's for Virtue and Moir when their lift was a bit heavy or awkward:

    Increase one grade (each, presumably)

    Body lines and pose of both partners beautiful and esthetically pleasing
    Speed maintained or accelerated during the dance lift
    Dance Lift with special attribute for lifting partner
    Entry is unexpected and/or creativ
    Dance lift reflects the character of the chosen dance and fits to the phrasing of the music.

    Decrease by one grade (each presumably):

    Pose awkward or not aesthetically pleasing
    More than 1/2 turn within Straight Line or Curve lift or between curves for serpentine lift
    Dance Lift does not fit the character of the chosen dance
    Dance Lift does not fit the prashing of the music.
    What would you guys have given these various versions for GOE?
    Last edited by dorispulaski; 05-06-2012 at 03:48 PM.

  4. #19
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    Doris, thank you for responding to my question. I don't know enough to give you an exact mark but I do think that there is no real variance in the marks between each of these performances even where
    the mistake is more obvious as in sitting on Scott's shoulder. I will have to put in more work to increase my understanding; however, I have to say that often increasing my understanding simply makes me
    disagree even more with the judges opinions.

    Again, thank you Doris for all of your hard work.

  5. #20
    skating philosopher Mrs. P's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mare View Post
    Doris, thank you for responding to my question. I don't know enough to give you an exact mark but I do think that there is no real variance in the marks between each of these performances even where
    the mistake is more obvious as in sitting on Scott's shoulder. I will have to put in more work to increase my understanding; however, I have to say that often increasing my understanding simply makes me
    disagree even more with the judges opinions.


    Again, thank you Doris for all of your hard work.
    I don't think that's a bad thing, mare. I don't think Doris is doing this so we can always agree with the judges. I think rather with the information Doris gives us we can try to explain WHY we disagree with the marks beyond "X team was robbed!" I think it's always good to figure out what exactly the judges are seeing, but that doesn't mean they are always right.

  6. #21
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    Curved, Straight Line and Stationary Lifts

    Let's find out what the rules are for these short lifts, and then we can looks at some good ones, and some downgraded ones.

    All short lifts have to be complete in 6 seconds.


    The description of Levels is the same for Curved Lifts, Straight Line Lifts and Stationary Lifts. A Stationary Lift can be done as a spin in place:

    Level One

    Lifted Partner is held off the ice for at least 3 seconds

    Level Two
    has two options

    The lifted partner sustains a difficult pose for at least 3 seconds, or has a change of pose
    OR
    The lifting partner sustains a difficult pose for at least 3 seconds

    Level Three; you must have both the Level 2 options

    The lifted partner sustains a difficult pose for at least 3 seconds, or has a change of pose
    AND
    The lifting partner sustains a difficult pose for at least 3 seconds

    Level Four
    The lifted partner sustains a difficult pose for at least 3 seconds, or has a change of pose
    AND
    The lifting partner sustains a difficult pose for at least 3 seconds
    AND
    A creative and difficult entry

    Additional causes for downgrades:
    If there is a hand or foot touching down, the level shall be reduced by one level
    The heart of the curved, straight line, and stationary lifts, then, are the definitions of what is difficult, or creative:

    So I will repeat these definitions, which are the same as for the rotational lift:

    First the document describes the options for the lifted partner (usually the lady). She may be displaying a difficult position, or a change of position:


    5.4.2. ADDITIONAL DEFINITIONS, SPECIFICATIONS TO DEFINITIONS AND NOTES

    Difficult Pose for lifted partner (examples):

    a) Full split: when the legs of the lifted partner are extended in one line with the angle between thighs about 180 degrees;
    b) full “Biellmann”: body upright with the heel of the boot pulled by the hand behind and above the level of the head;
    c) full doughnut/ring: upper body arched back, with one or both feet almost touching the head in a full circle (maximum of half a blade length between head and blade);
    d) upside down combined with difficult hold;
    e) from a vertical position lady is cantilevered out: lady’s torso is extended away from the man and the only one additional point of support are the hands;
    f) balancing in a horizontal position with only one additional point of support;
    g) leaning out (forwards or backwards) with the only one additional point of support being the legs;
    h) full layback with arched pose with no support from the lifting partner above the thigh;
    i) extended out with the majority of body weight in a horizontal line with the only one additional point of support being shoulders and/ or upper back.
    Since we now have the four lift option, there can be two of one type of short lift in a program. There also can be a short curved lift, say, and additionally, a curved l lift can be part of a combination lift. To ensure there isn't a lot of repetition of poses, the following rule is in place:


    Notes:
    a chosen example of Difficult Pose shall be considered for Level only the first time it occurs, whether it be in a Short Lift or in a part of Long Lift;

    Examples b) (full “Biellmann) and c) (full doughnut/ring) shall be considered as the same example of Difficult Pose.

    Change of Pose for lifted partner:
    A Change of Pose shall be considered for Level if it fulfills the following characteristics:
    lifting partner changes hold and lifted partner changes hold and body pose so that it is a significant change (i.e. a photographer would produce two different photos). A mere change of position of arm(s) and/or legs, changing to the reverse side (mirror) or changing the height of the body is not enough to constitute a Change of Pose;

    the change of body pose and changes of hold occur simultaneously;
    each pose, preceding and following the change is clearly defined and the first pose is attained and clearly shown prior to the change to the second pose;

    ....
    Note: Changes of Pose shall be considered for Level only the first two times they occur, whether they are in Short Lifts or in parts of Long Lift.
    For the lifting partner, all of these options are possible for a straight line or curved lift:

    Difficult Position for lifting partner (examples):
    a) one foot;
    b) Shoot the Duck (thigh at least parallel to the ice) with any position of free leg;
    c) Spread Eagle – inside: same edges (one forward one backward) on the same curve;
    d) Spread Eagle – outside: same edges (one forward one backward) on the same curve;
    e) Spread Eagle – on a straight line (for Straight Line Lift only): same edges (one forward, one backward) on the same line;
    f) Ina Bauer: same or different edge (one forward one backward) on parallel tracing;
    g) Crouch with two knees bent (thighs at least parallel to the ice) on two feet;
    h) Crouch with one knee bent (thigh at least parallel to the ice) on two feet with one leg extended to side;
    i) Lunge (thigh at least parallel to the ice) with any position of free leg;
    j) One Hand/Arm Lift: with no contact other than the lifting partner’s hand/arm and the lifted partner.

    Notes:
    Examples g) h) and i) (Crouch or Lunge) shall not be considered for Level in a Stationary Lift which is not rotating;

    A chosen example of Difficult Position shall be considered for Level only the first time it occurs, whether it be in a Short Lift or in a part of Long Lift (exception: Reverse Rotational Lift Levels 3 and 4 Option 2, where the One Hand/Arm Lift is considered for Level in both directions);

    if the three different examples of Spread Eagle (c), d) and e)) are performed, only the twoc first performed different examples shall be considered for Level;

    if an Ina Bauer (example f) skated on same edges) and an example of Spread Eagle (c), d) or e)) are performed on the same edges, only the first performed of the two Difficult Positions shall be considered for Level.
    And now we deal with the entry and exit of the lift:

    Creative/Difficulty Entry (Groups of examples):
    a) unexpected entry without any evident preparation;
    b) entry from a Difficult Position for the lifting partner: the Difficult Position must be reached before the lifted partner leaves the ice;
    c) entry from a difficult transition by the lifting partner: series of at least two difficult Turns (e.g. Bracket, Choctaw, Counter, Outside Mohawk, but not progressives) before the Dance Lift;
    d) significant transitional movement performed by the lifted partner to reach and establish the desired pose (Note: this is not the same as a Change of Pose, because the movement is transitional and not established).

    Notes:
    A chosen Group of examples of Creative/Difficult Entry a), c) or d) shall be considered for Level only in the Dance Lift where it is first performed;

    A chosen example of Creative/Difficult Entry from Group b) shall be considered for Level only in the Dance Lift where it is first performed;

    if the three different examples of Spread Eagle (c), d) and e) of paragraph Difficult Position for lifting partner) are performed as Creative/Difficult Entry, only the two first performed different examples shall be considered for Level;

    if an Ina Bauer (example f) of paragraph Difficult Position for lifting partner skated on same edges) and an example of Spread Eagle (c),d) or e) of paragraph Difficult Position for lifting partner) are performed as Creative/Difficult Entry on the same edges, only the first performed of the two Creative/Difficult Entry shall be considered for Level.
    So those are the rules.

    Let's see how they work out.

  7. #22
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    From reading the above list, you can see that the creative and difficult entry does nothing for you if either the lifter or the liftee either does not sustain a difficult position for 3 seconds. The change of pose option for the liftee is more forgiving, because there is no time limit on it, and there are no requirements, like touching the head with the skate blade and missing, that can result in a catastrophic downgrade.

    Consequently, the lion's share of curved lifts that we see are with the lifted partner changing poses.

    One way to see how this works is to consider this year's experience of Capellini and Lanotte:

    At Skate Canada and at TEB, they did a really cool lift that fit the street performer theme of La Strada. At Skate Canada, it got level 4, but at TEB, it was downgraded.

    Capellini & Lanotte FD TEB CuLi2
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Z4wg...ailpage#t=118s

    When they arrived at Worlds, they had substituted a lift that was less interesting, but was guaranteed to earn level 4:

    Capellinia & Lanotte FD Worlds CuLi4
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTwCZ...ailpage#t=127s

    Now let's look at how the first version was a risk:

    Anna has to get in that position, hold it for three seconds, and exit, all within 6 seconds, so there is a risk for losing the level, and there is a risk for an deduction for an over-long lift. Also, there is a risk that the position will not be called difficult at all, even though it clearly is difficult. Contrast that to a change of pose, which requires only that two poses are each held just long enough that a photographer would get a significantly different picture. Neither of the poses has to be difficult. Obviously, this is the winning strategy for the competitors, but kind of a loser for the fans.

    There are a number of ways that Anna's TEB position fits the difficult definition, if the distance between blades and head are under half a blade length. Let's look at the downgraded lift again:

    c) full doughnut/ring: upper body arched back, with one or both feet almost touching the head in a full circle (maximum of half a blade length between head and blade);
    Slow Mo http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Z4wg...ailpage#t=340s

    From the replay, I doubt very much whether her blades are within a half blade of her head for 3 seconds.

    Consequently, the lift was downgraded to level 2, which costs the team 1.50 in base value. However, that is not all. Doing something noticeably badly will cost you some GOE, in all likelihood.

    Better safe than artistic and sorry, sad to say.

  8. #23
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    Chock & Bates had a similar problem.

    Evan's back spiral is clearly on one foot (and indeed, considerably harder than being on one foot), so the problem is with Madison's "full donut"-her blade does touch her head though..however, she may not have held that position for the full three seconds needed. When she does hold it, at TEB, this is one of my favorite curved lifts of the season. The depth of the curve on Evan's back spiral is exceptional. Bravo!

    Chock & Bates Skate Canada FD CuLi2
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sEke1...tailpage#t=90s

    Once the length of time for Madison's donut is long enough, of course jumping onto his back is clearly a difficult entry, and they get their level 4.

    Chock & Bates TEB FD CuLi4
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v6T7V...tailpage#t=87s.

    This time art triumphs over safety!

    Here is another case study from the Junior ranks.


    Nosulia & Kholoniuk UKR received a CuLi3 at the JGPF. In trying to regroup after a totally failed twizzle sequence, they did this lift. Evidently, the panel felt they did not attempt a difficult entry, and so the lift can only get a level 3 at best...but that's what it earns. She is "g) leaning out (forwards or backwards) with the only one additional point of support being the legs," and he is in a crouch which definitely meets the requirement g) Crouch with two knees bent (thighs at least parallel to the ice) on two feet;"

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...PWfCHro#t=143s

    Let's look at the specifications for a "Creative or Difficult Entry" to see why this one was not difficult, and also to see how they could make it difficult:

    Creative/Difficulty Entry (Groups of examples):
    a) unexpected entry without any evident preparation;
    b) entry from a Difficult Position for the lifting partner: the Difficult Position must be reached before the lifted partner leaves the ice;
    c) entry from a difficult transition by the lifting partner: series of at least two difficult Turns (e.g. Bracket, Choctaw, Counter, Outside Mohawk,
    but not progressives) before the Dance Lift;
    d) significant transitional movement performed by the lifted partner to reach and establish the desired pose (Note: this is not the same as a Change of Pose, because the movement is transitional and not established).

    Notes:
    A chosen Group of examples of Creative/Difficult Entry a), c) or d) shall be considered for Level only in the Dance Lift where it is first performed;

    A chosen example of Creative/Difficult Entry from Group b) shall be considered for Level only in the Dance Lift where it is first performed;

    if the three different examples of Spread Eagle (c), d) and e) of paragraph Difficult Position for lifting partner) are performed as Creative/Difficult Entry, only the two first performed different examples shall be considered for Level;

    if an Ina Bauer (example f) of paragraph Difficult Position for lifting partner skated on same edges) and an example of Spread Eagle (c),d) or e) of paragraph Difficult Position for lifting partner) are performed as Creative/Difficult Entry on the same edges, only the first performed of the two Creative/Difficult Entry shall be considered for Level.
    The choice they appear to be making here is "b) entry from a Difficult Position for the lifting partner: the Difficult Position must be reached before the lifted partner leaves the ice." So if Kholoniuk were in the crouch, with thighs at least parallel to the ice when Nosulia leaves the ice, it would be a difficult entry. At JGPF, he was not down far enough when she left the ice, so it wasn't a Difficult Entry, so they only got level 3.

    In the same lift, as done at Junior Worlds, because Nosulia is not leaning out the full three seconds, they only get level 2. The entry does not come into this call, but it looks better to me.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3DY9...ailpage#t=195s

    Things went downhill all year, because at JGP 2011 Austria, their first outing with this FD, they received a level 4 for the lift.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3J1qD...ailpage#t=139s
    Last edited by dorispulaski; 05-07-2012 at 05:44 AM.

  9. #24
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    The Russians. Almost all of them got downgraded on Curved Lifts this year:

    First off,
    Pushkash & Guerreiro received a Level 2 at Skate Canada:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8o7V0...tailpage#t=65s

    However, they received a Level 4 for this lift at Cup of Russia:

    Pushkash & Guerreiro Cup of Russia FD CuLi4
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...5Y54JHh8#t=77s

    There is too much going on in this lift. That is, if you look at it as a tech specialist might. First let's look at Jonathan. He apparently is supposed to do a significant one foot move, lift Katia and go back into the one foot position. Now to meet the specifications for difficulty, he has to hold the one foot position three seconds, which he succeeds at both times. However, the one foot attitude step before the lift looks perilously like a failed attempt at being on one foot for the lift. If I were a member of the panel, I would already have flagged this lift to be looked at a second time, even when done correctly.

    Now let's look at Katia-she could be going for a number of the "difficult positions" in the list, but because there are so many things going on, it's easy for the tech specialist to focus on the fact that there is a doughnut in there.

    c) full doughnut/ring: upper body arched back, with one or both feet almost touching the head in a full circle (maximum of half a blade length between head and blade);
    At Skate Canada, her doughnut was not held for 3 seconds...however, she was draped over his shoulder and arm, facing upwards without him using his hands to hold her for 3 seconds. I had to read through the list of difficult positions several times, but recalling that the lifts are just "examples" and not the only possible difficult positions, I'm not sure they shouldn't have gotten the level at Skate Canada, too. However, the presence of the doughnut called attention to itself.

    In fact, if they had hit a clear position during that complex flip up to the position that they did, they could have gone for a "change of pose" option for this lift, too, and how long she did or did not hold the doughnut would have been immaterial.

    Too much going on, in my opinion, made it harder for this couple to get full credit for their lift.

    Gorshkova & Butikov also got a Level 2 on their curved lift at TEB:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2_TH...ailpage#t=218s

    In this case, the problem is the lifting partner's position. Vitali appears to be going for this difficult position:

    h) Crouch with one knee bent (thigh at least parallel to the ice) on two feet with one leg extended to side;
    However, he doesn't get down far enough; his thigh is not parallel to the ice.

    Kristina's split is a bit sub par, too, but she appears to have gotten credit for it; if not it would have been Level One:

    a) Full split: when the legs of the lifted partner are extended in one line with the angle between thighs about 180 degrees;
    Last edited by dorispulaski; 05-08-2012 at 05:27 AM.

  10. #25
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    More Russian Curved Lifts

    And yes, Riazanova & Tkachenko of the original article, also got downgraded for a curved lift.

    It happened in their SD at Skate Canada. He's in a besti squat (spread eagle). She flips over his head and does a doughnut position. Her foot was just not close enough to her head to get credit for the difficult position. Her foot is not that close to her head at Worlds either, but they got credit for the level there.

    Riazanova & Tkachenko CuLi2 Skate Canada SD
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...CC87234#t=157s

    Riazanova & Tkachenko CuLi4 Worlds SD
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JpG1b...ailpage#t=141s

    And Bobrova & Soloviev also got downgraded for a curved lift at Worlds.

    Here's the lift done for a Level 4 at Europeans:
    She flips into position (difficult entry)
    She holds a position in an extreme back bend for three seconds
    h) full layback with arched pose with no support from the lifting partner above the thigh;
    while he is in a 2 foot crouch with his thighs more than parallel to the ice. Level 4

    Bobrova & Soloviev CuLi4
    Europeans FD
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...oIRi3RRQ#t=93s

    At Worlds, this got Level 2, and if you look closely, his supporting hand is on her rear end, which is of course, above the thigh, so she does not get credit for the difficult pose, and the lift is level 2.

    Bobrova & Soloviev CuLi2 World FD
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65wBM...ailpage#t=104s
    Last edited by dorispulaski; 05-26-2012 at 04:14 PM.

  11. #26
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    Virtue and Moir had significant issues with Curved Lifts this year, due to the changes made in the rules for curved lifts over the summer, particularly in the Change of Pose Definition. The lift they had used in the "Temptation" part of last year's FD did not qualify for Level 4 this year as a result. Here's last year's Curved Lift from Temptation in their FD
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2dtF...ailpage#t=134s

    They first showed this year's programs at Finlandia, and they used a lift that was approximately the same as the one in last year's FD in their SD for the new season. The problem appears to me to be that they did not get credit for the change of pose. This is V&M Finlandia SD CuLi2
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MXS1h...ailpage#t=125s

    The lift in the new FD at Finlandia suffered from the same difficulty, and also got Level 2 at Finlandia:

    V&M Finlandia FD CuLi2-Scott is on one foot for more 3 seconds, Tessa does a change of pose that apparently didn't get credit for a change of pose? CuLi2
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...zAkcw2M#t=100s


    Here is the current definition of Change of Pose:

    A Change of Pose shall be considered for Level if it fulfills the following characteristics:
    lifting partner changes hold and lifted partner changes hold and body pose so that it is a significant change (i.e. a photographer would produce two different photos). A mere change of position of arm(s) and/or legs, changing to the reverse side (mirror) or changing the height of the body is not enough to constitute a Change of Pose;

    the change of body pose and changes of hold occur simultaneously;
    each pose, preceding and following the change is clearly defined and the first pose is attained and clearly shown prior to the change to the second pose;
    Virtue and Moir's two Finlandia lifts change continually, so it appears to me that the technical panel did not feel the first pose was attained and clearly shown prior to the change to the second pose.

    (And may I say, paranthetically, that I liked the original lifts, and I don't particularly like this "Change of Pose" definition if it requires these "Snap Shot" moments.)

    By Skate Canada and TEB, Virtue and Moir had changed their lifts so that they garnered a level 4, with clear changes of pose, but I'm sure the lifts were not as smooth as they would have liked.

    Virtue and Moir TEB FD CuLi4 4.79 points
    Here is the revised version of the curved lift in the "Basal Metabolism" jazz section of their Funny Face FD. However, Scott found it difficult to be steady in this form of the lift on one foot. He was quite wobbly at TEB, here.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QXuUl...ailpage#t=107s

    At Four Continents, Virtue & Moir used this completely revised lift for 5.21 points, and a level 4:.

    Scott stays on two feet in a crouched spread eagle. Tessa goes to an inverted position for her change of pose, which is a more stable position than the one they were using before.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OLIY3...ailpage#t=102s

    At this point, I want to look at the variation in GOE of Curved Lifts this year in the next post, just as we did for Rotational Lifts.

    If you have any questions about curved lifts, I hope you will ask. And please feel free to disagree!

    Or to comment in any way.

    I hope some of you are still reading this
    Last edited by dorispulaski; 05-08-2012 at 12:50 PM.

  12. #27
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    Virtue & Moir SD Curved Lift

    Just to complete the story of Virtue & Moir's adventures with curved lifts this year in the SD, following Finlandia, they changed the lift in "Temptation" to a clearly change of pose lift, which they continued to use until the Grand Prix Final. When they revised their SD program, following the Grand Prix Final, they eliminated the Curved Lift in "Temptation" and replaced it with a Rotational Lift at the end of the program. They continued to use this revised program until the end of the season.

    This videos show how their SD lift changed this season:

    V&M Finlandia SD CuLi2 (Lift in "Temptation" from last year's FD)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MXS1h...ailpage#t=125s

    V&M SD Skate Canada CuLi4 (Lift changed to show clearly established Change of Pose.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...zFJB14s#t=132s

    V&M SD TEB CuLi4 (Change of Pose Lift)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-t2Jt...ailpage#t=137s

    V&M SD GPF CuLi4 (Change of Pose Lift)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...GJoE8Ak#t=290s

    V&M Canadians SD RoLi4 (The idea of having a Curved Lift in "Temptation" was scrapped and replaced by a Rotational Lift at the end of the program. They used the Rotational Lift for the rest of the season.)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2NC3g...ailpage#t=222s

    Virtue & Moir 4CC's SD RoLi4
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...yQgZ8ZY#t=184s

    V&M Worlds SD Rotational Lift RoLi4
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FPBOW...ailpage#t=191s

    V&M WTT SD RoLi4
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...mocFTdY#t=175s

  13. #28
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    Grades of Execution for Curved Lifts (and Stationary and Straight Line Lifts)

    And I want to show as many of the difficult positions by both the lifter and liftee as a I can too. When you view these lifts, please notice that a curve is skated by the man, and notice the depth of the curve. Without a curve, a lift is a Straight Line Lift instead:

    To remind you, here are the descriptions of the Grades of Execution, with only the bullets that apply to a Short Curved Lift:

    GOE

    -3 (Very Poor)
    Entry or exit: shaky or dropped
    Ascent or descent: very brief
    Stability: lose balance
    If any Change of pose: awkward


    -2 (Poor)
    Entry or exit: fumbling
    Ascent or descent: struggling
    Stability: unstable
    If any change of pose: discontinuous

    -1 (Mediocre)
    Entry or exit: hesitant or abrupt
    Ascent or descent: much effort
    Stability: variable
    If any change of pose: labored

    0 (Acceptable)
    Entry or exit: sure and solid
    Ascent or descent: some effort
    Stability: stable
    If any change of pose: controlled

    +1 (Good)
    Entry or exit: smooth
    Ascent or descent: little effort
    Stability: sure
    If any change of pose: smooth


    +2 (Very Good)
    Entry or exit: flowing
    Ascent or descent: with ease
    Stability: confident
    if any change of pose: flowing


    +3 (Outstanding/Excellent)
    Entry or exit: seamless
    Ascent or descent: floating, effortless
    Stability: relaxed and bold
    if any change of pose: effortless
    If any change of curve, curves equal and very deep
    And adjustments can be made to GOE for these situations:

    Increase one grade (each, presumably)
    Body lines and pose of both partners beautiful and esthetically pleasing
    Speed maintained or accelerated during the dance lift
    Dance Lift with special attribute for lifting partner
    Entry is unexpected and/or creative
    Dance lift reflects the character of the chosen dance and fits to the phrasing of the music.

    Decrease by one grade (each presumably):
    Pose awkward or not aesthetically pleasing
    More than 1/2 turn within Straight Line or Curve lift or between curves for serpentine lift
    Dance Lift does not fit the character of the chosen dance
    Dance Lift does not fit the prashing of the music.

    A List of Curve Lifts in Decreasing Order of Grades of execution. All were called Level 4

    P&B 5.43 at GPF, The Pharaoh and His Mummy FD. Fabian does the crouched spread eagle on inside edges (Option C), Nathalie is
    d) upside down combined with difficult hold;
    (Note the way the hold works. It's hard to describe. Fabian is actually not holding Nathalie at all at the top of the lift.)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...gjuptYiQ#t=84s

    D&W 5.21 at GPF, from their Die Fledermaus FD- Charlie is in the crouched spread eagle, on inside edges (Option c) for his difficult position.
    Meryl is in two clear poses, one horizontal across his knee, and one, , standing on his knee.
    e) from a vertical position lady is cantilevered out: lady’s torso is extended away from the man and the only one additional point of support are the hands;
    I find that the pause between the two positions is probably to highlight the Snapshot 1, Snapshot 2 requrement for change of position. And probably, she could get credit for both change of pose and difficult position.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...bIfB2kA#t=219s

    V&M 5.21 at 4CCs in their Funny Face FD. Scott is also using the inside edge spread eagle. Tessa does two changes of position-one draped about Scott's shoulders, and one upside down.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OLIY3...ailpage#t=102s

    W&P 5.14 at GPF in their Je Suis Malade FD. Again, Andrew is using the inside edge spread eagle. The surprise entry is the best thing about this lift. Kaitlyn does 2 changes of pose, one upright with a layback, one horizontal across his knee.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=moZKI...ailpage#t=145s

    C&L 4.79 (third element) Worlds in their La Strada FD. Another change of pose lift. Anna stands on Luca's leg in a attitude position, and then drops to a horizontal position. Luca is in the ever popular inside edge spread eagle.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTwCZ...ailpage#t=127s

    H&D 4.79 (first element)Worlds in their I Put A Spell On You FD (Change of pose with the inside edge spread eagle)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...fiMogeYY#t=81s


    Hurtado & Diaz ESP 4.64 earned in their Tristan & Isolde FD at Worlds. Adria is in the inside spread eagle. Sara is doing the doughnut position, but gets into it in an interesting way.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_YTsv...tailpage#t=56s


    Zhiganshina & Gaszi, GER, 4.57 in the modern Romeo & Juliet FD at Worlds (Note the really deep curve that Alexander gets into this lift in doing the Outside edge spread eagle (yes, a change, option D) Nelli is doing
    h) full layback with arched pose with no support from the lifting partner above the thigh;
    I definitely give them credit for doing something a bit different.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UeCSm...ailpage#t=263s

    At this point we are getting to lifts that had problems or just were very ordinary

    I&K 4.29 from their Ave Maria FD at Worlds. Nikita is on one foot, and a bit wobbly about it. Elena is doing a change of pose.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d9DeK...ailpage#t=240s


    Huang & Zheng 4.14 in their Tango FD at Worlds. This is a very ordinary Change of Pose lift, with Zheng in an inside spread eagle
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jwZxb...ailpage#t=142s


    Coomes & Buckland 3.93 Worlds in their Viva Elvis Medley FD. He's on one foot. She's upside down, which requires a difficult hold. However, Nick has to steady Penny before he can get into the arms outstretched "hold.". The landing is really heavy, too.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0eUZZ...ailpage#t=218s


    Reeds NHK 3.71 from their Lagaan Soundtrack FD. Chris is in the inside spread eagle. Cathy does a change a pose, but there seems to be a real problem with the first pose.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LLA9m...tailpage#t=86s

    And finally, the lift in a Senior FD from either GP or an ISU championship, that had the lowest Grade of Execution while still being a level 4
    Bruhns & Van Natten MEX, from their 4CCs Harlem Nocturne FD 3.64 Ryan is on one foot. Corinne is upside down. This is about the slowest I have seen a curved lift skated. It is a really short curve.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...ao2hiJ0#t=177s

    So that's all I know about this year's Curved Lifts.

    Next we'll discuss Straight Line Lifts, but there isn't a huge lot to say new. Everything we discussed about Difficult Positions, Entries, and Change of Pose is exactly the same as for Straight Lifts. The difference will be that there can't be any curve in the track that the lifting skater makes.
    Last edited by dorispulaski; 05-18-2012 at 04:01 AM.

  14. #29
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    As I promised, we're moving on to straight line lifts, but this time I want to start with lifts where the team did not get credit for a difficult or creative entry. I found three cases of straight line lifts with this problem:

    Bad Ones-Blown Entry

    First let's review the criteria for difficult and creative entries, since we haven't talked much about that yet:

    Creative/Difficulty Entry (Groups of examples):

    a) unexpected entry without any evident preparation;
    b) entry from a Difficult Position for the lifting partner: the Difficult Position must be reached before the lifted partner leaves the ice;
    c) entry from a difficult transition by the lifting partner: series of at least two difficult Turns (e.g. Bracket, Choctaw, Counter, Outside Mohawk,
    but not progressives) before the Dance Lift;
    d) significant transitional movement performed by the lifted partner to reach and establish the desired pose (Note: this is not the same as a Change of Pose, because the movement is transitional and not established).

    Notes:
    A chosen Group of examples of Creative/Difficult Entry a), c) or d) shall be considered for Level only in the Dance Lift where it is first performed;

    A chosen example of Creative/Difficult Entry from Group b) shall be considered for Level only in the Dance Lift where it is first performed;

    if the three different examples of Spread Eagle (c), d) and e) of paragraph Difficult Position for lifting partner) are performed as Creative/Difficult Entry, only the two first performed different examples shall be considered for Level;

    if an Ina Bauer (example f) of paragraph Difficult Position for lifting partner skated on same edges) and an example of Spread Eagle (c),d) or e) of paragraph Difficult Position for lifting partner) are performed as Creative/Difficult Entry on the same edges, only the first performed of the two Creative/Difficult Entry shall be considered for Level.
    Weaver & Poje GPF FD Straight Line Lift

    last element FD Level 3 Entry: She just steps onto his knee. He is in a one foot position. She is upright, supported by one of his hands that is no higher than the thigh. So the questions is, why did this tech panel think the entry to the lift was neither creative nor difficult? He does use two hands to help her to stand on his knee. At the GPF, Andrew is on two feet when Kaitlyn steps onto his knee.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...IEiGPdM#t=259s

    At Worlds, they got level 4. Let's look to see how the lift was different. Andrew was on one foot Before Kaitlyn stepped up:

    Consequently, we can see that they lost the level for the entry because:
    b) entry from a Difficult Position for the lifting partner: the Difficult Position must be reached before the lifted partner leaves the ice;
    At Worlds, they received a Level 4, because Andrew was on one foot when Kaitlyn stepped onto his leg.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MtxK_...ailpage#t=279s

    Another example of problems getting credit for a difficult or creative entry:
    Capellini & Lanotte, Skate Canada FD, SlLi3 7th element
    His difficult position is a Shoot The Duck
    b) Shoot the Duck (thigh at least parallel to the ice) with any position of free leg;
    Her difficult position is being stretched out straigh, parallel to the ice.
    f) balancing in a horizontal position with only one additional point of support;
    In this case, the point of support is his knee-his hands are not supporting her.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...RvMWVtc#t=220s

    As with Weaver and Poje, they don't get the Level 4 because Luca is not in the difficult position when Anna's feet leave the ice (His thigh must be parallel to the ice, BEFORE she is lifted; not the case here.

    At Worlds, they did receive Level 4. Luca is still not fully in position, but now the difficult entry focus is on Anna. Does she qualify for a difficult entry? She is entering the lift from a crouched position:
    d) significant transitional movement performed by the lifted partner to reach and establish the desired pose (Note: this is not the same as a Change of Pose, because the movement is transitional and not established).
    And, yes, she does.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2LBIh...ailpage#t=230s

    A junior couple, Anastasia Galyeta & Alexei Shumski, UKR, received a downgrade for failing to have a creative and difficult entry in their FD at the Junior Grand Prix Final. Alexei is not in the difficult one foot position when Anastasia leaves the ice. Her difficult position is the doughnut:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...9jOHLTts#t=46s

    They had previously gotten a level 4 for this lift at JGP Brasov. Note that Alexei is on one foot before Anastasia leaves the ice. Her doughnut is better here, too:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...ajmNQwUY#t=53s

    And so, they received Level 4.
    Last edited by dorispulaski; 05-09-2012 at 12:14 PM.

  15. #30
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    Thanks for all the examples, Doris. It must have taken a long time for you to find them all.

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