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Thread: Rachael Flatt: Complete Profile

  1. #16
    Custom Title macy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skateluvr View Post
    Olympia, I would say Flatt outskated in all ways Lepisto and Miki was pretty awful. That LP program was dreadful. Morozov didn't help Miki with that number/horrid costume. Mike was really off and Flatt was spot on wonderful. The experts said 5th was their assessment. So yeah, Miki and Lepisto were overmarked while Flatt was pushed aside. Politics maybe with Mirai deserving at least 4th place.
    totally agree. i had never really watched miki before the olys and i thought she was SO boring. i remember thinking, how did that beat rachael? i would have put mirai 4th and rachael 5th or vice versa. rachael had the performance of her life there and was undermarked.
    Last edited by macy; 05-08-2012 at 12:04 AM.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs. P View Post
    I've heard that Rachael is someone who is more appreciated live. If she gets a GP, I'm hoping its Skate America so I can witness this myself. I think her performance ability is reflective of a give-it-all attitude, tied to her competitive spirit.

    Good points regarding the challenges this season.
    Yes. I can assure you that Rachael is one of those skaters who appear MUCH BETTER LIVE than on TV.

    I have only seen her live once, which was the first WTT in Tokyo three years ago. To be honest, her skating was not my cup of tea back then, but she skated much better than I thought she would. The one thing I noticed was she could skate BIG for her height. She skated even more beautifully her EX program which she choreographed herself!

    So, I would say, 'Do not trust people who never see her skate live and still complain she skates s-l-o-w.'

    I agree with others: I donot like it when people tend to criticize skaters for what s/he can not do about; such as features, body types and/or flexibility.

    Rachael's best performances for me are:

    -Short program: 'East of Eden' at 2011 US Nationals, hands down!
    -Free skate: 'Firebird' at 2012 US Nationals. SHE ROCKED!

    On a side note, Evan, Rachael and Caroline Zhang all surprised me at the first WTT, in a good way of course. I always knew Evan was a passionate skater and a fierce competitior, but I never imagined Evan could skate effortlessly, so fluently and so gracefully on the ice until I saw him live. WTT was right after LA Worlds where he won the world title. Evan was well received by the audience with huge standing ovations, and with lots of respect and admiration, as well as Brian, for what they were: the worthy world champions.
    To date, I love and still prefer his 'Rhapsody in Blue' Free performance in LA than his OGM winning program.

  3. #18
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    I might be the only one, but I liked Rachael *less* after seeing her live. Her picking technique on toe jumps looked so weird, like she was twisting her body and it looked really awkward. I don't skate myself so I don't know if it's really considered a technical flaw, but it looked unaesthetic for sure. Rachael with scary jumps was just not the Rachael I'd been expecting. On the plus side, she was more photogenic than I expected; I got quite a few pictures in which she looks lovely, so my prejudice that she had bad posture was somewhat proved wrong.

    I also agree that she never got the programs to match her personality. I saw some galas of her that I liked a lot, so I felt like she had more artistic potential than was seen in her competitive programs.

  4. #19
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    Rachael has one of the most beautiful smiles in skating.

  5. #20
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brightphoton View Post
    Do you know what college Sasha is at right now? Columbia or New York Univeristy or something?
    Quote Originally Posted by skateluvr View Post
    Columbia I heard her say.
    I think she was accepted to both NYU and Columbia and chose to enroll in Columbia. Columbia has a "School of General Studies" that is specifically is designed for returning and non-traditional students. They have a lot of students who are going back to school after a career in the arts. That is the school that Tim Goebel graduated from a few years back, and I believe Evan Lysacek is thinking about applying there. The school also has a lot of internationals students and can accommodate students going part time while they are still involved in full-time work and other activities.

    Quote Originally Posted by Olympia View Post
    Rachael has one of the most beautiful smiles in skating.
    Indded she does. Here she is looking professorial in her tweed jacket.

    http://img.poptower.com/pic-18220/ra...latt.jpg?d=600

  6. #21
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkusNJ View Post
    I for one always loved Rachael. I was really surprised that anyone thought Mirai won the 2010 Nationals, I though Rachael was so much stronger on the jumps, and was a bit annoyed with the commentators when they basically gave it to Mirai. Needless to say, I was happy with the outcome
    Mirai out-perkied Rachael (no mean feat!) and the audience loved Mirai's performance. But in the CoP, you live by the UR, you die by the UR. Mirai received two phantom URs and that was the ballgame.

    I felt she was royally screwed at the Olympics with those random downgrades on her flips that came out of nowhere. I still believe it was totally political.
    I think at the Olympics Rachael was the victim of skate order. In the long program she skated first. The tech panel could not give her high marks because Kim and Asada were yet to skate. It was possible that both of them might have messed up, and then where would we be? So this time it was Rachael's turn for the phantom URs. For the first one, only one of the nine judges gave her negative GOE. Evidently 8 of the 9 did not see anything wrong with the rotation. The second one was more in question. Three judges gave her negative GOE and 6 thought the jump was OK.

    As it turned out, the worry was needless. Kim and Asada both put up scores that set the contest out of reach, and so did Rochette for third. So by the time Mirai skated (last) there was no reason to find something to downgrade because the contest was over anyway. Mirai 4th, Rachael 7th.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    Mirai out-perkied Rachael (no mean feat!) and the audience loved Mirai's performance. But in the CoP, you live by the UR, you die by the UR. Mirai received two phantom URs and that was the ballgame.
    That's not a fair assessment. Mirai did not get phantom URs. Her UR are real.
    http://www.usfigureskating.org/leade...0/SEGM002.html

    6 judges gave her Lutz -GOE. 4 gave it -2 GOE.
    9 judges gave her 3T -GOE. Most gave it -2 GOE.
    In real time, it was URed. In slow mo, it was painfully URed. The next day, Scott and the Canadian cow tried to explain why Mirai got URed and they showed her jumps again and they were UR. Even her flip should be called URed which wasn't. She was very lucky to stay in 2nd.

    I think at the Olympics Rachael was the victim of skate order. In the long program she skated first. The tech panel could not give her high marks because Kim and Asada were yet to skate. It was possible that both of them might have messed up, and then where would we be? So this time it was Rachael's turn for the phantom URs. For the first one, only one of the nine judges gave her negative GOE. Evidently 8 of the 9 did not see anything wrong with the rotation. The second one was more in question. Three judges gave her negative GOE and 6 thought the jump was OK.

    As it turned out, the worry was needless. Kim and Asada both put up scores that set the contest out of reach, and so did Rochette for third. So by the time Mirai skated (last) there was no reason to find something to downgrade because the contest was over anyway. Mirai 4th, Rachael 7th.
    The two flips at the Olympics were phantom URs. Even in slow mo, you can't see it.

  8. #23
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    Rachael is a skater you need to see live to appreciate. I saw her live at 2012 Nat. Very happy for her. She was not even at her peak and it was so good. Can't imagine how it great it would be at 2010 Nat or at the Olympics.

  9. #24
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    At 2011 Nationals, her SP to East of Eden was awesome . It was my favorite ladies' program of the competition.

    She is definitely someone you need to see live to appreciate.

    I think it is because her shortcomings are the kind that are more visible on TV (the strange spin position, the wiggle before the lutz), and her strengths are the kind that are more apparent in person - personality, and strangely enough, she is smoother and faster in person but it is so.

    I hope she'll compete longer!

    This year's Firebird LP was a highlight even on TV for me.

  10. #25
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    Rachael's joy in her 2012 FS was beautiful to see, especially compared to Alissa's tense, tentative performance and Mirai's deadpan, no-energy one.

  11. #26
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlattFan View Post
    That's not a fair assessment. Mirai did not get phantom URs. Her UR are real.
    http://www.usfigureskating.org/leade...0/SEGM002.html

    6 judges gave her Lutz -GOE. 4 gave it -2 GOE.
    9 judges gave her 3T -GOE. Most gave it -2 GOE.
    In real time, it was URed. In slow mo, it was painfully URed. The next day, Scott and the Canadian cow tried to explain why Mirai got URed and they showed her jumps again and they were UR. Even her flip should be called URed which wasn't. She was very lucky to stay in 2nd.
    I guess so. Still, the tech panel was pretty strict with Mirai. They also gave her an edge warning on her first Lutz (IMHO no worse a flutz than anyone else's -- only three judges gave negative GOE), and a downgrade on her first combo (two judges gave negative GOE). Mirai has a quick little hook on her jump landings which does a good job of hiding under-rotations. To me, watching in real time, only the solo triple toe at the end was clearly and visibly short.

    Plus, Mirai should have got an extra bonus for music selection. Why would any skater ever skate to anything besides Carmen? With the first note the audience starts to smile.

    I am not so terribly impressed when they push Scott Hamilton out afterward for damage control. He seemed embarrassed, and rightly so. He was stuck saying, no, you foolish people, Mirai's performance wasn't wonderful after all (like I thought yesterday, seeing it just like you before my very eyes). When you see it in slow motion you can see some flaws. And that's why the judges and the skating establishment are right, and all you sillies in the audience are wrong to like what you like.

    Anyway, on this Rachael thread, Rachael was excellent at 2010 Nationals. She deserved to win, and she did.

    She deserved fourth at the Olympics, maybe fifth, and she didn't get it. I guess that's skating.
    Last edited by Mathman; 05-08-2012 at 04:12 PM.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    I am not so terribly impressed when they push Scott Hamilton out afterward for damage control. He seemed embarrassed, and rightly so. He was stuck saying, no, you foolish people, Mirai's performance wasn't wonderful after all (like I thought yesterday, seeing it just like you before my very eyes). When you see it in slow motion you can see some flaws. And that's why the judges and the skating establishment are right, and all you sillies in the audience are wrong to like what you like.
    You make it sound as though USFS was so embarrassed at the results they told Hamilton to go back on TV and explain the results better.

    Any reason to believe that was the case? Isn't it the network, not the federation, that pushes Scott Hamilton out afterward for damage control -- to control the "damage" that he created in the first place with overenthusiastic untechnical commentary?

    In the second place, no one is telling us we're wrong to like what we like. It's just that what we enjoy while watching uncritically for aesthetic reasons may not always match what the technical criteria of the sport. That's nothing new.

    The results tell us that underrotated jumps are worth less than fully rotated jumps (by 2010 rules, quite a bit lower point value for only slightly less rotation -- the addition of the "underrotated" vs. "downgraded" call as of 2010-11 season could be considered damage control to mitigate that overpenalization).

    The figure skating establishment never claimed that whoever the audience likes best deserves to win regardless of technical details. If the network producers and commentators choose to give that impression to try to get audiences emotionally involved, and then it backfires when technical details end up trumping likability, that's the network's mess. Same as if, for example, a tennis commentator overlooked a charismatic player's serve going out of bounds because they were so busy promoting the player's personality.

    Regardless of how strict the technical rules are or what particular technical skills -- or presentation skills, for that matter -- are most favored by that year's rules and guidelines, there will be times when the commentators and audiences and often a minority of the judging panel will prefer one skater but the majority on the panel prefer a different one. As long as they're evaluating the skaters according to the established rules and what they actually see out there on the ice, they're not wrong. But if you prefer a skater who didn't have everything that that panel was looking to reward, that doesn't make your preference wrong. It just means you didn't agree with the consensus of this panel.

    Heck, under IJS a majority of the judging panel could prefer skater A enough on PCS criteria to believe skater A deserves to win, but the way the technical calls and the base values and GOEs work out gives the win to skater B. If that consistently happens in the same direction and the judges and other officials agree with audiences and skaters and coaches that the wrong people are winning because quads aren't valued enough or clean programs aren't valued enough, or well-controlled almost-rotated jumps aren't valued enough, etc., then the rules will change to try to change that trend.

    That would be an example of the ISU (or national federation, for rules that apply only domestically) doing damage control.

  13. #28
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    I am not blaming anyone. Just observing that Scott Hamilton looked like a politician's campaign manager who has to come out and spin away his candidate's gaff. I think the audience has a right to say, phooey on you, Scott. Yesterday you were all Mirai! Mirai! Mirai! and today you are back-peddling. Who got to you?

    The audience knows that a skater doesn't really get a "Carmen bonus." But it's fun to pretend that she should.

  14. #29
    I like pie. Tonichelle's Avatar
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    I think Scott watches and commentates in the moment much like a fan does - because there are obvious things he likes to see in skating... just like every skater.

    Then when he realizes that that's not what is working here he has to back peddle. Because NBC doesn't know jack about the sport, the director is not giving their people direction. If I were calling the shots as producer/director I'd be reigning Scott in a bit (I'd also have Terry Gannon on full time, because Terry is a pro at getting the others to commentate correctly and not completely fangirl the moment away). However, Scott's response and then comeback later is actually a very GOOD way of commentary - and the norm for most of the big sports. The technical analysis always comes after the play/game is completed... and the commentators don't always agree with the calls in the moment - and maybe not even during the technical explanation is given... they're just giving both sides.

    NFL commentators aren't much different than Scott in their delivery.

  15. #30
    Custom Title heyang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skateluvr

    I disagree with most of this, but esp. comparing Sarah Hughes to Rachael. Sarah had the ability to skate beautiful programs, and at 16 was still a colt. We did not see her mature in the sport but her 2002 Oly skate was amazing. I do not know about correct edges and rotations counted in CoP but it was a great skate, better than Irina and far better than Kwan. She deserved the gold and she was on the cover of Time. Sasha was amazing in her SP and undermarked as the newcomer. Hughes rise was rapid and meteoric. She could have continued had she wanted to sacrifice, and get thru her growth spurt. I think Sarah Hughes was a fiery competitor who could probably run for President. She was amazing, and like Tara, gone way too soon from competition. Michelle would have had a much tougher road had those two stayed in, or been able to in Tara's case. Sarah competed well after SLC but she did not have the time to keep her level really high.

    Maria Butyrskaya was a lousy jumper with limited skills who "willed herself" (Bezic) to do things. She was lucky to have 1 good skate at 99 Worlds when others faltered.

    I agree young Mirai was a great performer who has not been performing at all thispast season. Alissa is not a great performer. Ashley has it all now-fight and jumps and style. You were not impresed with her showing this year? Alissa is a very introverted beauty with everything who rarely pulls it anywhere near together. She needs some upbeat programs. I hope her last season is upbeat without dronal piano music.

    Hughes and Lipinski get forgotten. Meteors that won the big prize then moved on. MK would have done the same thing, but...

    Rachael was wonderful in Vancouver, great SP and flawless long-she was screwed-fifth place was fair, not seventh. We have likely seen her best, I've said before as Stanford is so challenging. I think too she can be happy to move on, having accomplished quite a bit as a skater.
    You're reading things into my post that I didn't mention.

    I said that both were recognized as consistent skaters, but not recognized as great showmen. When both were at their peaks, they were reliable, very few people commented that they were 'moved' by their performances. I never said that Sarah couldn't do beautiful programs - she definitely deserved her marks at the Olympics. Her LP was definitely the best of the night. As disappointed as I was that Kwan didn't win, I never said that Sarah didn't deserve gold in that competition.

    I don't think Sarah had the desire to continue after winning the Olympics. She definitely wasn't ready the following season and when she did tour with SOI for a season, the reviews were not good. Again, not saying that she wasn't capable, but her heart no longer seemed with skating after winning the Olympics. She was ready to drop skating and put her efforts into college. She certainly shouldn't be expected to give up college for skating and vice versa.

    You are assuming Tara's trajectory. She gave up skating because of her hip problems. It's highly doubtful that she could've compete for another 4 years without having surgery. Michelle herself suffered injury because of pursuing a competitive career for so long. We can't change what has already occurred.

    I also never said that I wasn't impressed by Ashley this year. She's proven that she can fight and win this year. Is she someone I would pay to see? She hasn't won me over that much, but not many have. The only skaters that I've been willing to go to great effort to see have been Michele Kwan, Torvill and Dean, Shen & Zhao, Kristi Yamaguchi and Brian Boitano - and the Sergei Grinkov memorial show in Hartford , CT I only regret not making the effort to see Katia and Sergei skate together live.

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