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Thread: How Levels & GOE are Determined in Ice Dance-Lifts

  1. #31
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    It did, for sure. However, I've learned a lot doing it.

  2. #32
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    Downgraded Straight Line Lifts-What Went Wrong

    Iinykh & Katasalapov's Straight Line Lift in their Ave Maria FD at TEB was downgraded to Level 2.
    Nikita is in a lunge for his difficult position:
    i) Lunge (thigh at least parallel to the ice) with any position of free leg;
    Elena is not lifted until after Nikita is in his position.

    Elena's position is the
    f) balancing in a horizontal position with only one additional point of support;
    (again, the knee) However, she is slow getting horizontal and so does not hold her position for 3 seconds. Level 2.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...8725F8E#t=285s


    At Worlds, she holds the pose longer, and they received a level 4.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d9DeK...ailpage#t=320s

    Zhiganshina & Gaszi, during their Modern Romeo & Juliet FD at Skate America, received level 2
    Alexander is in a straight line spread eagle:
    e) Spread Eagle – on a straight line (for Straight Line Lift only): same edges (one forward, one backward) on the same line;
    Nelli is attempting
    d) upside down combined with difficult hold;
    , but she doesn't hold the upside down position for 3 seconds. Perhaps there was some question about whether the hold was difficult, too?
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?list=PL...F6vN624#t=143s

    However, at Nebelhorn, they had gotten level 4 for the lift, and she did hold the position much longer:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...rS4eCWY#t=158s

    At Worlds, second straight line lift, it's done as a change of pose lift, and they get level 4. It was smart to change the lift, surely.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...mMRDGqE#t=163s


    Riazanova & Tkachenko, at Skate Canada in their Snowstorm FD, got an SlLi2. Unfortunately, the video is not at a great angle.
    Ilia is attempting the one foot position. However, he's on two feet when he lifts her. That's all to waste since she never hits a clear position, and then has trouble with the lift exit, too. So Level 2 is right.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fFqDU...ailpage#t=140s
    So you see, it wasn't just Cup of Russia where Ilia & Katia had skills downgraded.

    At Europeans, they have subsituted a different lift-he's in a two footed crouch, and she is stretched out horizontal. They receive Level 4. Another smart change.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...e8ez0uA#t=140s


    Paul & Islam's straight line lift at Skate America in their 2046/Havana Slide SD was downgraded. Again there are problems with the video. There is no clear shot of Mitchell's feet at the critical time. Mitchell is attempting a one foot difficult position, and he is struggling with it. You can't see his feet at the critical parts of the lift, but I suspect he put his foot down?

    Alexandra's difficult pose is supposed to be :
    e) from a vertical position lady is cantilevered out: lady’s torso is extended away from the man and the only one additional point of support are the hands;
    (assuming hands here means the lifting partner's hands, and not the lifted partner's hands.
    The difficult entry, in this case, in Alexandra's twist before getting into the cantilevered position.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-sW_...tailpage#t=93s
    The lift was a little short, too.

    At Four Continents in the SD, they received Level 4 for this lift.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...9521D90C#t=92s


    Huang & Zheng had a blown lift at Cup of China in their Mambo SD that they recived Level 1 for.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...Y5RSahQ#t=123s
    In fact, it was a close call whether she was in the air for 3 seconds, but they gave them credit for it. They certainly didn't get credit for either his or her difficult pose.

    Here's the level 4 version at Worlds. She's changing pose. He's in a straight line spread eagle.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KluvS...ailpage#t=135s

    The next post will be the Straight Line Lift Grade of Execution post, and I'll review the Difficult Positions and Levels of Difficulty that I have been able to find yet.

  3. #33
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    GOE For Short Straight Line Lifts

    As promised, here is a range of GOE shown in Straight Line Short Lifts.

    The lifts at the top and bottom of the list are there because they represent the extremes of scoring.

    The lifts in the middle are there because either I found them interesting, or they represent either a difficult position or entry that I haven't highlighted before.

    The GOE guidelines are the same as for the Short Curved Lift. You might care to review them, and if you do, they are here, in the post on Curved Lift GOE:

    http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/sho...l=1#post642445

    The base value of all the short lifts is 4.00.

    The maximum GOE you can get is 1.50, so the maximum possible score is 5.5.
    Likewise the minimum score you can get is 2.50

    Because judges can only give scores of -3,-2,-1, 0, +1, +2, +3, and because only 7 judges scores count, since the high and low score are not used, scores occur in increments of 0.07 (half of one seventh, rounded to two places)

    So, a score of 5.50 would be all +3's counting

    A score of 5.00 would have the average judge giving +2

    A score of 4.50 would have the average judge giving +1

    A score of 4.00 would have the average judge giving a 0

    A score of 3.50 would have the average judge giving a score of -1.

    If the lift was worse than that, typically a level would have been lost.

    All of these Short Straight Line Lifts are Level Four:

    Davis & White USA had the highest scoring straight line lift this year. Their best score was at World Team Trophy in their Die Fledermaus FD. 5.43
    (Virtue & Moir did not use a straight line short lift in their programs this year.)

    It's a change of pose lift with Charlie in the ever popular straight line spread eagle. The two poses are clearly established, and done to the music. They have good speed in and out of the lift, and the lift is woven seamlessly into the dance. Check out the distance down the rink that this lift covers, because of the speed.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-HgYA...tailpage#t=53s

    Davis & White USA, GPF FD 5.29 first element (they earned the same score at 4CC's)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...bIfB2kA#t=219s

    Davis & White USA, Worlds FD 5.14 first element
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...zbGgwDDw#t=50s

    Pechalat & Bourzat FRA, Worlds Pharoah & His Mummy FD, 5.07
    Fabian is in a crouch, going backwards. Nathalie is stretched out horizontal, supported on his knee. The arm positions, and general body line are particularly nice.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PfjEG...ailpage#t=100s

    Pechalat & Bourzat FRA, Europeans FD, 5.00 They received the same score at GPF, and 4.93 at WTT, 4.75 at Skate America; and 4.57 at TEB.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...Naj2zkM#t=104s


    Weaver & Poje CAN 5.0 4CCs Historia de un Amor SD 5.0
    Change of pose lift, with Andrew in a straight line spread eagle. The two poses are nicely distinct & established.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...zWNd2pw#t=130s


    Sinitsina & Zhiganshin, RUS JGPF, Phantom of the Opera FD, 5.0
    The entry to the lift, which is "transitional" and not a change of pose, is particularly quick and nice. He's in a crouch, she's stretched out horizontal.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...OkIQTmdA#t=63s



    Chock & Bates USA, Skate Canada, Jazz Chopin FD, 4.92
    Another change of position lift. Evan in a spread eagle. I particularly like the way Madison dances out of the lift.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sEke1...ailpage#t=127s


    Bobrova & Soloviev RUS, Europeans, Faust FD, 4.86
    He's in a crouch. The entry is very fluid, and her flexibility is exceptional here.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...oIRi3RRQ#t=93s

    Kriengkrairut & Giuletti-Schmitt USA, NHK Walking in the Sand FD 4.71
    She's in a full split
    a) Full split: when the legs of the lifted partner are extended in one line with the angle between thighs about 180 degrees;
    and he picks her up with his leg lifting her skating leg! His difficult position is a shoot the duck.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...JSybwGlo#t=49s


    Hubbell & Donohue USA, Mambo/Rhumba/Samba SD, Worlds 4.71
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...iIcnH-4#t=881s
    Her assisted cartwheel into a standing postion on one leg on Zach's thigh is spectacular. She then drops into a horizontal position. He's in a straight line spread eagle. (She is doing a change of pose.)

    Zlobina & Sitnikov AZE, Europeans, Derap by Rene Aubrey FD, 4.64
    He pulls her through his legs and she ends up in a doughnut, he ends up in a two legged crouch.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...4DGJaidM#t=82s


    Siobhan Heekin-Canedy & Dmitri Dun UKR, Notre Dame de Paris FD 4.64
    He's going backwards in a Shoot The Duck Position. She's in a
    b) full “Biellmann”: body upright with the heel of the boot pulled by the hand behind and above the level of the head;
    , standing on his foot.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...1IUKmY4#t=230s

    Hurtado & Diaz ESP, Tristan and Isolde FD, 4.57
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...upSHQLk#t=205s
    He's in a lunge, going backward. She stands on his foot in a Biellmann

    Ralph & Hill CAN, Worlds Harlem Nocturne SD 4.50
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...iIcnH-4#t=456s
    Asher is in a lunge. Kharis is cantilevered out very nicely.
    e) from a vertical position lady is cantilevered out: lady’s torso is extended away from the man and the only one additional point of support are the hands;
    I think the entry is OK-Asher is on one foot when Kharis mounts by sticking one foot into his side & standing on Asher's boot-then he drops to the lunge and she cantilevers out.

    Aldridge & Eaton USA, JGPF Lord of the Dance FD, 4.50
    He's in a straight line spread eagle, she is upside down. In position, she is supported only by her arms around his waist. His arms and her legs form a cross.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...NeFZEewk#t=25s


    Alessandrini & Vaturi ITA, Worlds Mas Que Nada SD, 4.43.
    She's upside down, balanced on his shoulder by her rear end. It's an awkward position, but definitely difficult. He's in a really nice straight line spread eagle.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...IcnH-4#t=1735s

    Hurtado & Diaz ESP, Worlds Mas Que Nada SD 4.36
    Both are really cantilevered out perpendicular to the direction of travel. (He's in a straight line spread eagle cantilever, similar to Klimkin) However, technically, I'd say, she is
    g) leaning out (forwards or backwards) with the only one additional point of support being the legs;
    and he is in a straight line spread eagle(with extras).

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...IcnH-4#t=2096s

    Here's a Cantilever (from that terminology, that should be how Adria's position is described, but that's not how the document is written).
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFrLtSbats8


    Walden & Edwards GBR
    , Europeans Gloria Estefan SD 4.50
    He's in crouch. She's balanced out horizontal across his knee. Very tidy.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...JdrzK28#t=151s

    Viktoria Kavaliova & Yurii Bieliaiev BLR, Jr Worlds Tango Criminale FD 4.50
    He's in a forward lunge, she's stretched out, supported only by her legs.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNzNO...tailpage#t=84s


    Aldridge & Easton USA JGPF I Need to Know/Mambo No 8 SD 4.43 (this element received 4.79 at jr worlds)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJG5G...tailpage#t=26s
    Interesting change of pose lift. The positions could have been a little more refined, but the back and forth motion of the changes worked well with the music.


    Mansour & Zhunussov KAZ, 4CCs Cirque du Soleil FD 2nd element 4.36
    He's in a straight line spread eagle. She's doing a change of pose. The poses are clearly "established" and not "transitional".
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...Im8G0rk#t=115s


    Lichtman & Copley USA at Cup of China, Austin Powers FD. 4.29
    Two foot crouch by him, horizontal position balanced on his knee by her. Twist entry.
    Charlotte & Dean show that you can put humor in lifts, but it is not something the judges reward well.
    I love the disco head bopping!
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KjVWi...tailpage#t=66s

    Lichtmann & Copley USA Cup of China, Austin Powers FD 4.14.
    Change of Position lift (humorous positions, in keeping with the Austin Powers them). Her first position is an example of
    i) extended out with the majority of body weight in a horizontal line with the only one additional point of support being shoulders and/ or upper back.
    If she'd held it, it would have qualified as a difficult position on it's own.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KjVWi...ailpage#t=145s


    Bobrova & Soloviev RUS, Worlds Samba/Rhumba/Samba SD 4.07
    This is a very awkward change of pose lift. His spread eagle is not particularly good. The poses are not clearly "snapshotted" either.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...MqMqU94#t=255s

    Ilinykh & Katsalapov RUS, NHK Ave Maria FD 4.0
    He's in a lunge, she's horizontal, supported only by his legs. There is awkwardness getting into position, and his knee is on the ice.
    It's sobering to think that the Junior couple from Belarus, Viktoria Kavaliova & Yurii Bieliaiev, do a similar lift and can score higher with it.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...KogdAiA#t=270s

    Bruhns & van Natten MEX 4CCs Harlem Nocturne FD 3.79
    She's upside down with difficult hold, he's on one foot. The lift position is awkward, and everything is very slow.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...ao2hiJ0#t=177s


    Pushkash & Guerreiro RUS Skate Canada Capriccio Rhapsody by Paganini FD 3.58
    SC, doing a change of pose lift but having great difficult
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8o7V0...ailpage#t=133s

    Pushkash & Guerreiro RUS Skate Canada Capriccio Rhapsody by Paganini FD -much better - 3 changes of pose 4.50
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4s45Y...ailpage#t=142s

    Any Straight Line Lift questions?

    We are headed on to Stationary Lifts (and since few teams chose to do one, it will be a brief stop) After that we will begin to discuss Long Lifts.
    Last edited by dorispulaski; 05-13-2012 at 11:19 AM.

  4. #34
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    Stationary Lifts

    The rules about Stationary Lifts are exactly the same as for Curved and Straight Line Lifts, except that the team stays in approximately one spot while the lift is performed. In fact, this type of lift is a rather risky proposition on the whole, and the couples who tried it, often suffered downgrades last year.

    The one difference from curved and straight line lifts is that a crouch or lunge can't be used as a difficult position for the man if the lift is not rotating. In all the cases I have found, the lifting partner is spinning, while holding the lifted partner, so this rule doesn't apply to those lifts. The big trick is still to get credit for a difficult entry and/or a difficult position for the man.

    Otherwise, GOE, and Levels are the same as curved and straight line lifts.


    Ralph & Hill CAN did a stationary lift this year in their Tango Free Dance.
    At Skate America, they received a Level 4 (StaLi4), and a score of 4.57
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...Ww404g4#t=149s

    Asher is in a crouch spinning, and Kharis mounts and ends up in horizontal stretch. I'd give it level 4 myself.

    At Worlds, they only received Level 2 for this lift and a score of 2.86
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...lhwo7g0#t=158s

    For Asher to be in the "difficult" version of the crouch position, his thighs must be parallel to the ice. He doesn't get that far down until after Kharis is in the air, and he doesn't hold it for 3 seconds. Level 2.
    Even if he did hold it 3 seconds, it would be Level 3, since he isn't in the position when Kharis is lifted.


    Carron & Jones FRA
    have been doing a Stationary lift the last two years. And they still got a downgrade to level 3 at the beginning of the season at Cup of China. I have the previous lift shown, because it is part of the entry sequence to the stationary lift.:

    CoC FD: However the 4.36 indicates that the panel really liked this lift. Its base score was 3.5, combined with GOE of 0.86.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...A8gIB2mk#t=85s

    He's in a crouch, holding her with one arm, and she's stretched out horizontal from centrifugal force as much as anything.

    They don't get credit for a difficult entry. He isn't into the crouch until after he lifts her. But is there anything about the entry that could be difficult?

    At Cup of Russia, they received Level 4, and a score of 4.71
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...A8gIB2mk#t=90s

    This time they do get credit for the entry-is he considered in the difficult position when she leaves the ice? I don't think so. Perhaps the tech panel gave them credit for an "unexpected" entry, because it is essentially out of the previous lift, plus a turn. Certainly the flow between the two elements was a lot better at Cup of Russia.

    Carron & Jones At Europeans (They didn't qualify for the FD at Worlds this year.)The Stationary lift is the first eleement in the program, and they received a score of 4.79 for it,
    They went back to the Gershwin medley FD from last year, so that the entry to the lift is different from Cup of Russia & China.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hsaTi...tailpage#t=15s

    The entry steps look difficult..look at this again- I believe they got credit for:

    c) entry from a difficult transition by the lifting partner: series of at least two difficult Turns (e.g. Bracket, Choctaw, Counter, Outside Mohawk,but not progressives) before the Dance Lift

    Alessandrini & Vaturi ITA received at Level4 at NHK and a score of 4.5

    From a dance spin, they went directly into the stationary lift. He's on one leg. She's doing a doughnut.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...s7rpVYEk#t=55s

    At Worlds, they only received a Level 2 and a score of 2.86.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...s7rpVYEk#t=47s

    There is an error in the protocol which shows the lift as their final element, rather than as the third element. Apparently, the tech panel put it back in after reviewing the spin. However, I guess that she didn't get credit for the doughnut.

    Kosigina & Moroshkin RUS have a Stationary lift in their FD at the JGP Volvo Cup in Riga for which they received Level 4 and a score of 4.36.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L80ip...ailpage#t=120s

    Straight out of the twizzles, followed by two turns, he's on one foot, picks her up, continues to rotate on one foot, she's in a donut with her other leg matching (almost his)

    It appears that the attempt at a difficult entry is:

    c) entry from a difficult transition by the lifting partner: series of at least two difficult Turns (e.g. Bracket, Choctaw, Counter, Outside Mohawk,
    but it may be meant to be that Moroshkin is trying to get on one leg before he picks up Kosigina, which is a hard thing to do while spinning.

    Kosigina & Moroshkin FD JGP Tallin Level3 3.71 fourth element
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2YSzd...ailpage#t=115s

    Certainly, the steps here are not as nice as in the first version. And to my eyes, both times he picked her up before he was on one foot.

    And now some teams who didn't ever receive Level 4 for their Stationary Lifts:

    Heritage & Fast USA in their FD at JGP Brisbane received Level 2 and a score of 2.80 (base 2.5) .
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yejzh...ailpage#t=155s
    She's in a doughnut, he's in a crouch. I don't think he stayed down in the crouch long enough, and so didn't get credit for the difficult position. Her transitional entry to this lift was interesting, and I wonder whether they would get credit for her spinning into the lift to start? I think they should get it.

    Simonova & Dragun RUS, in their FD at JGP Brasov reeived level 3 and a score of 3.57 (base 3.5).http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...EWQ6-h6E#t=80s

    They enter the lift from a gorgeous and rather unique pair spin, so you have to wait through the pair spin to see where he picks her up. She is in a Biellmann position. Apparently the tech callers here did not think entering it from a pair spin was difficult. I would say they are wrong, but what do I know?


    O'Brien & Merriman AUS did a stationary lift for a level 2 and a score of 3.0 at Worlds in their Moonlight Serenade FD. He does the spin on one foot. She's in a doughnut. Since he's clearly on one foot, she didn't get credit for the doughnut. But it's really a pretty lift. Again, I'd be interested to see whether they would have gotten credit for this entry for the level 4.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...MgZTaTY#t=192s

    At 4CC's, O'Brien & Merriman Danielle stumbled going into the lift, so that neither was able to get credit for a difficult position. They received a Level 1 and a score of 1.14

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...LOJdisA#t=220s

    Those are all the Stationary Lifts that were performed internationally in this season that I could find. It is not a popular move, and has become even less popular now that guidelines are strict about crouches needing thighs parallel to the ice.

    And that's all for Short Lifts. The next post will be on Long Lifts and Combination Lifts.

    And I wish anyone that is enjoying this series would tell me about it, and tell me what you'd like to see me cover when I finish with Lifts?
    Last edited by dorispulaski; 05-13-2012 at 12:34 PM.

  5. #35
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    Now that we turn to long lifts, the most important thing about them is how they have almost disappeared from ice dance in the last couple years.

    And, a look at the history of scoring for lifts shows that the ice dance technical community has struggled with lifts-how many there should be, what type they should be, and how much they should be scored.

    The initial thing I remember from free dance commentary was that the main difference between a free dance and a pairs LP was that there were no jumps or throws, and the lifts were to be short ones, restricted to ones where the man's hands did not go above his shoulders. Or something like that.

    The first FD I remember belonged to Lyudmila Pakhomova & Alexander Gorshkov at the 1976 Olympics. I feel in love with ice dance at once! The Flamenco part was to die for


    Pakhomova & Gorshkov 1976 Melancholy & Spanish Flamenco Tortello
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45GO_zqT2RY

    This is the longest lift in the program
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45GO_...tailpage#t=21s

    There are perhaps 3 little assisted repositionings that wouldn't qualify as lifts today. And without any long lifts at all, it was a lovely and interesting program.

    Moving ahead eight years, I want to look at the Olympic FD of Torvill and Dean, always called ground breakers in ice dance:

    Jayne Torvill & Christopher Dean 1984 Bolero http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t2zbbN4OL98

    Other than the interesting stationary lifts to start the program, and whose main purpose was to allow them to stall the beginning of skating, so that they could fit the whole program, as timed, within the guidelines, there are no even slightly extended lifts until the final "Falling into the Volcano" lift at the end:

    Lift One - nice Curved Lift
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t2zbb...ailpage#t=129s

    Lift two - straight line lift
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t2zbb...ailpage#t=157s

    Lift three-Rotational lift to end
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t2zbb...ailpage#t=264s

    There were a couple little assisted leaps and jumps that didn't stay aloft long enough to qualify as lifts, and which are reminiscent of the Pakhomova & Gorshkov era.

    By the time of Klimova & Ponomarenko, lifts are more important, and the lifts are some of the more memorable things about the program, but they're aren't a lot of them:

    Klimova & Ponomarenko 1992 FD Bach Toccata and Fugue (Air)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kl-niom1jc8

    They start with a stationary lift
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kl-ni...tailpage#t=41s

    Lift 1
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kl-ni...tailpage#t=80s

    Lift 2 - really gorgeous curved lift
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kl-ni...tailpage#t=94s

    Lift 3 -beautiful straight line lift
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kl-ni...ailpage#t=184s

    Lift 4 short rotational lift
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kl-ni...ailpage#t=260s

    Lift 5 Straight Line Lift to end
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kl-ni...ailpage#t=276s

    During the rest of the program were many little assisted leaps by Marina that probably wouldn't be done today for fear of being confused with lifts, but which remind older fans of Pakhomova & Gorhkov.

    Things hadn't changed much with respect to lifts by 1997, when Grishuk & Platov won Europeans (and later Worlds) with this amazing free dance:

    1997 Grishuk & Platov The Feeling Begins FD

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aLmywlzRkv0

    Rotational Lift1
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...ywlzRkv0#t=63s

    Rotational Lift2
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...ywlzRkv0#t=76s

    Curve Lift with a rotation out2
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...wlzRkv0#t=134s

    A couple of the quick assists that are not really lifts, a nod to the old days; this is one.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...wlzRkv0#t=236s

    and their ending pose is another.

    In 1998, Anissina & Peizerat's Romeo and Juliet program introduced the era of excessive lifts, which continued up to the introduction of COP:

    Here it is, at Worlds:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdXXk6xtFuU


    For old time fans, it was either a moment to say, "Enough with the hand to hand skating and lifts already," or to say, "This is new and hugely exciting."

    So when COP was introduced, ice dancing had just gone through this period of excessive lifts, best exemplified by Anissina & Peizerat. Here's their 2000 FD, Carmina Burana, which won Worlds that year, broken down by lifts:

    Anissina & Peizerat 2000 Carmina Burana FD
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fsvq-N7xAtc

    Lift 1 I suppose this would be a combination lift SlLi1+CuLi2
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fsvq-...tailpage#t=29s

    Lift 2 Rotational Lift, but they pause in the middle, which 2ouldn't be done nowadays.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fsvq-...tailpage#t=92s

    Lift 3 Straight Line Lift
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fsvq-...ailpage#t=155s

    Lift 4 This one would have to be a transitional lift these days
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fsvq-...ailpage#t=210s

    Lift 5 Gender Bender Curved Lift
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fsvq-...ailpage#t=238s

    Lift 6 Rotational Lift
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fsvq-...ailpage#t=244s

    The lifting partner of whichever sex was seldom, if ever in a difficult position in this program. The lengths of the lifts were very varied (today, they come in two lengths. And there were a lot of them.

    The first Worlds with COP was 2005, after a year of introductory competitions that did not include Worlds. Let's have a look at how COP looked, coming out of the box:


    At 2005 Worlds, Tatiana Navka & Roman Kostamarov won the FD & the World Championship. with this routine to Tosca:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjv3J...eature=related

    There were 11 elements in the FD at the time. There wasn't much time for anything but elements:
    There were two twizzle sequences. STw4 was the first,
    Followed by a Combination spin, CoSp3,

    Then a Straight Line lift, SlLi4 (2.5+0.71=3.21)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjv3J...tailpage#t=79s

    And a Reverse Rotational Lift RRoLi4 (4.2+0.79=4.99)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjv3J...ailpage#t=104s

    And a curved lift CuLi4 (2.5+0.93=3.43)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjv3J...ailpage#t=122s

    And a second spin, Sp3,
    Then a circular step0, CCiSt2
    Diagonal step DiSt2
    A second twizzle sequence, Tw4

    And two more lifts
    A serpentine lift SeLi4 (4.2+0.93=5.13)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjv3J...ailpage#t=245s

    and a final rotational lift RoLi4 3.5+0.43 =3.93
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjv3J...ailpage#t=264s


    Lifts were worth approximately 44% of the base value of a routine.

    Again from 2005:

    Tanith Belbin & Benjamin Agosto's FD Shadritsa 2nd place in the FD

    (For these 2nd through 5th place programs, I'm just going to highlight the long lifts, but you can always play them over by pulling the status button back to the beginning. It was a good year for ice dance at Worlds, I think, and worth watching.)

    Serpentine Lift SeLi4 (4.2+0.79=4.99)
    Check out the curves from the overhead camera.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFcRI...ailpage#t=120s

    And a combination lift (CuLi4+RoLi4 (4.6+0.57=5.17)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...IdYbo_0#t=162s


    Isabelle Delobel & Olivier Schoenfelder's FD Frida in third place in the FD
    Serpentine (4.2+0.71=4.91)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...Sk3yo-4#t=153s


    Combination lift (SlLi4+RoLi4 = 4.2+0.64 = 4.84)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...Sk3yo-4#t=269s

    Navka & Kostamarov had the highest scoring Reverse Rotational Lift (4.99)

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjv3J...ailpage#t=104s

    and the highest scoring Serpentine Lift (5.13)

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjv3J...ailpage#t=245s

    Albena Denkova & Maxim Staviyski (5th in the FD) had the highest scoring combinationation lift CuLi4+RoLi4 5.31 first element in their Bach to Africa program
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7r6D1...tailpage#t=47s


    Elena Grushina & Ruslan Goncharov were 4th in the FD
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=6thwUUHHuIc

    And so that was the history and starting point for lifts in COP.

    Next time, we'll mosey along and see how it developed in the seven years from 2005 to 2012.

    I hope someone has questions or comments!

  6. #36
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    So in 2005, Lifts were scored like this:

    2005 elements
    Navka & Kostomarov won the 2005 FD.
    Tosca
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iufwGKka3M4
    Base value
    SlLi4 2.5
    RRoLi4 4.2
    CuLi4 3
    SeLi4 4.2
    RoLi4 3.5

    Total base value due to lifts: 17.4
    TOTAL base value:
    45% of the base value was from lifts.

    Note that the long lifts are nowhere near worth twice as much as the short lifts.

    11 scored elements, 5 lifts

    2006 elements
    Dubreuil & Lauzon won the Free Dance that year with this Lift layout:
    Somewhere in Time:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dtoe1lfea5w

    RoLi4 4.00
    RRoLi4 5.60
    CuLi4+RoLi4 5.60
    SlLi4 4.00


    TOT program Base Value 46.50 Total base value of lifts: 19.20
    Percent of base value due to lifts of total base value: 41.29%
    9 scored elements, of which 4 lifts (one lift less than the previous year.)
    And it was in 2006 that deductions began to be given for extended lifts.

    2007
    Denkova & Staviyski won the FD with their Seven Deadly Sins Program
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IOSF_AtGBog

    CuLi4 4.00
    SeLi4 6.40
    CuLi4+RoLi4 6.40
    SlLi4 4.00


    TOT base value 44.50 Total base value for lifts 20.80
    46.74%

    8 scored elements, one less than the previous year.
    There were still 4 lifts, two short, and two long.

    And scores for long lifts are still not twice the score for short lifts.

    In 2008, Virtue & Moir won the free dance
    Umbrellas of Cherbourg
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SRjqNbM9RHM

    2008 elements
    V&M

    CuLi4+RoLi4 6.40
    SlLi4 4.00
    RoLi4 4.00
    SeLi4 6.40


    TOT 44.40 20.80
    46.85%
    8 scored elements
    4 lifts.
    This is the same structure as the previous year.

    In 2009, Domnina & Shabalin won the free dance with their Spartacus program.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nGnIcRjy4iU

    And the rules changed again. Only one long lift was required.

    SlLi4+RoLi4 6.40
    CuLi4 4.00
    RoLi4 4.00
    SlLi4 4.00


    TOT base value 42.00 Total base value for lifts 18.40
    Percent of program base value due to lifts .43.81%
    8 scored elements.
    4 lifts, one long, and three short.

    Now that only one long lift was required, immediately teams preferred to choose combination lifts over serpentine and reverse rotational lifts. 17 of 24 teams chose to do combination lifts. 5 of 24 teams chose to do serpentine lifts. 2 teams chose to do reverse rotational lifts. A look at the last year's data, when all teams did two lifts, did not show any particular propensity for serpentine lifts to score lower, or to have an extended lift penalty assigned versus combination lifts.

    I can only assume the teams just like combination lifts better.

    In 2010, Davis & White won the Free Dance at Worlds with their Phantom of the Opera program
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bSbp36h6ky8


    SlLi4+RoLi4 8.00
    SlLi4 4.00
    RoLi4 4.00

    TOT base value 42.40 Total base value of the lifts 16.00
    37.74%
    There are 7 elements, one long lift and two short required. (One less than the previous year.
    And this is the first year that a long lift was worth twice what a short lift was.

    Three teams did a serpentine lift. One team chose to do a Reverse Rotational Lift.

    In 2011, a team could chose to do either 4 short lifts, or 2 short lifts and one long lift. In 2011, the maximum points for lifts was 0.50 lift, due to a GOE miscalculation. Many teams chose the all short lift option.

    In 2011 Davis & White won the FD at Worlds with their Tango Free Dance.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOeoEaDcrag

    Davis & White chose the four short lift option.

    SlLi4 4.00
    CuLi4 4.00
    RoLi4 4.00
    RoLi4 4.00


    TOT 41.50 base value 16.00 for lifts
    38.55%
    7 or 8 scored elements, depending on whether 3 or 4 lifts were done.

    Nine teams chose to do three lifts, with a combination long lift.
    Two teams chose to do three lifts, with a serpentine lift.
    Nine teams chose to do four short lifts.
    No team did a reverse rotational lift.

    In 2012 Virtue and Moir won the FD at Worlds with their Funny Face FD.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RwbgR_PAErE

    CuLi4 4.00
    RoLi4 4.00
    SlLi4+RoLi4 8.00



    TOT 41.50 total base value, 16.00 base value points for lifts.
    38.55% of the base value was lifts
    7 or 8 scored elements, depending on whether a team chose to do 3 or 4 lifts

    Eight of 20 teams chose to do a combination lift.
    One team chose to do a Reverse Rotational Lift.
    No team chose to do a Serpentine lift.

    So we see that the Reverse Rotational and Serpentine Lift are going the way of the Axel Entry Twist in pair skating; a neat trick not worth the trouble.

    Perhaps as we compare the requirements for the three types of long lifts, we can determine why the Serpentine & Reverse Rotational Lifts have fallen out of favor more than Combination Lifts.

    I'll start with Combination Lifts, since those are now the most frequently seen types.
    Last edited by dorispulaski; 05-15-2012 at 11:08 PM.

  7. #37
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    We've already discussed Straight Line Lifts, Curved Lifts, and Rotational Lifts.

    Every Combination Lift contains two of the above three lifts, and is allowed to take 12 seconds, rather than six seconds. It has a base value of 8.0 points rather than 4.0 points.

    In general, the rules for a Curved Lift, for example, as part of a Combination Lift, are the same as for a stand-alone Curved Lift. However, there are subtleties connected with the fact that the Curved Lift in a Combination will have either an entry, or a dismount, but not both.

    Here's what the rules look like.

    The first issue is what to call an attempted combination lift that does not quite come off:

    COMBINATION LIFTS
    1. A Combination Lift shall be identified with the first two fully established Types of Short Lifts performed forming two approximately equal parts or it shall be identified as a Short Lift of the Type forming the larger part. The Level of each of the two Types of Short Lifts shall be given separately.
    And when it is so bad that it constitutes an illegal iteration of a lift, so that there is no credit at all.


    ALL LONG LIFTS
    1. If an error occurs in the first or second part of an attempted Long Lift, so that the second part (second Type of Short Lift of an attempted Combination Lift, reverse rotations of an attempted Reverse Rotational Lift, second curve of an attempted Serpentine Lift) cannot be identified, the performed part of the Dance Lift shall be identified as a Type of Short Lift (first Type of Short Lift in case of an attempted Combination Lift, Rotation Lift in case of an attempted Reverse Rotational Lift, Curve Lift in case of an attempted Serpentine Lift), given the reached Level and classified as “Combo”, in order to avoid that a subsequent similar Type of Short Lift be classified as Extra Element (the word “Combo” means an intention to skate one Long Lift).
    Moving right ahead to COMBINATION LIFTS in particular:
    Combination Lift
    Any Level 3 Short Lift (except Rotational Lift Option 2) forming any of the two parts of a Combination Lift is upgraded to Level 4 if the Short Lift forming the first part of the Combination Lift is performed with a Creative/Difficult Entry.
    So if you did a Straight Line Lift with a creative & difficult entry (even in not Level 4, for some reason), the Curved Lift you did as a second part of a combination lift could still be Level 4, by virtue of the entry on the first straight line lift.

    And if both lifts require the creative and difficult entry on the first lift, the team may suffer a double downgrade.
    Consequently, the smartest choice for a the combination would be a change of pose lift, coupled with a rotational lift that doesn't require a difficult entry to obtain level 4. It's why you don't see a lot of combinations that don't include a rotational lift.


    A Rotational Lift Option 2 Level 3 forming any of the two parts of a Combination Lift is upgraded to Level 4 if it is performed with a One Hand/Arm Rotational Lift Extra Feature.
    However, I haven't seen all that many teams chose the one arm option in combination lifts.

    And finally:

    These adjustments are the same ones we saw for rotational and curved, straight and stationary lifts:

    Adjustments to Levels:
    1. In a Rotational Lift or Reverse Rotational Lift, if the lifting partner rotates for a while, stops rotation, and then continues to rotate some more, if the lifted partner is in a Difficult Pose when the rotation stops, the Level shall be reduced by one Level.
    2. If a loss of control with additional support (touch down by free leg/foot and/or hand(s)) occurs after a Dance Lift has commenced and the Dance Lift continues after touchdown (without interruption), its Level shall be reduced by 1 Level per touchdown (in a Combination Lift only the Level of the Short Lift where the touchdown occurred shall be reduced by 1 Level).
    And because the one hand/arm option is used in combination lifts, I'm repeating its requirements:
    One Hand/Arm Rotational Lift Extra Feature:
    Only One Hand/Arm Lift is used to lift, hold and set down the lifted partner, and
    �� the lifting partner is on one foot for at least one rotation;
    �� and/or the lifting partner significantly changes the level of his skating legs (knees) with a continuous motion;
    �� and/or the lifting partner’s holding arm is fully extended in front with a significant distance between partners.
    Notes:
    �� if performed as the first part of a Combination Lift, the setting down in One Hand/Arm Lift requirement does not apply;
    �� if performed as the second part of a Combination Lift, the lifting in One Hand/Arm Lift requirement does not apply.
    So next post, we'll look at some combination lifts.

  8. #38
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    As I said before, Eight of 20 teams chose to do a combination lift at worlds. Only one team did a reverse rotational lift. The other 11 teams chose the four short lift option.
    The GOE rules and adjustments to GOE are just the same for combination lifts as for Rotational, Curved, Straight Line or Stationary Lifts.

    For those wanting a refresher, the rules for assigning levels to rotational lifts is here:
    http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/sho...l=1#post641479

    the GOE for rotational dance lifts is laid out in this post:
    http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/sho...l=1#post641956

    The rules for technical levels for Curved Lifts, Stationary Lifts, and Straight Line Lifts are here, including definitions of difficult positions and difficult entries:
    http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/sho...l=1#post642045


    And the rules for GOE of Curved, Stationary, and Straight Line Lifts are here:
    http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/sho...l=1#post642445


    In a combination lift, each point of GOE is one point of score. The base level is 8.0.

    So the best possible score is 11.00. (+3)

    The next best possible is 10.0 (+2)

    Then 9.00 (+1)

    and 8.00 (GOE of 0)

    and 7.00 (GOE of -1)
    Generally if the lift is worse than -1, something will have been downgraded as well.


    So here are the lifts. Virtue and Moir had the best combination lift all year (perfect score at 4CC's) during their Funny Face free dance. (Davis & White did not do a combination lift this year.)

    Virtue & Moir CAN received 10.71 at Worlds, and 11.0 at Four Continents for this
    SlLi4+RoLi4 combination lift:

    Worlds
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...R_PAErE#t=244s

    4CC's
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...RBIPTxI#t=241s


    Notice that Scott switches from a straight line spread eagle to an Ina Bauer (by ice dance rules, this is rather unlike, say, Shizuka Arikawa doing an Ina Bauer) during the straight line lift. An Ina Bauer is one of the difficult positions I haven't called out yet.

    f) Ina Bauer: same or different edge (one forward one backward) on parallel tracing;
    Pechalat & Bourzat FRA received 10.29 for this combination lift at Worlds during their Pharoah & His Mummy free dance, and 10.14 at Europeans.
    SlLi4+RoLi4
    The clip here is from Europeans. I particularly like the way they enter the Straight Line Lift back to back, and that they keep the "Egyptian hands" motif going throughout the lift, and that there is no hesitation or rearrangement awkwardness between the two lifts.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GV_4_...ailpage#t=170s

    Shibutanis USA, in their Moonlight Serenade free dance, received 9.7 at the GPF for this lift.
    SlLi4+RoLi4 I love the way that she rises up in the second positionof the straight line lift. And I like that a one arm position is used during the change of pose in the rotational lift. Here it is:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?list=PL...XfuwoAz0#t=95s

    Zlobina & Sitnikov AZE got 9.57 at Europeans for this lift in their Derap ( Rene Aubrey )
    CuLi4+RoLi4 Here is their Worlds version, which only scored 9.14

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...N3GFyEc#t=213s

    And here is the Europeans version (actually the World version shows what is going on better, in my opinion)
    She has an outstanding "cantilevered out" position, and he is very steady on one foot. I like the way she corkscrews down in the rotational lift, too.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GK6N9...ailpage#t=206s


    Coomes & Buckland GBR received 9.29 at Europeans for this lift in their Elvis Medley free dance.
    SlLi4+RoLi4. I like the way she dives over his shoulder to do a one armed hand stand on his foot, but the rotational lift changes of pose are rather awkward.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...ZZPSJt4k#t=72s

    At this point, the following lifts are good, but not special:


    Carron & Jones FRA received 9.14 for this lift from their Gershwin Medley FD at Europeans
    cuLi4+RoLi4
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...ijoX954#t=125s

    Hubbell & Donohue USA, recieve 9.00 for this lift in their I Put a Spell on You free dance at Worlds
    SlLi4+RoLi4
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...iMogeYY#t=220s

    Kolbe & Caruso GER received 9.0 for this lift in their Love Story FD
    SlLi4+RoLi4
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...-koM_i4g#t=64s

    Huang & Zheng CHN received 9.0 at Worlds in their Tango free dance. The changes of pose in the straight line lift were jouncy and not smooth.
    SlLi4+RoLi4
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...xb0UjbTQ#t=69s

    And you don't see very many combination lifts without the latter of the two lifts being rotational.
    Here's one:

    Walden & Edwards GBR got 9.0 at Europeans during their "Love Actually" free dance:
    SlLi4+CuLi4
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...HJQv1tBg#t=89s

    Guignard & Fabbri ITA got 8.86 at Europeans in their The Godfather FD.
    SlLi4+RoLi4
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...8aAywmB4#t=58s

    And the lowest scoring Level 4 combination lift was by Yu & Wang of CHN, who received 8.57 for this lift at 4CCs in their Howl's Moving Castle FD (the main additonal problem they had is that especially during the rotational lift, this is very slow over the ice).
    CuLi4+RoLi4
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...NM_2kZA#t=208s




    Now that we've looked at lifts that received their level, here's some that didn't.

    Tobias & Stagniunas LTU (9.43 at Europeans, but their rotational lift was downgraded at Worlds)
    SlLi4+RoLi4
    Here's the level four Europeans version:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...pXkSBXc#t=138s

    They got SlLi4+RoLi3 at Worlds
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QuibO...ailpage#t=162s

    Now why was this downgraded? Since they got level 4 for the straight line lift, they got credit for a difficult entry. So the problem is with the rotational lift itself. If Isabelle's split position is considered 180 degrees enough, she needs four rotations (and Deividas needs 5) to qualify for level 4. If it isn't, she needs 5 rotations, and he needs six. Her split was noticeably not 180 degrees, and she clearly didn't have 5 rotations.

    Hubbell & Donohue USA received a downgrade at 4CC's on their rotational lift. Again, they got credit for a difficult entry, as the straight line lift is level four because he is in the difficult spread eagle position when she stands on his skate.
    SlLi4+RoLi2 (They got SlLi4+RoLi4 at Worlds)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...6phkJkA#t=227s

    Here's the Worlds version for comparison.
    SlLi4+RoLi4
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...iMogeYY#t=220s

    It seems to me that her foot slipped off her head in the hair cutter position, so they didn't get credit for her position at 4CC's.


    Demirsal & Akalin TUR 7.07 at Volvo cup had their straight line lift downgraded. She never gets into a difficult position. And he isn't in the crouch when she is lifted, so there is no difficult entry either. However, they have plenty of rotations on the rotational lift and still get the level for that.
    SlLi2+RoLi4
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...fqZmO5c#t=142s

    At worlds, they get credit.

    SlLi4+RoLi4 jr worlds
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...WH1lUpY#t=185s

    Kubova & Kiselev CZE had their Curve Lift downgraded-she has trouble getting into the split, and doesn't hold it long enough for the level.
    SlLi4+CuLi2 Europeans
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...sChvPJA#t=209s

    And here's an example of how losing the "difficult entry" feature gets you a double downgrade, if you do a combination of a straight line and a curved lift. He's not in the difficult one foot position when she is lifted, so the question is, does her mount involve a significant transitional move for her? If not, both the Straight Line and the following Curved Lift are downgraded:

    Pecherkina & Jakushin LAT 7.34
    SlLi3+CuLi3 Volvo cup 6th element
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...tZAS3oM#t=175s

    They received Level 4's at Baltic Cup.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...tZAS3oM#t=173s

    It's not a huge surprise that they chose not to do a combination at Junior Worlds.

    And thereby hangs a tale.
    Last edited by dorispulaski; 05-18-2012 at 05:14 AM.

  9. #39
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    Not one team at Senior Worlds, Europeans, Four Continents, or on the Senior or Junior Grand Prix did a Serpentine Lift this year. And that's a sad state of affairs. They used to be common, when the teams had to include two long lifts of different types in their programs. 2008 was the last season when that was true. So to begin, let's look at some level 4 serpentine lifts from the past. I have not included the scores, because these lifts, done in different seasons, were done under different rules.

    The hallmark of a serpentine lift is that it is two curved lifts, done back to back, so that the track on the ice is an "S". This can be achieved by a change of edge, or by taking a half turn between the two curved lifts without a change of edge.

    FORMAL DEFINITION OF A SERPENTINE LIFT

    A Dance Lift in which the lifting partner travels on two different curves of approximately similar curvature and duration. The pattern must be serpentine shaped (“S”). The change of direction of the pattern may incorporate a turn of not more than ½ rotation. After the completion of the 2 curves the couple may skate additional curve(s) or rotate (up to 1 rotation) but this will not be counted.
    LEVEL ONE
    Lifted partner is held off the ice for at least 3 seconds on each curve.
    LEVEL TWO

    OPTION 1
    Lifted partner:
    sustains a different Difficult Pose for 3 seconds on each curve
    OR
    moves through a Change of Pose on each curve
    OR
    sustains a Difficult Pose for 3 seconds on one curve and moves through a Change of Pose on the other curve

    OPTION 2
    Lifted partner sustains a Difficult Pose for 3 second or moves through a Change of Pose on one curve
    AND
    Lifting partner sustains a Difficult Position for 3 seconds on one curve.

    OPTION 3
    Lifting partner sustains a different Difficult Position for 3 seconds on each curve
    LEVEL THREE

    Lifted partner sustains a different Difficult Pose for 3 seconds on each curve

    OR

    Lifted partner moves through a Change of Pose on each curve
    OR
    Lifted partner sustains a Difficult Pose for 3 seconds on one curve and moves through a Change of Pose on the other curve

    AND

    Lifting partner sustains a different Difficult Position for 3 seconds on each curve


    LEVEL FOUR

    Requirements for Level 3
    AND
    Creative/Difficult Entry
    Additional calling principles for a Serpentine Lift
    Applicable to Long Lifts:
    1. If an error occurs in the first or second part of an attempted Long Lift, so that the second part (second Type of Short Lift of an attempted Combination Lift, reverse rotations of an attempted Reverse Rotational Lift, second curve of an attempted Serpentine Lift) cannot be identified, the performed part of the Dance Lift shall be identified as a Type of Short Lift (first Type of Short Lift in case of an attempted Combination Lift, Rotation Lift in case of an attempted Reverse Rotational Lift, Curve Lift in case of an attempted Serpentine Lift), given the reached Level and classified as “Combo”, in order to avoid that a subsequent similar Type of Short Lift be classified as Extra Element (the word “Combo” means an intention to skate one Long Lift).

    Additionally, Serpentine lifts have an additional specification in GOE judging guidelines, called Change of Curve. So I'll restate the whole GOE table, with the additions highlighted:

    GOE

    -3 (Very Poor)
    Entry or exit: shaky or dropped
    Ascent or descent: very brief
    Stability: lose balance
    If any Change of pose: awkward
    Both curves very flat and too short

    -2 (Poor)
    Entry or exit: fumbling
    Ascent or descent: struggling
    Stability: unstable
    If any change of pose: discontinuous
    Both curves flat and not equal

    -1 (Mediocre)
    Entry or exit: hesitant or abrupt
    Ascent or descent: much effort
    Stability: variable
    If any change of pose: labored
    One curve flat or one curve too short

    0 (Acceptable)
    Entry or exit: sure and solid
    Ascent or descent: some effort
    Stability: stable
    If any change of pose: controlled
    Similar shallow curves

    +1 (Good)
    Entry or exit: smooth
    Ascent or descent: little effort
    Stability: sure
    If any change of pose: smooth
    Curves equal and fairly deep


    +2 (Very Good)
    Entry or exit: flowing
    Ascent or descent: with ease
    Stability: confident
    if any change of pose: flowing
    Curves equal and deep


    +3 (Outstanding/Excellent)
    Entry or exit: seamless
    Ascent or descent: floating, effortless
    Stability: relaxed and bold
    if any change of pose: effortless
    Curves equal and very deep
    And adjustments can be made to GOE for these situations:

    Increase one grade (each, presumably)
    Body lines and pose of both partners beautiful and esthetically pleasing
    Speed maintained or accelerated during the dance lift
    Dance Lift with special attribute for lifting partner
    Entry is unexpected and/or creative
    Dance lift reflects the character of the chosen dance and fits to the phrasing of the music.

    Decrease by one grade (each presumably):
    Pose awkward or not aesthetically pleasing
    More than 1/2 turn within Straight Line or Curve lift or between curves for serpentine lift
    Dance Lift does not fit the character of the chosen dance
    Dance Lift does not fit the phrasing of the music.

    Clearly, a combination lift with one straight line and one curved lift is can be more easily used to get full credit for a lift than can a serpentine lift, and that alone explains why so few are done any more, now that only one long lift is allowed, and that all short lifts is a legal option.

    So for old Tyme's sake, here are some nice serpentine lifts.



    2006 Denkova & Staviyski BUL Adagio by Albinoni Serpentine Lift, with Maxim on one foot in second part of lift, an unusual option. The speed throughout the lift is excellent, but I have to say that the lengths and curvature of the two sections of the lift are not equal,
    SeLi4
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tads6...ailpage#t=245s

    2007 Davis & White USAPolovetsian Dances FD. Charlie uses the one legged crouch with one leg to the side for his second Difficult position. Again, the second section of the lift is a bit shorter than the first section.
    SeLi4
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...-svt_do#t=158s


    2007 Denkova & Staviyski BUL Seven Deadly Sins Serpentine Lift
    SeLi4 (Enjoy their great depth of edge here. Maxim does an inside spread eagle for one half of the lift and an outside spread eagle for the other half.)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...lJYcvd8#t=104s


    2008 Delobel & Schoenfelder FRAThe Piano Serpentine Lift
    SeLi4
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7NDBF...ailpage#t=228s

    2008 Belbin & Agosto CANChopin Serpentine Lift
    A pretty lift, and Ben's use of a one foot position for the first lift is a nice variation. Unfortunately, the curve on his one foot lift is rather shallow.
    SeLi4
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hn1Cj...tailpage#t=42s

    2008 Virtue & Moir CANUmbrellas of Cherbourg serpentine lift.
    SeLi4
    Tessa's upside position in one of the two sections of the lift is special, but the curve Scott skates is much deeper on the second section of the lift than the first.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...hKEoYII#t=252s


    2008 Khoklova & Novitski RUSA Night on Bald Mountain. A stunning lift, but again, the second section is on a deeper edge.
    SeLi4
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OlR_0...tailpage#t=33s

    By 2009, very few teams were doing a serpentine lift. Two were Crone & Poirier and Pechalat & Bourzat. Three examples of their lifts:


    2009 Crone & Poirier CAN YoYo Ma Perfect Day Serpentine Lift
    SlLi4
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79vYV...ailpage#t=175s

    2010 Pechalat & Bourzat CANserpentine lift Circus (Entry of the Gladiators by Fucik)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFPrs...ailpage#t=125s


    2011 Crone & Poirier CAN Eleanor Rigby Serpentine
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QDp7C...ailpage#t=170s

    And so, that is the end of Serpentine Lifts, both in real life, and in this thread.

    The next post will be about Reverse Rotational Lifts, which have been if anything, less frequently used than Serpentine Lifts.
    Last edited by dorispulaski; 05-18-2012 at 12:30 PM.

  10. #40
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    Reverse Rotational Lifts.

    Reverse Rotational Lifts have never been frequent, and since there is no longer a requirement to have two long lifts from different families in the Free Dance, they are even less frequent.

    To be identified as a Reverse Rotational Lift, as quoted below, the lifting partner must move through more than one rotation in both directions.

    Applicable to Reverse Rotational Lifts:
    1. A Reverse Rotational Lift shall be identified as such if the lifting partner moves through more than one rotation in both directions.
    2. In each direction of a Reverse Rotational Lift, if the lifting partner stops traveling, the rotations and Difficult Pose/Position or Change of Pose in that direction from that point on shall not be considered for Level.
    Levels are called as follows:

    LEVEL ONE

    Lifted partner is held off the ice through at least 2 rotations in each direction

    AND

    Lifting partner moves through at least at least 2 rotations in each direction


    LEVEL TWO
    OPTION 1
    Lifted partner sustains a Difficult Pose through at least 2 rotations or moves through a Change of Pose in one direction

    AND
    Lifting partner moves through at least 5 rotations in total (at least 2 rotations in each direction)
    Or you can:

    OPTION 2
    Lifting partner in One Hand/ArmLift through at least 2 rotations in one direction

    LEVEL THREE
    OPTION 1
    Lifted partner: sustains a different Difficult Pose through at least 3 rotations during each direction

    OR

    sustains a Difficult Pose through at least 3 rotations in one direction and moves through a Change of Pose in the other direction

    AND

    Lifting partner moves through at least 3 rotations in each direction
    Or you can do

    OPTION 2
    Lifting partner in One Hand/Arm Lift through at least 2 rotations in each direction and moves through at least 5 rotations in total
    Or else

    OPTION 3
    In one direction: Lifting partner in One Hand/Arm Lift through at least 3 rotations

    In other direction: Lifted partner sustains a Difficult Pose through at least 3 rotations or moves through a Change of Pose

    AND

    Lifting partner moves through 3 rotations
    And finally


    LEVEL FOUR

    OPTION 1.a)
    Requirements for Level 3 Option 1 or for Level 3 Option 3

    AND

    Creative/Difficult Entry
    OR

    OPTION 1.b)
    Lifted partner moves through a Change of Pose in each direction

    AND

    Lifting partner moves through at least 3 rotations in each direction
    OR

    OPTION 2
    Requirements for Level 3 Option 2

    AND

    Only One Hand/Arm Lift is used to lift, hold and set down the lifted partner (an additional mean of support during change of direction may be used
    And the requirements about one armed lifts in apply in long lifts as well as in short lifts:

    Only One Hand/Arm Lift is used to lift, hold and set down the lifted partner, and
    �� the lifting partner is on one foot for at least one rotation;
    �� and/or the lifting partner significantly changes the level of his skating legs (knees) with a
    continuous motion;
    �� and/or the lifting partner’s holding arm is fully extended in front with a significant distance
    between partners.
    Notes:
    �� if performed as the first part of a Combination Lift, the setting down in One Hand/Arm Lift
    requirement does not apply;
    �� if performed as the second part of a Combination Lift, the lifting in One Hand/Arm Lift
    requirement does not apply.

    So if the whole reverse rotational lift is done with one arm, then the position of the lifted partner is "difficult", by definition.


    I only found one team doing a reverse rotational lift in Seniors this year.

    Heekin-Canedy & Dun UKR 2012 Notre Dame de Paris Free Dance at Worlds RRoLi4 (WORLDS) 8.71
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ItE61...tailpage#t=68s

    They used a one arm Lift in both directions, with one arm being used in the lift, the hold, and the setdown. (LEVEL 4, OPTION 2), and yes they easily have more than the minimum two revolutions in each direction and at least 5 rotations total. And, if you look, you will see that he briefly uses his other arm to assist in the change of direction. Also, because it is all done with one hand, as we learned above, her position is by definition, difficult.

    Because there were no other reverse rotational lifts this season, I'm going to share some past notable reverse rotational lifts (in the earlier years, I'm sharing lifts notable for being done by really good teams, and in the later years, notable for being done at all, by any teams. Remember that the rules about what was involved in Level 4 may have been different back at the beginning of the IJS, so do not blame the technical panel if the lifts would not qualify for level 4 under today's rules:



    2005 Navka & Kostomarov RUS in their Tosca Free Dance at Worlds
    RRoLi4
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iufwG...tailpage#t=89s

    I love her change of position in the second part of the lift! However, I don't see how this would qualify for level 4 in this year's rules. They have 3 or more rotations in each of the two directions. I don't see how her stag position in the first lift would qualify as 'difficult'. The entry isn't difficult either. She has a change of position in the second part, and enough total rotations to qualify for level 2. If you give her the 'difficult' position for the stag lift, then it would qualify as Level 3, option 1, and without a difficult entry, since there is no change of pose in the first section, they would be stuck with level 3 at best, in my opinion, if I am reading all these requirements correctly.

    2006 Dubreuil & Lauzon CAN FD Somewhere in Time, performed at Worlds- this is an amazing lift in every respect.
    RRoLi4
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...pn0UNto#t=173s

    There is no change of pose. And she has the same difficult position in both halves of the lift, so Level 3 option 1 does not work.

    Although Patrice uses one arm throughout the lift, he does use the other in the set down and the entry.

    The fact that both rotations are one armed qualifies for Level 3, Option 2, but because he does nota two armed entry and exit, they can't get level 4 through Option 2. So they would earn Level 3 today.



    2006 Drobiazko & Vanagas FD Phantom of the OperaRRoLi4
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ldTE2...ailpage#t=234s

    there are 3 or more rotations in each direction. In one direction, Albena has a change of position, and the other direction she has a difficult position. This qualifies for Level 3 Option 1. The entry isn't difficult. And there is a change of pose in only one direction, so again Level 4 doesn't work.


    2006 Davis & White FD Prayer in the Night (their final year in Juniors)
    RRoLi4
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...D9PIVFI#t=200s
    She does changes of pose in the first section, there are more than 3 rotations in each section. The 2006 rules were clearly different.



    2008 Domnina & Shabalin Europeans in their Masquerade Waltz FD, RRoLi4
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1JcB...ailpage#t=245s

    One direction, she's in a Biellmann, in the other a doughnut. They have plenty of rotations. The entry isn't difficult.

    2008 Fraser & Lukanin AZE, their Time To Say Goodbye FD, performed at Worlds, RRoLi4 6.61


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yVPNA...ailpage#t=263s

    She's in a split in one direction, a hair-cutter in the other. There are plenty of rotations. However, the entry isn't difficult. Apparently that requirement was added after 2008.



    2008 Navarro & Bommentre USA at Worlds in their "Since I've Been Loving You" RRoLi4 7.11

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QmMIM...ailpage#t=216s

    Nice one hand lift, over 3 rotations in second sections. He picks her up and sets her down with one hand. This would still be level 4.


    2010 Hoffman & Zavozin HUN , in their performance in their FD at Worlds to "So Excited", "Hush Hush", & "Rock This Party", by the Pussycat Dolls 8.50
    RRoLi4
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWbfq...tailpage#t=57s

    She has changes of pose in one direction, a difficult pose in the other, and he picks her up with one arm when she is already in the difficult position, which makes it a difficult entry.This is a very complex, but unappealing lift. Level 4.

    It seems fairly straight forward, but it isn't, entirely. There are a number of questions one could ask about lifts, and that will be the subject of my next posts-a wrap up, and a discussion of questions that federations, coaches, and technical panels asked.
    Last edited by dorispulaski; 05-22-2012 at 06:34 AM.

  11. #41
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    Finishing up Lifts; on to Spins

    This will be my final post in this thread, unless someone else asks a question or makes some comments. I will be starting a new thread on spins, probably later this week. This thread will be moving to the Reference section of the Lutz Corner after it falls off the front page. However, before I go, just for completeness, there are a couple more things to cover about lifts.

    1. When are they illegal?

    2. Questions


    ISU Judging System: Handbook for Technical Panels, Ice Dance, July 15, 2011

    http://www.sportcentric.com/vsite/vf...-0-file,00.pdf


    Questions and Answer for Lifts on Page 46

    ISU Judging System: Handbook for Referees and Judges, Ice Dance, July 15, 2011

    http://www.sportcentric.com/vsite/vf...-0-file,00.pdf

    One more list of things about lifts: there are a number of things that are illegal in lifts, and which will result in either a deduction or in having the entire lift declared an illegal element. This list is from the Judges Handbook:

    ILLEGAL ELEMENTS• Movements and/or poses in the Lifts:
    - Lifting hand(s) of the lifting partner higher than his head*;
    - Lying or sitting on the partner’s head;
    - Sitting or standing on the partner’s shoulder, back;
    - Lifting partner swinging the lifted partner around by holding the skate(s)/boot(s) or leg(s) only with fully extended arm(s) or by holding the hand(s)
    with full arm extension by both partners;
    - Lifted partner in established upside down split pose (with sustained angle between thighs more than 45 degrees)**;


    *It is NOT considered as an illegal lift if:
    - the point of contact of the lifting hand/arm of the lifting partner with any part of the body of the lifted partner is not sustained higher than the lifting partner’s head;
    - the lifting hand/arm which is used for support or balancing only or which touches any part of the body of the lifted partner is not
    sustained by the lifting partner higher than his head for more than 2 seconds.
    **A brief movement through an upside down split pose (with any angle between thighs) will be permitted if it is not established (sustained) or if it is
    used only to change pose.


    The Technical Controller authorizes or corrects if there is an illegal movement during the execution of any element, the deduction for an illegal movement [-2.0 points] will apply, and the element will receive Level 1 if the requirements for at least Level 1 are fulfilled. Otherwise the element will be called No Level. However, if both Technical Specialists disagree with a correction on illegal elements asked for by the Technical Controller, the initial decision of the Technical Specialist and Assistant Technical Specialist stands.
    Additionally, it is no longer legal to use part of the costume for the lifting partner to use as a 'handle' by which to pick up the lifted partner. This restriction was added after Domnina and Shabalin used straps on her costume to facilitate lifts in 2010.

    And finally, a selection of questions from the Technical Handbook, that I found interesting.




    When the requirements for a Level are “Difficult Pose for lifted partner” and “Difficult Position forlifting partner” (sustained for at least 3 seconds), do the Difficult Pose and Position have to be achieved by both partners simultaneously (exactly at the same time)?

    The Difficult Pose and the Difficult Position must be performed at the same time for both partners for at least 3 seconds. However, the difficult Pose and Position do not necessarily have to be achieved or completed at the same time (e.g. man may establish Crouch position before lady achieves doughnut pose. They then hold these pose and position for 3 seconds. Then the man leaves the Crouch followed by the lady releasing the doughnut).



    Can a Difficult Pose/Position be considered for Level when repeated by the other partner (e.g. man does a Lift in Crouch position and then lady does next Lift, as a lifting partner, in the same position)?

    No. Since the examples of Difficult Poses/Positions are for lifted/lifting partner and not for a man or a lady.

    Suppose a team chose one or more of the following:

    * a Difficult Pose,
    * a Difficult Position
    * a Creative/Difficult Entry of type a), c) or d) (“unexpected entry”, “from a difficult transition”, “significant transitional movement”),
    * a Creative/Difficult Entry from Group b) (“from a Difficult Position”),

    if they perform one of the above in a Lift, if it is not relevant to determine the Level of the lift, or it is not given credit for
    whatever reason, if it is repeated in a subsequent Lift, can this chosen feature be considered for Level?

    No. When it is repeated, the chosen feature will be ignored and the Level will be determined accordingly. According to "additional definitions", such a chosen feature shall be considered for Level only “the first time it occurs” / “in the Dance Lift where it is first performed”.

    A pose forming part of a Change of Pose in a Lift, is repeated in the other part of this Lift (in case of a Long Lift) or in another (short) Lift. When repeated, can this pose be considered as a Difficult Pose for Level?

    Yes. Because the lifted partner’s feature of the first Lift was not a pose, but a Change of Pose.


    If a lifted partner is in Biellmann pose with the entire body in any other position than upright (e.g. the lifted partner is held horizontally, parallel to the ice), is this pose considered for Level as a Difficult Pose?

    Yes, if the requirements for this Difficult Pose are fulfilled (i.e. the heel of the boot is pulled by the hand behind and above the level of the head, in relation to the vertical line of the body. This pose in its "upside down version" may be illegal.
    [Note that Domnina & Shabalin, in their Masquerade Waltz FD in 2008, did just such a reverse rotational lift and got credit.]


    In One Hand/Arm Lift, must the lifting arm of the lifting partner be straight?

    No. The lifting partner’s biceps/upper arm may touch his own body but the lifted partner must not touch the lifting partner at any other point than his hand/arm.
    In a One Hand/Arm Lift, the lifting partner swings the lifted partner around by holding her only by her leg. Is this movement always considered as an Illegal Movement?

    It is considered illegal if the lifting partner's arm is fully extended and he is swinging her around. If his arm is bent, then the Lift is legal.
    These would be the reasons why I couldn't find any team relying on the "entry from two difficult turns" option


    If a couple performs an entry “from a difficult transition”, how close to the actual Lift the difficult Turns should be performed to consider this entry as a Creative/Difficult Entry?

    The Lift has to be executed immediately after the difficult Turns, without any preparation and interruption in the pace of execution.

    If a couple performs an entry “from a difficult transition”, have the Turns to be executed as precise as Difficult Turns of a Step Sequence to consider this entry as a Creative/Difficult Entry?

    Yes. The Turns have to be skated on distinct and recognizable Edges and in accordance with the description in Rule 604.

    Is a Double Three itself enough to be called a “difficult transition” and a Creative/Difficult Entry?

    No. A Double Three (either in hold or not touching) is considered as one difficult Turn only if it is part of a series forming a “difficult transition”.
    Clearly, this is quite a bit less risky:


    If the lifting partner uses an “entry from a Difficult Position” as a Creative/Difficult Entry and a Difficult Position during the Lift, do the Difficult Positions have to be different or same to be given credit by the Technical Panel?

    The Difficult Position used as a Creative/Difficult Entry and the Difficult Position used during the Lift are given credit, whether they are same or different.
    If the lifting partner uses an entry “from a Difficult Position” as a Creative/Difficult Entry, how long does he have to be in the Difficult Position in order to get credit for a Creative/Difficult Entry?

    There is no set time for the Difficult Position for the lifting partner in order to get credit for a Creative/Difficult Entry. However, the position must be fully established and clearly evident at the time the lift takes off.
    This is good to know:

    In a Rotational Lift or Reverse Rotational Lift, if the lifted partner enters (or exits) a One Hand/Arm Lift by jumping into (or from) the arm of the lifting partner, can this entry (or exit) be considered as “only One Hand/Arm lift is used to lift (or set down)”?

    Yes. Because there is no contact at all between partners.The jump must not be of more than 1 rotation otherwise it is an Illegal Movement.
    And this clarification makes it clear the pitfalls of doing a combination lift:

    In a Combination Lift, if the second Lift meets all criteria for Level 3, and includes a “significant transitional movement by the lifted partners to reach the desired pose” does the Technical Panel take it into consideration to upgrade this second Lift to Level 4?

    No. Upgrading to Level 4 can only come from the Creative/Difficult Entry of the first Lift or the inclusion of a One Hand/Arm Rotational Lift Extra Feature in case of a Rotational Lift Option 2.
    It's interesting how the upgrade by a difficult entry works:

    If the first part of a Combination Lift is Level 2 and the second part is Level 3, and a Creative/Difficult Entry is used in the first part of the Combination Lift, is the second part of this Combination Lift upgraded to Level 4?

    Yes, except if the second part is a Rotational Lift Option 2 Level 3 which needs a One Hand/Arm Rotational Lift Extra Feature to be upgraded to Level 4. The first part of the Combo Lift remains at Level 2.
    The first part stays at level two, because to get level 4, the requirements for level 3 must be met.

    It's also interesting that it only requires three rotations by the lifting partner to get level 4 in a stationary lift:


    In a Stationary Lift, the man enters on one foot and then rotates on the spot in One Hand/Arm Lift position for 3 seconds while rotating. Are there enough features to get Level 4?

    Yes, because the Lift includes:

    * Difficult Position for the lifting partner (“One Hand/Arm Lift”) for at least 3 seconds,
    * Difficult Pose for the lifted partner (even if not listed as an example, being rotated while held in One Hand/Arm Lift is difficult) for at least 3 seconds,
    * Creative/Difficult Entry (“from a Difficult Position, one foot”, by the lifting partner).
    And this is a general principle about the pitfalls of creative & difficult entry:

    If a couple performs an unexpected entry to the Stationary Lift, but skids to a stop exactly before the Lift, does the Technical Panel still consider this entry as a Creative/Difficult Entry?

    If there is an unexpected entry and a stop before the take off was not done to get evident preparation to the Stationary Lift, credit for
    Creative/Difficult Entry can be given. But if there is an evident preparation before the Lift (after the stop), credit for Creative/Difficult Entry cannot be given.
    The following situation might result if the lifting partner tripped.

    What happens if the lifting partner stops continuous rotation during a Rotational Lift or a direction of a Reverse Rotational Lift (this means the lifting partner rotates for while, stops rotation, and then continues to rotate some more)?

    As long as the lifting partner is traveling and not on the spot, the rotations can continue to be counted. However, the feature for the lifted partner is affected in the following way:

    * if the lifted partner is in a Difficult Pose when the rotation stops, the Level is reduced by one,
    * if the lifted partner is moving though a Change of Pose when the rotation stops, the feature is not considered for Level.

    If the lifting partner stops traveling, the rotations and features are not considered for Level from that point on.
    This sounds unexpected to me too

    The lifted partner enters a Lift with no assistance by the lifting partner (e.g. the lady jumps into the arms of the man with a jump of one revolution maximum). Will the Technical Panel consider this as a Creative/Difficult Entry?

    Yes. The Technical Panel will qualify this entry as “unexpected”.
    So that's it, and I'll be heading on to spins now.

    Here's a link to the new thread.

    http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/sho...148#post644148
    Last edited by dorispulaski; 05-25-2012 at 04:40 AM.

  12. #42
    Moving up the testing structure Kypma's Avatar
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    Wow, Doris, thanks so much for this thread! It definitely was a fascinating read, and thanks for taking the time to do it so well. I'm looking forward to reading the next one!

  13. #43
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    Well first off Doris, BRAVA to the nth. I'm still in awe at how much work you put in, how UNDERSTANDABLE this is. I've been going back to old VCR tapes and looking at old dance competitions and it is like seeing them fresh. I'm making everyone who wants to watch the next Olympics with me read this first. I'm sure they'll enjoy watching so much more when they can see for themselves why lifts are judged the way they are.

    Two questions: when you say "excessive" lifts, what exactly was/is excessive about them? I'm a big fan of COP for Dance (I think it is the one discipline where the change has been pretty much all for the good, with one exception: judging transparency). Do you think COP has solved the issue of "excessive" lifts?

    Again, THANK YOU for this thread. It's a real gift.

  14. #44
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    Well, the ISU seems to make changes about lifts every couple years. I really don't want to see more than 4 lifts in a program, myself, and last year you could have 6 - two transitional lifts and 4 short lifts. This year, you could only have 1 transitional lift, so it's down to 5.

    Because no rule change is permanent, no problem is ever solved in COP, but at least the folks that make the rules seem to have acknowledged that the sport is not just ice lifting

  15. #45
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    This is a wonderful , wonderful reference! Thank you so much.

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